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How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
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Noodles Offline
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How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
09-03-2014 07:39 PM
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RonBurgundy Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
(09-03-2014 07:39 PM)Noodles Wrote:  Must Read

Very good read. Couldn't agree any more that the SEC is destroying college football a little more each season.
09-03-2014 07:52 PM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
Satan's
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09-03-2014 08:04 PM
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DogPoundNorth Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
Group of 5 blog game of the week features Toledo vs Mizzou.

http://g5comealive.sportsblog.com/posts/..._week.html
09-03-2014 08:37 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
Article that was very well written. I didn't realize that it had gotten that bad under Johnson.
09-03-2014 08:39 PM
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MasMack Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
Good article that sheds just a little light on the terror that Ellis Johnson produced.
09-03-2014 09:32 PM
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
I'm sorry but to me this was a "excuse" article written by a S. Miss fan looking to blame all that's wrong on the evil monster. Johnson was there for ONE FREAKING YEAR...at most...MOST he was responsible for 25 players and probably half of those were being recruited by the last staff. There were problems at S. Miss before he took that job the once in a 25-50 year season of 2011 overshadowed it and it was fools gold. Before that season S. Miss was 1 game over .500 three of the previous four seasons...

problems existed and a bad hire made it worse. But to put all the blame on a coach that was there for 12 months is crazy especially when there's been very little improvement for a coach that is 4 months away from being there twice as long as the evil monster.
09-03-2014 10:31 PM
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DrBox Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
(09-03-2014 07:39 PM)Noodles Wrote:  Must Read

Very good read, Ellis was a dinosaur, etc., but I do think it leaves the key question unanswered:
How did 1 bad season devastate USM so badly?


Maybe it didn't devastate USM - it could be fans, who had never experienced losing - massively overreacting.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2014 11:32 PM by DrBox.)
09-03-2014 11:31 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
(09-03-2014 11:31 PM)DrBox Wrote:  
(09-03-2014 07:39 PM)Noodles Wrote:  Must Read

Very good read, Ellis was a dinosaur, etc., but I do think it leaves the key question unanswered:
How did 1 bad season devastate USM so badly?


Maybe it didn't devastate USM - it could be fans, who had never experienced losing - massively overreacting.


I think its more of a case of an administration making one really bad hire that lost his players very early in the season and never got them back.

Blaming Alabama is probably a bit of a stretch, but there's no question that Johnson's methods if they are as they described, would certainly cause troubles. You cant turn a Spread No Huddle team into a ground and pound team in 1 year, and its foolish to try when the spread was winning 10 games per year.
09-03-2014 11:58 PM
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Adler Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
Just my take on the situation:

The SEC didn't destroy Southern Miss football. Southern Miss was always regarded as a scrappy independent that would always bring a fight to the traditional SEC powers that surrounded it. There were always outstanding recruits that were either overlooked by the SEC schools or simply chose Southern Miss because of it's consistent winning tradition.

Then, over a few decades, so many Division 1 move-ups happened in the regions once heavily recruited by USM. Suddenly UAB, UCF, FAU, FIU, Troy, ULM, La Tech, USA, GSUs (both of 'em), and MTSU were all competing for those same level athletes. USM still held an advantage in recruiting as long as Jeff Bower was coach because his legacy of winning continued to elevate the stature of the whole program. USM might not have won every recruiting battle against these schools but they won their share.

Then USM fired Bower. The school wanted someone that could take them to another level, and they found that. Unfortunately that level wasn't up.

Suddenly USM was relegated to being another regional school boxed in by a plethora of AAC, CUSA, and Sun Belt schools, and they all exist in the shadow of the SEC.

Is there another Jeff Bower out there, someone that will elevate the program through winning and still remain at USM? Time will tell.
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2014 07:12 AM by Adler.)
09-04-2014 12:50 AM
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bladhmadh Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
(09-04-2014 12:50 AM)Adler Wrote:  Just my take on the situation:

The SEC didn't destroy Southern Miss football. Southern Miss was always regarded as a scrappy independent that would always bring a fight to the traditional SEC powers that surrounded it. There were always outstanding recruits that were either overlooked by the SEC schools or simply chose Southern Miss because of it's consistent winning tradition.

