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JMU_Rocks! Offline
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Post: #1
Chemistry
It seems like there is a pretty significant rift between the the JMU fan base and also within the football team.

For the fans - the shakeup with Withers, the possibility of an FBS move, and the best potential opportunity seem to create some passionate advocates.

For the team, it seems like there is an old guard / new guard mentality. There seems to be some backlash against the emphasis on transfers and freshman.

I sat next to a guy at the game yesterday - who was down on the Dukes D from the first snap. With every play ending in a 'we suck'. Then on offense, he would alternate cheering or rooting against players.

Turns out - he was a D-lineman last year and is not this year. He shared that players hated playing for Withers and that we're quickly finding out the transfers were not all that. I offered that I heard much the same said of Mickey's relationship with players and he did not disagree.

Change has happened. It seems to me like we as fans and the players need to focus on some common goals (winning, succeeding in the class room, and getting better). Dukes win together and lose together.

Go Dukes!
09-14-2014 03:44 PM
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DoubleDDuke Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Chemistry
I wouldn't put too much into it. Guys who ride the bench always hate the coach. That's been happening since the beginning of sports. Guys will love playing for Withers if he can make them successful. You have to realize these guys are so young, they'r'e going to hate discipline at this point in their lives but will look back on it and say "He was right, I was so dumb at the time". I'm not on the inside or anything, but Withers' demeanor on the sidelines is one of a lot of encouragement. I see him being really positive with the players whereas Mickey would just ream guys out. Either way, you're a football player, not a band member. Grow some.
09-14-2014 04:14 PM
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JMU2014 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Chemistry
I like that Withers is allowing freshmen and transfers to immediately compete for playing time, and then actually play. This isn't the 1960's where you have to sit on the bench for a few years and then you've "earned" your playing time. The best 11 guys on offense and the best 11 guys on defense should start, no matter what class they are. If some of the older guys don't like that, then tough luck. Get better.

Changes like this aren't easy, especially for the players who played for a few years under the old coach. This year will probably be filled with growing pains but I think we're in pretty good hands under Withers.
09-14-2014 04:36 PM
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Madison 91 Forever Offline
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Post: #4
Chemistry
Agreed with the previous post. I liked Mickey but it was clearly time to move on. Withers brooks no bullcrap and is the new regime, and the old regime doesn't like it. No surprise.

Oh, and BTW, for all the carping since last season we just drew 23,500 fans to watch us play ... St. Francis. To paraphrase Mark Twain, the reports of the program's death were greatly exaggerated.


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09-14-2014 04:39 PM
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DoubleDDuke Offline
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RE: Chemistry
Yes but we always get good attendance with good weather. We literally have fair weather fans. If the temperature drops below 70 degrees people stop showing up. Homecoming and Parents weekend help.
09-14-2014 04:42 PM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Chemistry
(09-14-2014 04:42 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  Yes but we always get good attendance with good weather. We literally have fair weather fans. If the temperature drops below 70 degrees people stop showing up. Homecoming and Parents weekend help.

What good weather? Did you miss the rain that was in Harrisonburg until about 2pm, with clouds covering up the sun until just before kickoff?

O yeah, that's right. You don't go to games.

I was very happy with 23.5k with a bad weather day, a who cares opponent and a .500 record. Our fans are awesome and yes.... the demise of JMU football have been greatly exaggerated.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2014 05:03 PM by Potomac.)
09-14-2014 05:02 PM
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DoubleDDuke Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Chemistry
I've got a lot of obligations on weekends these days. I'll tell you the truth - I've given a lot of money and I'm not spending an entire day on St. Francis. That's not what I'm looking for. So while I could probably blow a bunch of stuff off, it does not seem worth the round trip.

I spent hours on the phone giving my feedback after the Carr report in quite a bit of detail and there's just no action. You can't knock me for not planning my weekend around that. I still carved out the time to watch the entire game which wasn't easy.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2014 05:13 PM by DoubleDDuke.)
09-14-2014 05:08 PM
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NYJMUPIKE Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Chemistry
(09-14-2014 05:02 PM)Potomac Wrote:  What good weather? Did you miss the rain that was in Harrisonburg until about 2pm, with clouds covering up the sun until just before kickoff?

