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Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
Ooh, I forgot that UNC is at ECU this Saturday. Not looking good for ACC reputation... 04-jawdrop
09-14-2014 08:52 PM
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texasorange Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
(09-14-2014 08:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Ooh, I forgot that UNC is at ECU this Saturday. Not looking good for ACC reputation... 04-jawdrop

I will be stupid and go out on a limb; North Carolina beats East Carolina.04-cheers
09-14-2014 10:30 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
VT's sleep walk sets up nicely for this week. Georgia Tech vs Virginia Tech: Usually for the division title ... this year to see who's job security is hurt most.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2014 10:33 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
09-14-2014 10:33 PM
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CardFan1 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
I think UVA has found it's Mojo. Their D rose up and looks legit. They could get a lot of momentum by beating BYU.
09-15-2014 08:11 AM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
That's asking an awful lot of UVA to fly out to Provo and beat BYU. I just hope they can keep it close.
09-15-2014 08:31 AM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
Well, Andrea Adelsen has weighed in:

Consistency Still Missing in ACC

She has a point. But my favorite part was this:

But what was reinforced this weekend is the importance of following through. One big win is great. But that big win needs to beget another big win and another, until the ACC has got a solid group of teams that become more predictable week in and week out. Watering down the schedule like the folks over in SEC land is not the answer. The ACC needs to continue to be at the forefront of playing big nonconference games.


Cheers,
Neil
09-15-2014 08:36 AM
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Ole Blue Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
(09-14-2014 10:30 PM)texasorange Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 08:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Ooh, I forgot that UNC is at ECU this Saturday. Not looking good for ACC reputation... 04-jawdrop

I will be stupid and go out on a limb; North Carolina beats East Carolina.04-cheers

Good lord I hope so. I can't stand the Pirates and beating two ACC schools in a year will not be good for their ego. Gotta knock 'em back down a rung on the ladder.
09-15-2014 11:38 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
(09-15-2014 11:38 AM)Ole Blue Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 10:30 PM)texasorange Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 08:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Ooh, I forgot that UNC is at ECU this Saturday. Not looking good for ACC reputation... 04-jawdrop

I will be stupid and go out on a limb; North Carolina beats East Carolina.04-cheers

Good lord I hope so. I can't stand the Pirates and beating two ACC schools in a year will not be good for their ego. Gotta knock 'em back down a rung on the ladder.

I would think it would be great for their ego. It's the ACC's ego that would take a hit.
09-15-2014 11:44 AM
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Ole Blue Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
(09-15-2014 11:44 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 11:38 AM)Ole Blue Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 10:30 PM)texasorange Wrote:  
(09-14-2014 08:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Ooh, I forgot that UNC is at ECU this Saturday. Not looking good for ACC reputation... 04-jawdrop

I will be stupid and go out on a limb; North Carolina beats East Carolina.04-cheers

Good lord I hope so. I can't stand the Pirates and beating two ACC schools in a year will not be good for their ego. Gotta knock 'em back down a rung on the ladder.

I would think it would be great for their ego. It's the ACC's ego that would take a hit.

Not be good (for us) for their ego (to be so big). You're absolutely right that our ego would take a hit... 03-puke
09-15-2014 11:55 AM
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XLance Online
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Post: #30
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
(09-15-2014 08:36 AM)omniorange Wrote:  Well, Andrea Adelsen has weighed in:

Consistency Still Missing in ACC

She has a point. But my favorite part was this:

But what was reinforced this weekend is the importance of following through. One big win is great. But that big win needs to beget another big win and another, until the ACC has got a solid group of teams that become more predictable week in and week out. Watering down the schedule like the folks over in SEC land is not the answer. The ACC needs to continue to be at the forefront of playing big nonconference games.


Cheers,
Neil

Realistically what more could you want in a league?
We have a situation where any team in the league could jump up an beat any other team, and we do it with regularity. How boring it would be to have a league with only one or two teams that could possibly win their league championship every year.
The ACC needs a dominant team in the eyes of the national media, because that's how they know to present the product (Goliath taking on any and all comers and surviving). That's really never been ACC football with the exception of the first 10 years that Florida State was in the league. What we have is good competition and games worth watching instead of waiting for a lamb to be slaughtered. Why would we want to change?
09-15-2014 11:58 AM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
(09-15-2014 11:58 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 08:36 AM)omniorange Wrote:  Well, Andrea Adelsen has weighed in:

Consistency Still Missing in ACC

She has a point. But my favorite part was this:

But what was reinforced this weekend is the importance of following through. One big win is great. But that big win needs to beget another big win and another, until the ACC has got a solid group of teams that become more predictable week in and week out. Watering down the schedule like the folks over in SEC land is not the answer. The ACC needs to continue to be at the forefront of playing big nonconference games.


