Hambone. Yes or No.

Are health care costs going down?

(09-10-2014 11:59 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:25 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 09:31 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Kaiser survey finds employer sponsored health care costs only increased 3% in 2014.

I'm really tired of schooling your ignorant ass on this stuff

1) The 10 year growth rate for this cohort is only about 5%. It's the OTHER people who are growing at 15%. You want to talk about them? They're still growing at AT LEAST 15% (and arguably 100% because many of them paid nothing before)
2) There are fewer employer sponsored heath care plans in 2014 than in 2013 as a result of Obamacare.
3) Those that experienced lower than average claims the previous year (and thus would have the lowest increases in premiums) are the ones most likely to continue with their plans, directly leading to a relatively low increase in the premiums for this group. The ones with higher than average claims who would push that 3% number up to 5% are far more likely to convert to other plans... because they would be cheaper.

You keep playing fast and loose with these numbers... As an example... anyone who switched from a non-compliant plan to a compliant one wouldn't be included in your 3% growth number, but if you DID include them, obviously those costs would push that 3% number up... and likely well above the 5% historical growth rate for this group.... and while you might argue that they are getting more insurance coverage, there is no indication that they are getting more care. So either way, their costs have gone up substantially... and you are excluding them in order to try and claim that costs are not going up by as much as they really are.

Good, then stop.

I don't read a quarter of your one-sided views on this issue anyway. You have a vested interested and have made that abundantly clear. I don't care what you think or say.

Well that was a very ugly thing to say.

Sorry, but the dude is impossible. He continually takes stuff that I post and turns them into something I'm not even saying or arguing. In this case, all I did was link a story and comment exactly what they said in the link. I didn't take any positions on how the numbers were calculated or anything.

I said:

Quote:Kaiser survey finds employer sponsored health care costs only increased 3% in 2014.

Kaiser said::

Quote:Annual premiums for employer-sponsored family health coverage reached $16,834 this year, up 3 percent from last year...

Then he has to chime in, acting like a care anyway, to "school my ignorant ass". But I guess that isn't an ugly thing to say in your book?

Sorry...I guess I should have used the word "coverage" instead of "costs". Please forgive me.

Ok since I couldn't get an answer I googled. Are health care costs plummeting.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Are+healt...gws_rd=ssl

Now can we trust these? When I get someone on the right of this issue to say. Yes they are going down. I'll feel better, but I honestly I just want to know the truth.

(09-10-2014 12:44 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Ok since I couldn't get an answer I googled. Are health care costs plummeting.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Are+healt...gws_rd=ssl

Now can we trust these? When I get someone on the right of this issue to say. Yes they are going down. I'll feel better, but I honestly I just want to know the truth.

Good luck!

The only things you'll probably get from them is that the ACA doesn't address a doctor shortage, rural hospitals will suffer, or that some board will eventually kill grandma.

I work in employee benefits for a living. I can say that for most of my clients there is an increase in premium. Some have been drastic, others have not. I had one client who's employee only premium doubled and the employer was contributing less this year than they have in previous years.

Additionally more and more of my clients are moving away from POS and PPO plans and moving to the CDHP or HDHP type plan which is pretty good for the young and healthy but with some of our clients having a decidedly older demographic it's hard on them to pay so much per pay period and have such high OOP costs to satisfy that deductible.

One of my clients is a major retail outdoor living retail chain and they primarily offer PPO plans with only one HDHP option. Over 80% of their population enrolls in the PPO plans and typically they're enrolled in the most expensive because the difference in coverage is so vastly different.

My employer went to a high deductible HSA type of plan. I can honestly say I love it. No where near the hassle the last plan was. You reach a limit and bam, It's over I never see a bill.

(09-10-2014 11:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I don't read a quarter of your one-sided views on this issue anyway. You have a vested interested and have made that abundantly clear. I don't care what you think or say.

MY views are one-sided? All I did was put perspective on your obviously partisan lies. I never took a stance pro or con on Obamacare.

Yes, facts ARE one-side.

The definition of someone who is ignorant is exactly someone who doesn't care what the truth is... who doesn't care to become educated. AT least you're willing to admit that your ignorance is willful.