I was very happy with 23.5k with a bad weather day, a who cares opponent and a .500 record. Our fans are awesome and yes.... the demise of JMU football have been greatly exaggerated.

Thanks for posting attendance. I was definitely wondering how the crowd would be with the forecast for rain in Virginia. Since the game was close, how was the crowd in the 2nd half?

I will not be able to go to any regular season home games this year. I'm hoping for a first round playoff game this year, as my schedule would allow a trip down to the burg 04-cheers
09-14-2014 06:37 PM
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Potomac Offline
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RE: Chemistry
(09-14-2014 06:37 PM)NYJMUPIKE Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 05:02 PM)Potomac Wrote:  What good weather? Did you miss the rain that was in Harrisonburg until about 2pm, with clouds covering up the sun until just before kickoff?

I was very happy with 23.5k with a bad weather day, a who cares opponent and a .500 record. Our fans are awesome and yes.... the demise of JMU football have been greatly exaggerated.

Thanks for posting attendance. I was definitely wondering how the crowd would be with the forecast for rain in Virginia. Since the game was close, how was the crowd in the 2nd half?

I will not be able to go to any regular season home games this year. I'm hoping for a first round playoff game this year, as my schedule would allow a trip down to the burg 04-cheers

It was the typical student exodus at halftime. Half of them left at the half, another quarter left at the end of the 3rd. Same thing every year, every game. We're a party school and we just can't keep their attention for 3.5 hours. I'm just happy they're there in the first place.
There's been an exodus of paying fans too, but it seemed less than in previous games.
Overall, it was a breath of fresh air from the crap crowds last season. I'm sure the new coach is the main reason. I'm curious to see how it holds up as the year goes on. We're probably going to have to fight just to get a 4-4 conference record this year. 7-5 or 6-6 is realistic at this point.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2014 07:22 PM by Potomac.)
09-14-2014 07:21 PM
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Dogs of Dukes Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Chemistry
(09-14-2014 03:44 PM)JMU_Rocks! Wrote:  It seems like there is a pretty significant rift between the the JMU fan base and also within the football team.

For the fans - the shakeup with Withers, the possibility of an FBS move, and the best potential opportunity seem to create some passionate advocates.

For the team, it seems like there is an old guard / new guard mentality. There seems to be some backlash against the emphasis on transfers and freshman.

I sat next to a guy at the game yesterday - who was down on the Dukes D from the first snap. With every play ending in a 'we suck'. Then on offense, he would alternate cheering or rooting against players.

Turns out - he was a D-lineman last year and is not this year. He shared that players hated playing for Withers and that we're quickly finding out the transfers were not all that. I offered that I heard much the same said of Mickey's relationship with players and he did not disagree.

Change has happened. It seems to me like we as fans and the players need to focus on some common goals (winning, succeeding in the class room, and getting better). Dukes win together and lose together.

Go Dukes!

Players I have spoken to say there is some dissension within the team that goes beyond accepting the changes that are inevitable with a new coaching staff. Especially on the O line there is some resentment about transfers and how they were anointed starters even though their level of performance in practice was not better than existing players. You are now starting to see legacy lineman like Cunningham, a former starter, get more reps because a transfer lineman has not played well.

There also seems to be a problem with the maturity level of some of the assistant coaches. They are young with relatively limited experience and instead of better relating to players they seem to be overly critical and almost abusive in practice. Some of the criticism of players in the press after the Maryland game demonstrated this. Experienced assistant coaches would never do this.

From what I have been told the O line coach is close to losing his group. His up and down emotional coaching style has turned off the players. A good coach can push his players hard physically and mentally, but he must be a motivator who actually makes his players better. Not sure this is happening.