Cheers,
Neil

Realistically what more could you want in a league?
We have a situation where any team in the league could jump up an beat any other team, and we do it with regularity. How boring it would be to have a league with only one or two teams that could possibly win their league championship every year.
The ACC needs a dominant team in the eyes of the national media, because that's how they know to present the product (Goliath taking on any and all comers and surviving). That's really never been ACC football with the exception of the first 10 years that Florida State was in the league. What we have is good competition and games worth watching instead of waiting for a lamb to be slaughtered. Why would we want to change?

It's because you need more than one Goliath. SEC has like 5 Goliaths.
09-15-2014 12:14 PM
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Shannon Panther Offline
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RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
I think it was a net loss because the VT loss allows the narrative that we are FSU, Clemson, and 12 guys named Moe to continue. We need some consistency before we are going to get respect.


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09-15-2014 12:55 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
(09-15-2014 12:14 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 11:58 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 08:36 AM)omniorange Wrote:  Well, Andrea Adelsen has weighed in:

Consistency Still Missing in ACC

She has a point. But my favorite part was this:

But what was reinforced this weekend is the importance of following through. One big win is great. But that big win needs to beget another big win and another, until the ACC has got a solid group of teams that become more predictable week in and week out. Watering down the schedule like the folks over in SEC land is not the answer. The ACC needs to continue to be at the forefront of playing big nonconference games.


Cheers,
Neil

Realistically what more could you want in a league?
We have a situation where any team in the league could jump up an beat any other team, and we do it with regularity. How boring it would be to have a league with only one or two teams that could possibly win their league championship every year.
The ACC needs a dominant team in the eyes of the national media, because that's how they know to present the product (Goliath taking on any and all comers and surviving). That's really never been ACC football with the exception of the first 10 years that Florida State was in the league. What we have is good competition and games worth watching instead of waiting for a lamb to be slaughtered. Why would we want to change?

It's because you need more than one Goliath. SEC has like 5 Goliaths.

Exactly. It's not the same SEC team winning or playing in NCs year in and year out. It's like 5 different ones. When it's only one - (BE-Miami; ACC-FSU; now Big Ten-OSU) there's the danger of being perceived "weak".

Now, having said that, I don't think the ACC will ever achieve 5 Goliaths. But I'd like to see 2 or 3 develop prior to the end of the current playoff contract.

Cheers,
Neil
09-15-2014 04:44 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
Actually I think Clemson is very close to getting to Goliath status. Once they solve their Gamecock problem..it's on.
09-15-2014 05:24 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
(09-15-2014 05:24 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Actually I think Clemson is very close to getting to Goliath status. Once they solve their Gamecock problem..it's on.

+1
09-15-2014 06:51 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
(09-15-2014 05:24 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Actually I think Clemson is very close to getting to Goliath status. Once they solve their Gamecock problem..it's on.

What constitutes a Goliath? The top 10 programs based on their four year average Sagarin power rating are:

Alabama
Oregon
Stanford
LSU
Oklahoma State
Florida State
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Texas A&M
Wisconsin

The next 10 are:

Ohio State
Missouri
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Auburn
Boise State
TCU
Southern Cal
Georgia
Baylor

Clemson clocks in at #23. How far up the ladder do they need to climb to be a Goliath?
09-16-2014 10:40 AM
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MKPitt Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
(09-16-2014 10:40 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 05:24 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Actually I think Clemson is very close to getting to Goliath status. Once they solve their Gamecock problem..it's on.

What constitutes a Goliath? The top 10 programs based on their four year average Sagarin power rating are:

Alabama
Oregon
Stanford
LSU
Oklahoma State
Florida State
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Texas A&M
Wisconsin

The next 10 are:

Ohio State
Missouri
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Auburn
Boise State
TCU
Southern Cal
Georgia
Baylor

Clemson clocks in at #23. How far up the ladder do they need to climb to be a Goliath?