Then, over a decade and a half ('88-'03), so many Division 1 move-ups happened in the regions once heavily recruited by USM. Suddenly UAB, UCF, FAU, FIU, Troy, ULM, La Tech, USA, GSUs (both of 'em), and MTSU were all competing for those same level athletes. USM still held an advantage in recruiting as long as Jeff Bower was coach because his legacy of winning continued to elevate the stature of the whole program. USM might not have won every recruiting battle against these schools but they won their share.

Then USM fired Bower. The school wanted someone that could take them to another level, and they found that. Unfortunately that level wasn't up.

Suddenly USM was relegated to being another regional school boxed in by a plethora of AAC, CUSA, and Sun Belt schools, and they all exist in the shadow of the SEC.

Is there another Jeff Bower out there, someone that will elevate the program through winning and still remain at USM? Time will tell.

That's what southern miss fans refuse to understand. The reason they were so good is they were the just about the only d1 choice in the area. They had the pick of the litter. Now the competition is much greater and maintaining 7-9 wins a year with two built in losses for pay games is a lot harder to achieve.

USM is like the 45 yr old man who dumps his loving wife of 20 years for that hot young stripper. Sure it's great fun for a few years but as soon as she burns through all your money she's out the door as soon as she gets a better offer. Now your 48years old, 20lbs heavier, broke, and desperate.
09-04-2014 03:40 AM
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nastybunch Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
Yes, obviously the SEC had something to do with the position we are in now. However, Johnny come latelys line UAB, USA, and others took their bite also. Louisville might have been the worst culprit, as they started dipping into Alabama and the Florida panhandle to get player we used to get. Also, our administration has been reactive rather than proactive over the years, loving prostitution games as a band aid rather than coming up with ideas increase the fan base.
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2014 06:58 AM by nastybunch.)
09-04-2014 06:49 AM
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Superanjario Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
I didn't read the article because the premise is so absurd. There's nothing wrong with Southern Miss that a good hire couldn't fix fairly quickly. At 95% of college programs, good coaching wins and bad coaching loses. Southern Miss has a great stadium for the G05 level. I assume their other football facilities are at least decent. It also has fans that care.

USM should be one of the CUSA elite in football. Stop hiring bad coaches (I assume the verdict is still out on the current guy) and thins will turn.
09-04-2014 08:12 AM
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shiftyeagle Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
Southern Miss destroyed Southern Miss football.
09-04-2014 08:28 AM
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ThreeifbyLightning Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
I don't believe USM has been destroyed. It's a bad stretch. The first one in a long time, but it's not irreversible.

And while this article provides a very interesting theory, the author could take a key tenet of his position to demonstrate how USM can indeed emerge from this.

USM simply needs to evolve itself. It's not 1986 anymore. While Fedora brought a modern offense to Hattiesburg, there isn't much else going on at USM that is 21st Century. Money has always been important, but it's a heck of a lot more important now than it was in the 1980's. It's the same problem we face. Like us, you guys have to figure out a way to raise more money in a tough time to bring all aspects of your program back up to a 21st Century level. It won't be easy. It won't be easy for any of us. We're all going to need to evolve to figure out a way to stay competitive.
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2014 08:35 AM by ThreeifbyLightning.)
09-04-2014 08:33 AM
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GreenHornet33 Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
If I'm Southern Miss I beg Jeff Bower to come back our I make a serious run at someone like Mark Hudpeth at UL. At some point you have to get out of the hole before you're in too deed which already might be the case.
09-04-2014 08:49 AM
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
(09-04-2014 08:49 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  If I'm Southern Miss I beg Jeff Bower to come back our I make a serious run at someone like Mark Hudpeth at UL. At some point you have to get out of the hole before you're in too deed which already might be the case.

