The real question is, what happens first: SMU has a winning season or Texas wins the Big 12? My money's on SMU.

(09-10-2014 01:05 PM)mac6115cd Wrote:  The real question is, what happens first: SMU has a winning season or Texas wins the Big 12? My money's on SMU.

Neither's too likely this year. Texas already has 8 starters and 6 on the two deep off the team due to disciplinary actions or injuries (plus a reserve LB). 6 starters and 3 others are on offense, including the 3 most important players. 3 starting OLs, really the only QB and the best WR have been lost just since the 1st game. And a team Texas beat 38-7 beat SMU 43-6 in the next game. So SMU has a long way to get to a bowl this year.

(09-10-2014 01:05 PM)mac6115cd Wrote:  The real question is, what happens first: SMU has a winning season or Texas wins the Big 12? My money's on SMU.

I know people love to kick Texas while they're down, but I think people will be surprised at how quickly Strong will turn them around. Mack left dumpster fires at QB and the entire offensive line as well as a bunch of uncoachable, entitled brats who deserved to be kicked off the team. This was always going to be a write-off year for them.

As for SMU, they'd better nail this hire, because I'm not sure their fledgling program can survive another bad coach.

(09-10-2014 01:13 PM)BoiseStateOfMind Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 01:05 PM)mac6115cd Wrote:  The real question is, what happens first: SMU has a winning season or Texas wins the Big 12? My money's on SMU.

I know people love to kick Texas while they're down, but I think people will be surprised at how quickly Strong will turn them around. Mack left dumpster fires at QB and the entire offensive line as well as a bunch of uncoachable, entitled brats who deserved to be kicked off the team. This was always going to be a write-off year for them.

As for SMU, they'd better nail this hire, because I'm not sure their fledgling program can survive another bad coach.

June Jones was not a bad coach. He took a dumpster fire team and took them to bowls 4 straight years. Last year wasn't very good. But he took a dumpster fire QB and finally, after his 2nd year with him, got Garrett Gilbert improved enough to be drafted, the only one from Mack Brown's recruiting class that year to be drafted.

Would Rice consider taking all their sports to Division III and joining the UAA? That might be their best cultural/academic fit.

(09-10-2014 01:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 01:13 PM)BoiseStateOfMind Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 01:05 PM)mac6115cd Wrote:  The real question is, what happens first: SMU has a winning season or Texas wins the Big 12? My money's on SMU.

I know people love to kick Texas while they're down, but I think people will be surprised at how quickly Strong will turn them around. Mack left dumpster fires at QB and the entire offensive line as well as a bunch of uncoachable, entitled brats who deserved to be kicked off the team. This was always going to be a write-off year for them.

As for SMU, they'd better nail this hire, because I'm not sure their fledgling program can survive another bad coach.

June Jones was not a bad coach. He took a dumpster fire team and took them to bowls 4 straight years. Last year wasn't very good. But he took a dumpster fire QB and finally, after his 2nd year with him, got Garrett Gilbert improved enough to be drafted, the only one from Mack Brown's recruiting class that year to be drafted.

He became a very bad coach very quickly once he stopped putting any effort into recruiting.

It has been posted at times in jest though one W&M poster has consistently posted the eventual creation of a "Magnolia League", something similar to the Ivy.

Possible members: Rice, SMU, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, William & Mary and Navy.

There is still too much money at stake, certainly for Vandy and Wake, though as things keep marching onward with big schools and big money, maybe at some juncture.

(09-10-2014 12:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:07 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Geography is the big strike against Rice playing non-scholarship football. Not just an abundance of schools they want to peer with playing non-scholie football in the region.

Right. Not an abundance of schools playing FCS non-scholarship football, period. The Ivy League does, and of course they are not looking for new members.

The only other non-scholarship FCS conference is the Pioneer Football League. This map of PFL teams shows how much of an obstacle geography would be.

Thanks for the map. I the Pioneer sort of pictured in my head but it skews even more north and east (not Northeast) than I was thinking.

Few years ago Harding University in Arkansas was contemplating Division I and they wanted to go from Division II scholarship football to non-scholarship football. They apparently had interest from the Summit at the time but the Pioneer wasn't interested and the school didn't believe they could afford to be competitive in full scholarship football so they dropped it. The formation of the Great American helped them as well.

FWIW back in the 80's there were several runs made trying to split what is now FCS into scholarship and non-scholarship divisions.

The Southern, Ohio Valley, and Yankee were very adamant about opposing the idea.

(09-10-2014 10:31 AM)Wedge Wrote:  If SMU wants to "move up" in CFB like TCU did, then their boosters are going to have to ante up and keep giving like the TCU boosters did.

Pun intended; while SMU's boosters may be somewhat out of practice, they know all about "ante"ing up to pay for (err, play) ball.

(09-10-2014 01:30 PM)BoiseStateOfMind Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 01:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 01:13 PM)BoiseStateOfMind Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 01:05 PM)mac6115cd Wrote:  The real question is, what happens first: SMU has a winning season or Texas wins the Big 12? My money's on SMU.