Once 2010 drops off they'll make a big jump, they've been very good the last three years. I don't have the calculations but I bet they would move to around 15th or so.
09-16-2014 10:46 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
(09-16-2014 10:46 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  
(09-16-2014 10:40 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 05:24 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Actually I think Clemson is very close to getting to Goliath status. Once they solve their Gamecock problem..it's on.

What constitutes a Goliath? The top 10 programs based on their four year average Sagarin power rating are:

Alabama
Oregon
Stanford
LSU
Oklahoma State
Florida State
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Texas A&M
Wisconsin

The next 10 are:

Ohio State
Missouri
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Auburn
Boise State
TCU
Southern Cal
Georgia
Baylor

Clemson clocks in at #23. How far up the ladder do they need to climb to be a Goliath?

Once 2010 drops off they'll make a big jump, they've been very good the last three years. I don't have the calculations but I bet they would move to around 15th or so.

They'll make a jump, but I'm not sure how big. Boise and TCU will no doubt slip on this list, and it's possible Clemson could also jump Kansas State (#21) and Florida (#22), but they could just as easily lose ground depending on how many losses they have this year.

But the question is still "what makes a goliath?"

The only team ranked ahead of Clemson that did not rank in the top ten at least once in the last four years is Southern Cal, which has a high water mark of #12. Clemson's best finish was #14, and I doubt they'll match that this year. For Clemson to reach Goliath status will take more than them getting better, IMO. A lot of other programs are going to have to fall hard to make it happen.

For the foreseeable future, I'm afraid the ACC has only one Goliath, so they better beware of schools carrying slings.
09-16-2014 11:33 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
(09-15-2014 12:55 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  I think it was a net loss because the VT loss allows the narrative that we are FSU, Clemson, and 12 guys named Moe to continue. We need some consistency before we are going to get respect.


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I think you are being overly pessimistic here. To me if the ACC simply sustains the success it has had in the first three weeks this year is a big net plus for them. Why?

1. The Big 10 has fallen way behind in perception and this year is going to leave a scar that prevents the return of a favorable opinion for a few years.

2. B.C.'s victory over U.S.C. was huge. It buys the ACC a major advantage for 1 of those 4 slots and that amplifies in impact if U.S.C. wins the PAC. I'm not saying they will but they have already beaten Stanford one of the PAC's darlings. If they take care of the Arizona's and U.C.L.A. and that is not unlikely, then that victory solidly places the ACC in a position no worse than third in the power standings.

3. The round robin in the Big 12 is going to hurt them too. Texas (only in being a big name) has already lost twice and that has already damaged the Big 12 as it did last year. The Big 12 is 4-5 versus P5 schools with a couple of those wins over the Big 10. Should Auburn knock off Kansas State on Thursday the Big 12 really only has 1 true hope, Oklahoma. Yet history shows that even in years when Texas is down they can rise up for that game. Okie State is a rival. West Virginia could be catching them at the right time. OU had two nobody games and a victory over what is likely to be an improved but still bottom 1/4 of the SEC school. West Virginia has had two much tougher games with Maryland and Alabama. The pass was there for Tennessee all night, but their QB didn't make his reads. Trickett will be better than that. I say all of that to point out that if OU goes down and Texas loses a few as long as Baylor has a loss I think the situation actually vaults the ACC to 2nd place in the power standings.

Now for the downside which isn't really that bad.

1. Yes the Virginia Tech loss to ECU hurts. But if it opens the door for a resurgent Pitt or Syracuse to establish themselves or for North Carolina to emerge with a victory this weekend then the perception will switch from Virginia Tech being to weak to beat ECU, to one of balance and strength in what has been perceived as your dead division which last year was so bad that Duke won it. Understand Duke was a danged good football team, but if Vanderbilt had won the Eastern division of the SEC the same would have been said. The doormat tag lends to the perception that anytime such a school wins that the division they played in wreaked. But if Pitt or Syracuse, or U.N.C. win their division with only 1 loss to go up against an undefeated F.S.U. the perception will be that the ACC is getting stronger. And it is.