It will be interesting to see the coaches reactions if JMU take a beating from Villanova next week.
09-15-2014 07:23 AM
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JMU2004 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Chemistry
(09-15-2014 07:23 AM)Dogs of Dukes Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 03:44 PM)JMU_Rocks! Wrote:  It seems like there is a pretty significant rift between the the JMU fan base and also within the football team.

For the fans - the shakeup with Withers, the possibility of an FBS move, and the best potential opportunity seem to create some passionate advocates.

For the team, it seems like there is an old guard / new guard mentality. There seems to be some backlash against the emphasis on transfers and freshman.

I sat next to a guy at the game yesterday - who was down on the Dukes D from the first snap. With every play ending in a 'we suck'. Then on offense, he would alternate cheering or rooting against players.

Turns out - he was a D-lineman last year and is not this year. He shared that players hated playing for Withers and that we're quickly finding out the transfers were not all that. I offered that I heard much the same said of Mickey's relationship with players and he did not disagree.

Change has happened. It seems to me like we as fans and the players need to focus on some common goals (winning, succeeding in the class room, and getting better). Dukes win together and lose together.

Go Dukes!

Players I have spoken to say there is some dissension within the team that goes beyond accepting the changes that are inevitable with a new coaching staff. Especially on the O line there is some resentment about transfers and how they were anointed starters even though their level of performance in practice was not better than existing players. You are now starting to see legacy lineman like Cunningham, a former starter, get more reps because a transfer lineman has not played well.

There also seems to be a problem with the maturity level of some of the assistant coaches. They are young with relatively limited experience and instead of better relating to players they seem to be overly critical and almost abusive in practice. Some of the criticism of players in the press after the Maryland game demonstrated this. Experienced assistant coaches would never do this.

From what I have been told the O line coach is close to losing his group. His up and down emotional coaching style has turned off the players. A good coach can push his players hard physically and mentally, but he must be a motivator who actually makes his players better. Not sure this is happening.

It will be interesting to see the coaches reactions if JMU take a beating from Villanova next week.

The OL coach played at Oklahoma and produced huge numbers at Portland State. If the current OL players resent him, they should look in the damned mirror and toughen up. If jobs were handed to Bolden and Appel (which I find hard to believe), then that is screwed up. My guess is that Wither's likes Bolden's youth and upside. No clue about Appel.

Sick and tired of hearing how JMU players have it so rough. They would have been shocked at how MM practiced when he got the job in 1999. Back then, MM's fuse was incredibly short. I remember being able to hear MM from Showker during stadium practices.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2014 08:27 AM by JMU2004.)
09-15-2014 08:20 AM
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RE: Chemistry
(09-15-2014 08:20 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 07:23 AM)Dogs of Dukes Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 03:44 PM)JMU_Rocks! Wrote:  It seems like there is a pretty significant rift between the the JMU fan base and also within the football team.

For the fans - the shakeup with Withers, the possibility of an FBS move, and the best potential opportunity seem to create some passionate advocates.

For the team, it seems like there is an old guard / new guard mentality. There seems to be some backlash against the emphasis on transfers and freshman.

I sat next to a guy at the game yesterday - who was down on the Dukes D from the first snap. With every play ending in a 'we suck'. Then on offense, he would alternate cheering or rooting against players.

Turns out - he was a D-lineman last year and is not this year. He shared that players hated playing for Withers and that we're quickly finding out the transfers were not all that. I offered that I heard much the same said of Mickey's relationship with players and he did not disagree.

Change has happened. It seems to me like we as fans and the players need to focus on some common goals (winning, succeeding in the class room, and getting better). Dukes win together and lose together.

Go Dukes!

Players I have spoken to say there is some dissension within the team that goes beyond accepting the changes that are inevitable with a new coaching staff. Especially on the O line there is some resentment about transfers and how they were anointed starters even though their level of performance in practice was not better than existing players. You are now starting to see legacy lineman like Cunningham, a former starter, get more reps because a transfer lineman has not played well.