I know people love to kick Texas while they're down, but I think people will be surprised at how quickly Strong will turn them around. Mack left dumpster fires at QB and the entire offensive line as well as a bunch of uncoachable, entitled brats who deserved to be kicked off the team. This was always going to be a write-off year for them.

As for SMU, they'd better nail this hire, because I'm not sure their fledgling program can survive another bad coach.

June Jones was not a bad coach. He took a dumpster fire team and took them to bowls 4 straight years. Last year wasn't very good. But he took a dumpster fire QB and finally, after his 2nd year with him, got Garrett Gilbert improved enough to be drafted, the only one from Mack Brown's recruiting class that year to be drafted.

He became a very bad coach very quickly once he stopped putting any effort into recruiting.

Bingo. Most non-SMU fans have no idea what little effort Jones and staff have put into recruiting over the years. We don't visit DFW area high schools. This staff is finally getting called out by local HS coaches for their lack of effort and their incredibly low number of Texan players (we have the lowest percentage in the state).

(09-10-2014 12:36 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 12:20 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  SMU would not be a full member of the PFL, as it's a football-only league. Where their other sports go? No idea.

Right, that would be the biggest issue for SMU or Rice, much bigger than the PFL geography -- finding an acceptable D-I conference for their other sports. Maybe they would be ok with the Missouri Valley, if the MVC were inclined to invite them, but there's NFW they would join the Southland Conference.

The PFL is best-suited for schools that belong to a D-I conference that doesn't sponsor football. San Diego in the WCC is already a PFL member; maybe other WCC schools, or schools in the Big West or WAC, will someday be interested in the PFL.

Moving from the AAC or C-USA to anywhere else would be a step down for SMU or Rice basketball. The Missouri Valley isn't a bad way to go though. A good mix of public and private schools. UNI, SMU/Rice, Wichita State and Illinois State? You'd still have something to work with.

Since the Southland is a non-starter (NFW, as you aptly put it) maybe the Summit League would be willing to take them? You've got Oral Roberts who is semi-nearby and another fellow private school in Denver who might be willing to associate with the Ponies or Owls (they're kinda snobby, but I still like Denver anyways). Not sure how those two schools feel about the IPFW's, IUPUI's, North Dakota State's and Western Illinois's of the world.

IF Rice or SMU were willing to pay travel subsidies, I suppose the Big West would take them. Wasn't so long ago that it briefly had North Texas as a full member - although it was back when the BW still sponsored football. Both Rice and SMU boast a traditionally strong sport that is important to the Big West. For SMU, men's soccer. For Rice, baseball. Either one of them would enhance our academic prestige which is saying something since the conference already has three top-100 USNWR members. Culturally it would be an adjustment since both of these private schools would suddenly be looking west towards California public schools and Hawaii for all conference games but it would work out... provided travel subs were included in the deal.

(Rice, Cal State Fullerton, Long Beach State, UC Irvine: you've got some serious baseball muscle right there. Cal Poly and UC Santa Barbara have stepped it up the last couple years too).

As far as the Pioneer Football League membership itself goes, the only other WCC member besides USD that has football is BYU and they are certainly not going non-scholarship anytime soon. I think Cal Poly and UC Davis are happy with Big Sky football. Idaho? Get back to me if they are kicked out of the Sun Belt and have nowhere else to go.

(09-10-2014 03:39 PM)Carolina Stang Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 01:30 PM)BoiseStateOfMind Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 01:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 01:13 PM)BoiseStateOfMind Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 01:05 PM)mac6115cd Wrote:  The real question is, what happens first: SMU has a winning season or Texas wins the Big 12? My money's on SMU.

I know people love to kick Texas while they're down, but I think people will be surprised at how quickly Strong will turn them around. Mack left dumpster fires at QB and the entire offensive line as well as a bunch of uncoachable, entitled brats who deserved to be kicked off the team. This was always going to be a write-off year for them.

As for SMU, they'd better nail this hire, because I'm not sure their fledgling program can survive another bad coach.

June Jones was not a bad coach. He took a dumpster fire team and took them to bowls 4 straight years. Last year wasn't very good. But he took a dumpster fire QB and finally, after his 2nd year with him, got Garrett Gilbert improved enough to be drafted, the only one from Mack Brown's recruiting class that year to be drafted.

He became a very bad coach very quickly once he stopped putting any effort into recruiting.

Bingo. Most non-SMU fans have no idea what little effort Jones and staff have put into recruiting over the years. We don't visit DFW area high schools. This staff is finally getting called out by local HS coaches for their lack of effort and their incredibly low number of Texan players (we have the lowest percentage in the state).

Did Jones and staff believe that the SMU name and brand would speak for itself? Honest question, because as an outsider I find it hard to believe that you'd have the lowest percentage of Texans in the state. You play schools every year that most football fans and players can at least identify, and I know there is plenty of talent in-state to go around.

We aren't dropping fb or moving basketball to the Big West. Please.

We play BB in the AAC, you know, the conference that's won the last two national championships (albeit Louisville was one). All of our games are on espn. All of them. We have great exposure in BB and FB. Gameday is coming to Moody for the Uconn v SMU game.