2. The worst thing that could happen to the ACC would be for Clemson to beat F.S.U. this weekend. Following the Georgia loss and Georgia's subsequent loss to South Carolina that would create in the minds of the nation an image of weakness in the ACC. Whereas a one loss Pitt, Syracuse, or North Carolina playing F.S.U. close in a championship game yields a perception of strength the same schools playing Clemson close after a Tiger's upset of the Noles would kill the perception of the conferences strength. Now that is unfair because anyone can have a lousy first game. There is a reason everyone wants a tuneup game. But the Georgia loss hurts Clemson and because of that could potentially hurt the ACC if Clemson wins Saturday.

Anyway, if F.S.U. wins and someone puts together a good run in the other division you guys will have had a helluva year for enhancing the public perception of the ACC.
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2014 11:53 AM by JRsec.)
09-16-2014 11:52 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Was this week a net gain or loss for the conference?
(09-16-2014 11:52 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-15-2014 12:55 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  I think it was a net loss because the VT loss allows the narrative that we are FSU, Clemson, and 12 guys named Moe to continue. We need some consistency before we are going to get respect.


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I think you are being overly pessimistic here. To me if the ACC simply sustains the success it has had in the first three weeks this year is a big net plus for them. Why?

1. The Big 10 has fallen way behind in perception and this year is going to leave a scar that prevents the return of a favorable opinion for a few years.

2. B.C.'s victory over U.S.C. was huge. It buys the ACC a major advantage for 1 of those 4 slots and that amplifies in impact if U.S.C. wins the PAC. I'm not saying they will but they have already beaten Stanford one of the PAC's darlings. If they take care of the Arizona's and U.C.L.A. and that is not unlikely, then that victory solidly places the ACC in a position no worse than third in the power standings.

3. The round robin in the Big 12 is going to hurt them too. Texas (only in being a big name) has already lost twice and that has already damaged the Big 12 as it did last year. The Big 12 is 4-5 versus P5 schools with a couple of those wins over the Big 10. Should Auburn knock off Kansas State on Thursday the Big 12 really only has 1 true hope, Oklahoma. Yet history shows that even in years when Texas is down they can rise up for that game. Okie State is a rival. West Virginia could be catching them at the right time. OU had two nobody games and a victory over what is likely to be an improved but still bottom 1/4 of the SEC school. West Virginia has had two much tougher games with Maryland and Alabama. The pass was there for Tennessee all night, but their QB didn't make his reads. Trickett will be better than that. I say all of that to point out that if OU goes down and Texas loses a few as long as Baylor has a loss I think the situation actually vaults the ACC to 2nd place in the power standings.

Now for the downside which isn't really that bad.

1. Yes the Virginia Tech loss to ECU hurts. But if it opens the door for a resurgent Pitt or Syracuse to establish themselves or for North Carolina to emerge with a victory this weekend then the perception will switch from Virginia Tech being to weak to beat ECU, to one of balance and strength in what has been perceived as your dead division which last year was so bad that Duke won it. Understand Duke was a danged good football team, but if Vanderbilt had won the Eastern division of the SEC the same would have been said. The doormat tag lends to the perception that anytime such a school wins that the division they played in wreaked. But if Pitt or Syracuse, or U.N.C. win their division with only 1 loss to go up against an undefeated F.S.U. the perception will be that the ACC is getting stronger. And it is.

2. The worst thing that could happen to the ACC would be for Clemson to beat F.S.U. this weekend. Following the Georgia loss and Georgia's subsequent loss to South Carolina that would create in the minds of the nation an image of weakness in the ACC. Whereas a one loss Pitt, Syracuse, or North Carolina playing F.S.U. close in a championship game yields a perception of strength the same schools playing Clemson close after a Tiger's upset of the Noles would kill the perception of the conferences strength. Now that is unfair because anyone can have a lousy first game. There is a reason everyone wants a tuneup game. But the Georgia loss hurts Clemson and because of that could potentially hurt the ACC if Clemson wins Saturday.

Anyway, if F.S.U. wins and someone puts together a good run in the other division you guys will have had a helluva year for enhancing the public perception of the ACC.

I agree, but I would change a word in your next sentence. I don't think it would create an image of weakness, I think it would reinforce it. The perception of the ACC as a respectable football conference is very recent, and therefore very fragile. We can only benefit so much from the fact that the B1G is in a downward spiral. Them being bad doesn't make us good.

It isn't the middle of a league that makes a power conference. It's the top.
09-16-2014 12:16 PM
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