There also seems to be a problem with the maturity level of some of the assistant coaches. They are young with relatively limited experience and instead of better relating to players they seem to be overly critical and almost abusive in practice. Some of the criticism of players in the press after the Maryland game demonstrated this. Experienced assistant coaches would never do this.

From what I have been told the O line coach is close to losing his group. His up and down emotional coaching style has turned off the players. A good coach can push his players hard physically and mentally, but he must be a motivator who actually makes his players better. Not sure this is happening.

It will be interesting to see the coaches reactions if JMU take a beating from Villanova next week.

The OL coach played at Oklahoma and produced huge numbers at Portland State. If the current OL players resent him, they should look in the damned mirror and toughen up. If jobs were handed to Bolden and Appel (which I find hard to believe), then that is screwed up. My guess is that Wither's likes Bolden's youth and upside. No clue about Appel.

Sick and tired of hearing how JMU players have it so rough. They would have been shocked at how MM practiced when he got the job in 1999. Back then, MM's fuse was incredibly short. I remember being able to hear MM from Showker during stadium practices.

Things ain't what they used to be and probably never was.
- Will Rogers)
09-15-2014 08:33 AM
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Post: #13
RE: Chemistry
(09-15-2014 07:23 AM)Dogs of Dukes Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 03:44 PM)JMU_Rocks! Wrote:  It seems like there is a pretty significant rift between the the JMU fan base and also within the football team.

For the fans - the shakeup with Withers, the possibility of an FBS move, and the best potential opportunity seem to create some passionate advocates.

For the team, it seems like there is an old guard / new guard mentality. There seems to be some backlash against the emphasis on transfers and freshman.

I sat next to a guy at the game yesterday - who was down on the Dukes D from the first snap. With every play ending in a 'we suck'. Then on offense, he would alternate cheering or rooting against players.

Turns out - he was a D-lineman last year and is not this year. He shared that players hated playing for Withers and that we're quickly finding out the transfers were not all that. I offered that I heard much the same said of Mickey's relationship with players and he did not disagree.

Change has happened. It seems to me like we as fans and the players need to focus on some common goals (winning, succeeding in the class room, and getting better). Dukes win together and lose together.

Go Dukes!

Players I have spoken to say there is some dissension within the team that goes beyond accepting the changes that are inevitable with a new coaching staff. Especially on the O line there is some resentment about transfers and how they were anointed starters even though their level of performance in practice was not better than existing players. You are now starting to see legacy lineman like Cunningham, a former starter, get more reps because a transfer lineman has not played well.

There also seems to be a problem with the maturity level of some of the assistant coaches. They are young with relatively limited experience and instead of better relating to players they seem to be overly critical and almost abusive in practice. Some of the criticism of players in the press after the Maryland game demonstrated this. Experienced assistant coaches would never do this.

From what I have been told the O line coach is close to losing his group. His up and down emotional coaching style has turned off the players. A good coach can push his players hard physically and mentally, but he must be a motivator who actually makes his players better. Not sure this is happening.

It will be interesting to see the coaches reactions if JMU take a beating from Villanova next week.

It is strange that the O line Coach would be the problem as he was one coach that had shown success on this level, with his teams ranked very high in run offense and total offense. That said personalities sometimes clash and make it hard to get through to people.

I for one am still taking a wait and see attitude.
09-15-2014 08:38 AM
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Hart Foundation Offline
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Post: #14
Re: Chemistry
I would expect this thread if JMU had a powder puff girls football team.

Not so much now.
09-15-2014 09:53 AM
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RE: Chemistry
(09-15-2014 08:20 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 07:23 AM)Dogs of Dukes Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 03:44 PM)JMU_Rocks! Wrote:  It seems like there is a pretty significant rift between the the JMU fan base and also within the football team.

For the fans - the shakeup with Withers, the possibility of an FBS move, and the best potential opportunity seem to create some passionate advocates.

For the team, it seems like there is an old guard / new guard mentality. There seems to be some backlash against the emphasis on transfers and freshman.

