(09-15-2014 02:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We need to make it easier to come here legally at the same time we make it harder to come here illegally.

And we have to deal with the reality that there are millions who are already here illegally, who logically should not be entitled to benefit from their illegal acts, but realistically there is no place else to send them. Mexico cannot absorb them back without becoming overwhelmed, and anarchy on our southern border is the absolute last thing we need, particularly in an era where terrorism is our biggest threat.

So you give guest worker status to those already here, with no path to citizenship without waiting at least ten years, during which time they must keep their noses clean, learn English fluently, and demonstrate full allegiance to the US in order to start the citizenship clock rolling. And you vastly increase the number of green cards for those who would want to come here legally. And anchor baby only applies if parents are here legally.

The one thing this does accomplish is that we get them all into the system. We know who they are and where they are, and that much improves our ability to deal with issues like terrorism and to separate those who have a sincere interest in citizenship from those who don't. Also, once they are established legally and have standing before the law, a lot of the human rights abuses that are alleged to have happened become harder to sustain.

That is a perfectly reasonable policy IMO.

(09-14-2014 09:46 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(09-14-2014 09:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  so you would be against making it easier to immigrate legally to this country? If so, why?

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Yes, I would be against making it easier to immigrate to this country. Why would any sane person want to make it easier?

Foreigners don't have a right to come here. They can apply and if they're accepting we'll welcome them. But we want people to come here and contribute, not mooch off of us. And if we make it too easy then the people we really don't want to come here will come here and why would we want that?

We do not have the jobs to support all these illegals. That means in order to survive many of them will resort to crime. Why don't they take a page out of our history books and revolt against the government that's oppressing them thus making life easier for future generations of their people. Coming here does nothing to solve the problems of the shitholes they're escaping.

So in short, you don't want more immigration regardless if it's legal?

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(09-15-2014 09:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-14-2014 09:46 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(09-14-2014 09:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  so you would be against making it easier to immigrate legally to this country? If so, why?

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Yes, I would be against making it easier to immigrate to this country. Why would any sane person want to make it easier?

Foreigners don't have a right to come here. They can apply and if they're accepting we'll welcome them. But we want people to come here and contribute, not mooch off of us. And if we make it too easy then the people we really don't want to come here will come here and why would we want that?

We do not have the jobs to support all these illegals. That means in order to survive many of them will resort to crime. Why don't they take a page out of our history books and revolt against the government that's oppressing them thus making life easier for future generations of their people. Coming here does nothing to solve the problems of the shitholes they're escaping.

So in short, you don't want more immigration regardless if it's legal?

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Where did I say that? But we do need to cut down on legal immigration to people who are useless to this country.

(09-15-2014 10:05 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 09:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-14-2014 09:46 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(09-14-2014 09:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  so you would be against making it easier to immigrate legally to this country? If so, why?

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Yes, I would be against making it easier to immigrate to this country. Why would any sane person want to make it easier?

Foreigners don't have a right to come here. They can apply and if they're accepting we'll welcome them. But we want people to come here and contribute, not mooch off of us. And if we make it too easy then the people we really don't want to come here will come here and why would we want that?

We do not have the jobs to support all these illegals. That means in order to survive many of them will resort to crime. Why don't they take a page out of our history books and revolt against the government that's oppressing them thus making life easier for future generations of their people. Coming here does nothing to solve the problems of the shitholes they're escaping.

So in short, you don't want more immigration regardless if it's legal?

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Where did I say that? But we do need to cut down on legal immigration to people who are useless to this country.

Fruit pickers are useful no?

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(09-15-2014 10:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 10:05 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 09:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-14-2014 09:46 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(09-14-2014 09:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  so you would be against making it easier to immigrate legally to this country? If so, why?

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Yes, I would be against making it easier to immigrate to this country. Why would any sane person want to make it easier?

Foreigners don't have a right to come here. They can apply and if they're accepting we'll welcome them. But we want people to come here and contribute, not mooch off of us. And if we make it too easy then the people we really don't want to come here will come here and why would we want that?

We do not have the jobs to support all these illegals. That means in order to survive many of them will resort to crime. Why don't they take a page out of our history books and revolt against the government that's oppressing them thus making life easier for future generations of their people. Coming here does nothing to solve the problems of the shitholes they're escaping.

So in short, you don't want more immigration regardless if it's legal?

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Where did I say that? But we do need to cut down on legal immigration to people who are useless to this country.

Fruit pickers are useful no?

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Yes, as long as they are here legally and leave when their work is done.