If Hudspeth keeps winning with the Cajuns, he will be scooped up by a P5 team.
09-04-2014 09:08 AM
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EagNBran Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
(09-04-2014 12:50 AM)Adler Wrote:  Just my take on the situation:

The SEC didn't destroy Southern Miss football. Southern Miss was always regarded as a scrappy independent that would always bring a fight to the traditional SEC powers that surrounded it. There were always outstanding recruits that were either overlooked by the SEC schools or simply chose Southern Miss because of it's consistent winning tradition.

Then, over a few decades, so many Division 1 move-ups happened in the regions once heavily recruited by USM. Suddenly UAB, UCF, FAU, FIU, Troy, ULM, La Tech, USA, GSUs (both of 'em), and MTSU were all competing for those same level athletes. USM still held an advantage in recruiting as long as Jeff Bower was coach because his legacy of winning continued to elevate the stature of the whole program. USM might not have won every recruiting battle against these schools but they won their share.

Then USM fired Bower. The school wanted someone that could take them to another level, and they found that. Unfortunately that level wasn't up.

Suddenly USM was relegated to being another regional school boxed in by a plethora of AAC, CUSA, and Sun Belt schools, and they all exist in the shadow of the SEC.

Is there another Jeff Bower out there, someone that will elevate the program through winning and still remain at USM? Time will tell.



I mean I guess you can keep believing that firing Bower was the problem. But it just makes you look like you can't let that be what it was. A needed move. We could have kept Bower and attendance would have continued to fall (it fell pretty hard his last few years) or we could make a move and just try. Try to make ourselves better. Try to improve recruiting. Try to excite a fanbase. Try to bring us to a higher level.

Fedora did all of those. He made us a better program. He brought in much stronger recruits and higher ranked recruiting classes. He excited a bored fanbase. And he brought us within one win of a Sugar Bowl berth.

Our talent was still at a high level when Fedora left. Many of the players that were on our Championship team were still on the team in 2012. Many of the players we saw as "stars" or "playmakers" were still there. Johnson ruined their talent. Then the other talent we had left quit or transferred. No one wanted to be part of that catastrophe. Monken is trying to fix problems he caused.

But I guess Bower getting fired did inevitably lead to that if you wanna ignore Fedora's success.



And I really want to address the last thing you said. There's a giant issue with wanting to find a guy who's going to stay at Southern Miss for a long time and be successful. It's not going to happen. It's a different college football world. We are a stepping stone program. Period. Accept it. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just the case. And the sooner we embrace that mindset, the sooner we'll understand that if a coach leaves our program for somewhere else, then we should feel confident that they left us better than when they came, setting up the next coach.

The mindset of "get someone to stay a long time" is the exact mindset that hired Johnson. An offended group who didn't like Fedora because he left us decided to get someone who wouldn't leave us. Complacency. And it leads to destruction of a program. We aren't Alabama. We aren't Ohio State. If we get someone who will stay for 20 years, we probably don't want them. Why do you think so many people are so scared of the Doc Sadler hire? It seems like the exact thing they did with Johnson. Hire someone who will stay a while.



Just seems super flawed. I guess I get where you're coming from. I just don't see how it's relevant today. But I guess you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is.
09-04-2014 09:22 AM
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nastybunch Offline
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
Wrong about Fedora. He left us with absolutely nothing, Elloss took us farther down, and it will take several years to get out if the hole, if we ever can.
09-04-2014 10:38 AM
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RE: How the SEC destroyed Southern Miss Football
(09-04-2014 10:38 AM)nastybunch Wrote:  Wrong about Fedora. He left us with absolutely nothing, Elloss took us farther down, and it will take several years to get out if the hole, if we ever can.

S. Miss can get out of the hole...

doubt if your fans can. When fans are living in the past, a past way different than what the landscape is today makes it almost impossible to get it back. That's no disrespect to S. Miss fans because honestly Western fans went through the same things with basketball.

We saw the landscape change with integration and players we use to get now went to SEC schools...with a lot less history. Then espn came onto the scene and redefined what is "major" in peoples minds. Add in a bad hire or two into the mix....


So while I sometime point out S. Miss's history as being long gone I honestly do understand where you fans are coming from.
09-04-2014 11:11 AM
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