I sat next to a guy at the game yesterday - who was down on the Dukes D from the first snap. With every play ending in a 'we suck'. Then on offense, he would alternate cheering or rooting against players.

Turns out - he was a D-lineman last year and is not this year. He shared that players hated playing for Withers and that we're quickly finding out the transfers were not all that. I offered that I heard much the same said of Mickey's relationship with players and he did not disagree.

Change has happened. It seems to me like we as fans and the players need to focus on some common goals (winning, succeeding in the class room, and getting better). Dukes win together and lose together.

Go Dukes!

Players I have spoken to say there is some dissension within the team that goes beyond accepting the changes that are inevitable with a new coaching staff. Especially on the O line there is some resentment about transfers and how they were anointed starters even though their level of performance in practice was not better than existing players. You are now starting to see legacy lineman like Cunningham, a former starter, get more reps because a transfer lineman has not played well.

There also seems to be a problem with the maturity level of some of the assistant coaches. They are young with relatively limited experience and instead of better relating to players they seem to be overly critical and almost abusive in practice. Some of the criticism of players in the press after the Maryland game demonstrated this. Experienced assistant coaches would never do this.

From what I have been told the O line coach is close to losing his group. His up and down emotional coaching style has turned off the players. A good coach can push his players hard physically and mentally, but he must be a motivator who actually makes his players better. Not sure this is happening.

It will be interesting to see the coaches reactions if JMU take a beating from Villanova next week.

The OL coach played at Oklahoma and produced huge numbers at Portland State. If the current OL players resent him, they should look in the damned mirror and toughen up. If jobs were handed to Bolden and Appel (which I find hard to believe), then that is screwed up. My guess is that Wither's likes Bolden's youth and upside. No clue about Appel.

Sick and tired of hearing how JMU players have it so rough. They would have been shocked at how MM practiced when he got the job in 1999. Back then, MM's fuse was incredibly short. I remember being able to hear MM from Showker during stadium practices.


He is ok , he methods and language can come off to certain personalties , but i think he is whats needed go coach out oline. Look at hard knocks and Brian cox, and i love that style lol
09-15-2014 10:08 AM
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ShadyP Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Chemistry
Agree, OL/DL is all about being tough and challenging players and that is what it appears the new OL coach does. If these young men cannot handle tough love, well perhaps they should fnd a new sport b/c this is big-boy football not intramural flag football.
09-15-2014 10:48 AM
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NovaDukes Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Chemistry
(09-15-2014 10:48 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  Agree, OL/DL is all about being tough and challenging players and that is what it appears the new OL coach does. If these young men cannot handle tough love, well perhaps they should find a new sport b/c this is big-boy football not intramural flag football.

As many of you like to complain about, we don't play big-boy football.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2014 11:07 AM by NovaDukes.)
09-15-2014 11:06 AM
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Post: #18
RE: Chemistry
(09-15-2014 11:06 AM)NovaDukes Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 10:48 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  Agree, OL/DL is all about being tough and challenging players and that is what it appears the new OL coach does. If these young men cannot handle tough love, well perhaps they should find a new sport b/c this is big-boy football not intramural flag football.

As many of you like to complain about, we don't play big-boy football.

Dang, the truth hurts. Why did you have to make my Monday worse with honesty?
09-15-2014 11:09 AM
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Post: #19
RE: Chemistry
I don't care if the players like their coach. There are plenty of well like coaches who have terrible records. Some of the most well respected and successful coaches in sports history have been hated by their players. I will say it again, the first year of a new coaching staff is tough. Some transitions are smoother than others, but there is always going to be conflict. Things will improve as Withers and his team get more of their players into the system. People seem to forget that we are talking about human beings who have emotional connections to the former staff. That connection impacts how they view the changes and any new players. This is no different then when a CEO of a company leaves. I hope people give this thing time to play itself out before making judgements. We truly will not know what we have until next season at the earliest.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2014 12:00 PM by NYJMUSupporter.)
09-15-2014 11:59 AM
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