(09-15-2014 10:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 10:05 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 09:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-14-2014 09:46 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(09-14-2014 09:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  so you would be against making it easier to immigrate legally to this country? If so, why?

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Yes, I would be against making it easier to immigrate to this country. Why would any sane person want to make it easier?

Foreigners don't have a right to come here. They can apply and if they're accepting we'll welcome them. But we want people to come here and contribute, not mooch off of us. And if we make it too easy then the people we really don't want to come here will come here and why would we want that?

We do not have the jobs to support all these illegals. That means in order to survive many of them will resort to crime. Why don't they take a page out of our history books and revolt against the government that's oppressing them thus making life easier for future generations of their people. Coming here does nothing to solve the problems of the shitholes they're escaping.

So in short, you don't want more immigration regardless if it's legal?

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Where did I say that? But we do need to cut down on legal immigration to people who are useless to this country.

Fruit pickers are useful no?

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Sure they are. But when we have a record number of people unemployed we don't need to be importing labor to do anything.

(09-15-2014 11:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 10:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 10:05 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 09:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-14-2014 09:46 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Yes, I would be against making it easier to immigrate to this country. Why would any sane person want to make it easier?

Foreigners don't have a right to come here. They can apply and if they're accepting we'll welcome them. But we want people to come here and contribute, not mooch off of us. And if we make it too easy then the people we really don't want to come here will come here and why would we want that?

We do not have the jobs to support all these illegals. That means in order to survive many of them will resort to crime. Why don't they take a page out of our history books and revolt against the government that's oppressing them thus making life easier for future generations of their people. Coming here does nothing to solve the problems of the shitholes they're escaping.

So in short, you don't want more immigration regardless if it's legal?

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Where did I say that? But we do need to cut down on legal immigration to people who are useless to this country.

Fruit pickers are useful no?

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Sure they are. But when we have a record number of people unemployed we don't need to be importing labor to do anything.

But if growers are hiring immigrants, that's an indication that Americans aren't willing to do those jobs.

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(09-15-2014 11:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 11:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 10:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 10:05 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 09:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  So in short, you don't want more immigration regardless if it's legal?

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Where did I say that? But we do need to cut down on legal immigration to people who are useless to this country.

Fruit pickers are useful no?

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Sure they are. But when we have a record number of people unemployed we don't need to be importing labor to do anything.

But if growers are hiring immigrants, that's an indication that Americans aren't willing to do those jobs.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

No, it's the fact that migrants will do it for less than minimum wage. Up until about 15 years ago the peach farmers around here didn't have any problem finding local people to pick peaches. Then one year one of the bigger farms hired migrants and undercut everyone else to the point here they took huge losses on an industry where the profit margins aren't great to begin with and everybody was forced to follow suit.

Even after I went into the fire service I would help friend pick peaches in the summer and greens in the winter. They held out on hiring migrants as long as they could because they knew it would hurt the locals that they usually hired, but it was either go with the flow or lose everything. Now instead of high school kids where I grew up having summer jobs working the fields they have to go into town and work retail.

So what you are saying is that it makes economic sense to hire immigrants.

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(09-15-2014 11:51 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  So what you are saying is that it makes economic sense to hire immigrants.

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Only if you are willing to break the law.

(09-16-2014 12:14 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 11:51 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  So what you are saying is that it makes economic sense to hire immigrants.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Only if you are willing to break the law.

Isn't that the true cause of this immigration problem? Corporations hiring "illegals"?

(09-16-2014 10:54 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-16-2014 12:14 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 11:51 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  So what you are saying is that it makes economic sense to hire immigrants.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Only if you are willing to break the law.

Isn't that the true cause of this immigration problem? Corporations hiring "illegals"?

What about when you hire them because I don't see very many illegals working for IBM.

(09-16-2014 11:02 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(09-16-2014 10:54 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-16-2014 12:14 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 11:51 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  So what you are saying is that it makes economic sense to hire immigrants.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Only if you are willing to break the law.

Isn't that the true cause of this immigration problem? Corporations hiring "illegals"?

What about when you hire them because I don't see very many illegals working for IBM.

I used to work at a company that hired legally people from Mexico. It was common knowledge among those people that meat packing companies in the the middle of the country hired illegals and pretty much looked the other way.

Apparently, cleaning goat guts is a really dirty job and "illegals" were just the men to do it.

(09-16-2014 12:14 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 11:51 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  So what you are saying is that it makes economic sense to hire immigrants.

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Only if you are willing to break the law.

The end justifies the means with Fit.

The end justifies the means for corporations as well.

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