(09-10-2014 12:13 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Hambone. Yes or No.

Are health care costs going down?

No.

The BEST that can be said is that the growth is slowing... but even this is highly misleading. OF COURSE it is slowing when the government decides to reimburse doctors less for the same care.... and then they subsidize those plans that utilize those reimbursement rates.

I'd also note that your link dates back to 2009 and puts much of the slow-down on the heels of the financial downturn... The author says that his research shows that economic down-turns tend to result in slow-downs in the increase of healthcare spending for about 5 years.

Quote:The recession also shifted millions of Americans out of the private insurance market and into state Medicaid programs. The number of Americans with employer-sponsored coverage dropped by 8 million between 2005 and 2011; over the same period, Medicare enrollment grew by more than 12 million.

As the economy recovers, most health analysts expect that some Medicaid enrollees will return to private coverage. And since private coverage tends to pay doctors more than Medicaid, that change would be expected to increase costs.

(09-10-2014 11:17 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 08:58 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Just got an e-mail that our health care provider will be moving from Aetna to Cigna next year.

Thanks to Obamacare I will now have a limit on my out-of-pocket costs they can charge me for prescription drugs.

Also, my premiums are going to soar by approximately 1%.

IMPEACH!!!

I thought the ACA was supposed to reduce costs.

every family in america was going to save $2500.

(09-10-2014 12:44 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Ok since I couldn't get an answer I googled. Are health care costs plummeting.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Are+healt...gws_rd=ssl

Now can we trust these? When I get someone on the right of this issue to say. Yes they are going down. I'll feel better, but I honestly I just want to know the truth.

The first link in ouyr scientific search..

"But something weird started happening in 2009, something that throws all of our budget debates into question: Health spending growth slowed."

Im sure a trend which started in 2009 are owed to a law signed in 2010 and which did not take effect until 2012... All Hail NoBama...

(09-10-2014 01:15 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I don't read a quarter of your one-sided views on this issue anyway. You have a vested interested and have made that abundantly clear. I don't care what you think or say.

All I did was put perspective on your obviously partisan lies.

bull****. What the **** did I lie about? I just posted a ******* link and repeated, nearly verbatim, one sentence of what the article said. Nothing more. That's why you're not worth talking too dude.

Tom: Buy on the individual market like I have to. We'll see how you feel after that.

Also, the employer mandate doesn't hit until the end of this year ... though they are certainly trying all means legal and illegal to put that off until after the election.

(09-10-2014 01:30 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:17 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 08:58 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Just got an e-mail that our health care provider will be moving from Aetna to Cigna next year.

Thanks to Obamacare I will now have a limit on my out-of-pocket costs they can charge me for prescription drugs.

Also, my premiums are going to soar by approximately 1%.

IMPEACH!!!

I thought the ACA was supposed to reduce costs.

every family in america was going to save $2500*.

You forgot a key piece.

*On a plan laid out by Obama before he was elected that was not really close to the plan that eventually became law.

(09-10-2014 02:03 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Tom: Buy on the individual market like I have to. We'll see how you feel after that.

Also, the employer mandate doesn't hit until the end of this year ... though they are certainly trying all means legal and illegal to put that off until after the election.

I'm not denying that at all. And the mandate has really nothing to do with me because I was already insured.

But if you're in a position where you could not afford insurance before because you were dirt poor...many can now afford it, like my step-daughter.

(09-10-2014 02:05 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I'm not denying that at all. And the mandate has really nothing to do with me because I was already insured.

But if you're in a position where you could not afford insurance before because you were dirt poor...many can now afford it, like my step-daughter.

Good for your step-daughter. But to make that happen, they have more than QUADRUPLED what I would have to pay for far WORSE coverage. I will be dropping out of the market at the end of the year and going to a health share organization. But you're raping the middle class to provide that coverage ... coverage which is typically high wait time, low quality, and no demonstrable advantage over no health insurance. How can I say that? The heavily subsidized crap is really Medicaid. And the state of Oregon (not exactly a far right wing paradise) did a VERY extensive study on the long term health outcomes of no insurance vs Medicaid. Result: no difference.