Football will right the ship with the new hire. We have the money. We have the facilities. We have the tradition and history of heisman winners, national championships, etc.

This is the only problem: "SMU lags behind in D-FW recruiting, mystifying area high school football coaches" -

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college...f3fb021026

well, that and fan support, which always improves with winning. Our BB games are sold out for the year. Completely. People show up when you are good, and you play other good teams. Period.

(09-10-2014 03:48 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Did Jones and staff believe that the SMU name and brand would speak for itself? Honest question, because as an outsider I find it hard to believe that you'd have the lowest percentage of Texans in the state. You play schools every year that most football fans and players can at least identify, and I know there is plenty of talent in-state to go around.

Honestly, Jones thought his name would speak for itself, and kids would come running to play for the "QB guru" / "Offensive genius" etc. It wasn't the SMU name, it was his own.

The problem with that is Texas HS coaches speak with coaching 'legends' everyday. It is no big deal. Jones' ego proved to be the problem here.

(09-10-2014 01:27 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Would Rice consider taking all their sports to Division III and joining the UAA? That might be their best cultural/academic fit.

They did a study on that about 5 years back. They figured their options were staying with football in CUSA or going to division III and UAA. Nothing else was considered acceptable. They decided CUSA was preferable. Actually has a lot less travel.

It was just hypothetical. And it's true SMU would enhance the academic profile of any conference.

(09-10-2014 03:54 PM)Carolina Stang Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 03:48 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Did Jones and staff believe that the SMU name and brand would speak for itself? Honest question, because as an outsider I find it hard to believe that you'd have the lowest percentage of Texans in the state. You play schools every year that most football fans and players can at least identify, and I know there is plenty of talent in-state to go around.

Honestly, Jones thought his name would speak for itself, and kids would come running to play for the "QB guru" / "Offensive genius" etc. It wasn't the SMU name, it was his own.

The problem with that is Texas HS coaches speak with coaching 'legends' everyday. It is no big deal. Jones' ego proved to be the problem here.

Ah.

(09-10-2014 03:44 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 12:36 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 12:20 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  SMU would not be a full member of the PFL, as it's a football-only league. Where their other sports go? No idea.

Right, that would be the biggest issue for SMU or Rice, much bigger than the PFL geography -- finding an acceptable D-I conference for their other sports. Maybe they would be ok with the Missouri Valley, if the MVC were inclined to invite them, but there's NFW they would join the Southland Conference.

The PFL is best-suited for schools that belong to a D-I conference that doesn't sponsor football. San Diego in the WCC is already a PFL member; maybe other WCC schools, or schools in the Big West or WAC, will someday be interested in the PFL.

Moving from the AAC or C-USA to anywhere else would be a step down for SMU or Rice basketball. The Missouri Valley isn't a bad way to go though. A good mix of public and private schools. UNI, SMU/Rice, Wichita State and Illinois State? You'd still have something to work with.

Since the Southland is a non-starter (NFW, as you aptly put it) maybe the Summit League would be willing to take them? You've got Oral Roberts who is semi-nearby and another fellow private school in Denver who might be willing to associate with the Ponies or Owls (they're kinda snobby, but I still like Denver anyways). Not sure how those two schools feel about the IPFW's, IUPUI's, North Dakota State's and Western Illinois's of the world.

IF Rice or SMU were willing to pay travel subsidies, I suppose the Big West would take them. Wasn't so long ago that it briefly had North Texas as a full member - although it was back when the BW still sponsored football. Both Rice and SMU boast a traditionally strong sport that is important to the Big West. For SMU, men's soccer. For Rice, baseball. Either one of them would enhance our academic prestige which is saying something since the conference already has three top-100 USNWR members. Culturally it would be an adjustment since both of these private schools would suddenly be looking west towards California public schools and Hawaii for all conference games but it would work out... provided travel subs were included in the deal.

(Rice, Cal State Fullerton, Long Beach State, UC Irvine: you've got some serious baseball muscle right there. Cal Poly and UC Santa Barbara have stepped it up the last couple years too).

As far as the Pioneer Football League membership itself goes, the only other WCC member besides USD that has football is BYU and they are certainly not going non-scholarship anytime soon. I think Cal Poly and UC Davis are happy with Big Sky football. Idaho? Get back to me if they are kicked out of the Sun Belt and have nowhere else to go.

Schools that used to have football and have a few wealthy alums who would contribute the relatively small amounts needed for non-scholarship football might be interested in the PFL. Santa Clara and UOP fit in that category. Grand Canyon U or Utah Valley might do it as a steppingstone to full-scholarship FCS; two teams (Austin Peay and Mercer) have already moved from the PFL to a full-scholarship FCS league.

(09-10-2014 01:27 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Would Rice consider taking all their sports to Division III and joining the UAA? That might be their best cultural/academic fit.

No. We have paid for that study, and revisited the conclusions. Need to be all in. The last Rice Athletic Director was worse than June Jones and did a ton of damage. He had a similar retirement announcement and we have new life.

The Owls are defending C-USA champions and expected to bowl qualify for the third straight year. We will be ok.