(09-10-2014 02:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  bull****. What the **** did I lie about? I just posted a ******* link and repeated, nearly verbatim, one sentence of what the article said. Nothing more. That's why you're not worth talking too dude.

So if it's written in an article, it can't be partisan and can't be a lie?

You're spreading these things that ANYONE should know is a lie, which makes you completely complicit... and then when given proper information, you ADMIT that you don't want better information.... that you're happy reading and re-posting lies

(09-10-2014 08:58 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Just got an e-mail that our health care provider will be moving from Aetna to Cigna next year.

Thanks to Obamacare I will now have a limit on my out-of-pocket costs they can charge me for prescription drugs.

Also, my premiums are going to soar by approximately 1%.

IMPEACH!!!

So, you got to keep your plan...

Oh. Wait.

(09-10-2014 02:05 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  But if you're in a position where you could not afford insurance before because you were dirt poor...many can now afford it, like my step-daughter.

That doesn't change the COST of her insurance OR her healthcare. It merely relates to the portion that she is responsible for.

If the government decided to subsidize gold, many people would be able to afford it who otherwise couldn't... but that wouldn't cause the price of gold to go down... nor would it change the available supply of gold. Throw in a manipulated market price for gold and yo have some real problems.

Gentleman,

You are going to pay for it here or there. The people who were propping up the system before were those who themselves were sick or those who had family members who were sick and when you talk about MediCaid. Those guys had the gold card. So let's say you did have a debilitating disease. Do you purposely go bankrupt?

We need to put a national sales tax together. Charge 1% for health care. If the right really wanted to get creative you would find a way to tie it in with a VAT and try to eliminate all income taxes to 15% or there about and up the VAT.

Now let's go back to 2009. It's always better to be in the room making decisions than on the outside bitching about decisions. You may not get what you want but you can influence it. Your party tried to tank it. That will have proven to be a colossal mistake. Mark my words. Mark it DOWN!!!!

(09-10-2014 09:31 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Kaiser survey finds employer sponsored health care costs only increased 3% in 2014.

Quote:Annual premiums for employer-sponsored family health coverage reached $16,834 this year, up 3 percent from last year, with workers on average paying $4,823 towards the cost of their coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation/Health Research & Educational Trust (HRET) 2014 Employer Health Benefits Survey. Survey results are released here in a variety of ways, including a full report with downloadable tables, summary of findings, and an article published in the journal Health Affairs.

2014 Employer Health Benefits Survey

1. Yet, employees have become LESS satisfied with their healthcare benefits since Obamacare was implemented-- NOT more satisfied:

http://www.benefitspro.com/2014/01/30/em...ts-cooling

And Obamacare is supposed to be for employees, not for employers, RWT.

2. The cost "controls" of Obamacare are temporary. They're due to subsidizing the insurers' losses. ALL premium increase figures are currently ARTIFICIAL because of the subsidization that will NOT last. And when they go away, we'll all see just how bad Obamacare is at "controlling costs"...

(09-11-2014 08:02 AM)G-Man Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 09:31 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Kaiser survey finds employer sponsored health care costs only increased 3% in 2014.

Quote:Annual premiums for employer-sponsored family health coverage reached $16,834 this year, up 3 percent from last year, with workers on average paying $4,823 towards the cost of their coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation/Health Research & Educational Trust (HRET) 2014 Employer Health Benefits Survey. Survey results are released here in a variety of ways, including a full report with downloadable tables, summary of findings, and an article published in the journal Health Affairs.

2014 Employer Health Benefits Survey

1. Yet, employees have become LESS satisfied with their healthcare benefits since Obamacare was implemented-- NOT more satisfied:

http://www.benefitspro.com/2014/01/30/em...ts-cooling

And Obamacare is supposed to be for employees, not for employers, RWT.

2. The cost "controls" of Obamacare are temporary. They're due to subsidizing the insurers' losses. ALL premium increase figures are currently ARTIFICIAL because of the subsidization that will NOT last. And when they go away, we'll all see just how bad Obamacare is at "controlling costs"...

There are no cost controls. Deductibles are skyrocketing. Used to be $3,000 was considered a high deductible plan. I am now seeing them has high as $12,000.