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Is there a trend developing?
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thagr82008 Offline
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Post: #61
Re: RE: Is there a trend developing?
(12-03-2014 04:49 PM)Tony85 Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 10:18 AM)thagr82008 Wrote:  As I look over what's being said.....I don't feel that the tenures in coaching warrant comparing(although, we will for obvious reasons).... Cal has had several more opportunities,based on tenure alone, to hone his craft. Josh is in the process of developing/honing the necessary traits to become a higher level recruiter;successor strategist etc... Not saying that this makes it all moot but(in theory) it does...

We tend to omit the fact of where we were when Josh took over from Cal.... That makes a tremendous difference...As CAL had suitors, always had a network of constituents that campaigned for his success 24/7 as they knew Cal would deliver for them... Josh began from scratch with no one campaigning for him. No one knew who he was. As a matter of fact, did Josh know who he was? Does he realize who he is now, or is he a work in progress?

I think Josh is a work in progress, and we must understand that first and foremost, although he is doing an admirable job....Cal has enemies because he has been in the game so long. Josh doesn't have that luxury. And I did say luxury, for the simple fact that enemies arrive because you become successful @ something. "Enemies don't bother searching for average adversaries!" There must be a level of success to create that effect.

So as we look @ Joshs' tenure, it's obviously being developed as we speak, sort of a crash-coarse in becoming a viable foe, all-the-while doing this @ a university that has tenure;has foes and has had a nominal level of successful intertwined in immense history....we must merge these two elements together(Joshs development and Memphis' history) to fully understand where we are and be realistic about the possibilities of our University and our coaches ability to bring in Top 5 recruits.

There are some elements that are in place, as we have the ability to land top 50 talent on a regular basis. This is very promising based on the aforementioned ingredients that are present. I think a certain percentage of that is Memphis and a certain percentage is because of Josh( as those elements must work in tandem). What we saw with Cal, was a heavy percentage of Cals' constituents that worked for him...

As Josh continues to develop his staple in this game; acquire enemies, as well as constituents. Become a media darling( as this is a part of recruiting) as we see Pearl as well as Cal use it to it's highest degree....Remember the Memphis/UT game where it was one of THE most watched college games in ESPN history!!!!! That was because of Cal and Pearl, fighting for recruits.... So once again, a lot more elements most be in place for that stars to lineup in our favor. As we feel it should.

More importantly....Josh needs enemies!!!! he came very close but Petino jumped to the ACC. Beating them 3 straight games was/is monumental. So it's a very important staple in Joshs' tenure....GOD forbid if he and Ricky ever have a slight spat on ESPN.....

Smiles and Cries

Classic. ...Gonna watch that 2nite

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App
12-04-2014 12:23 PM
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Oman Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Is there a trend developing?
(09-01-2014 01:11 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  This isn't a doomsday post, just an observation.

Jayson Tatum eliminated Memphis from his list today. I'm not all that surprised given his long list of suitors. But it does make me wonder if Josh is losing his "touch" when it comes to recruiting the best of the best (not including Memphis kids). In his first 3 years he was signing guys like Will Barton and Shaq from outside of the city and it seemed like we were at least on the short list for a number of other top non-local prospects, but a lot can change in 3-5 years.

My concern is that maybe the "shine" has worn off. He was getting a lot of hype early on, but it seems like we're starting to struggle with landing top recruits if they aren't from Memphis. The good thing is...the city of Memphis is loaded in the near future so that shouldn't be too big of a problem, but in the coming years...if the city's talent pool isn't as deep, are we going to see more recruiting classes like this past year's? I know Memphis, pre-Cal, has never reeled in top 10 guys from out of the city on a consistent basis so maybe I should just get my mind right...and hope Memphis keeps churning out 5-star kids.

Josh's calling card, at least at this point in his career, has been his ability to recruit. IF that starts to slip...IF this past year's class is an indicator of things to come when the city doesn't produce, then that's a scary sign IMO.

Has any coach other than Cal recruited top talent nationally? Larry sure didn't, nor did the carousel that followed him. Josh needs to get the top 1-3 from Memphis each year, a top 50 from ourside, and a fill in, normally a big guy.
12-04-2014 04:05 PM
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Oman Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Is there a trend developing?
(12-04-2014 09:48 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Josh hangs his hat on his ability to recruit. Even when we stopped getting the big time national recruits, we still had the hope of landing elite local prospects. Well, he hasn't landed those guys either in the last 2 years (Leron Black/Skal). Granted, there were some things working against us in both cases, but at the end of the day we didn't get it done and they were in our backyard. Throw in J3, Hollins, and Stokes and one could argue he's allowed too many homegrown talents to leave Memphis over the last few years. AGAIN, I don't blame him TOTALLY for ALL those kids leaving...but the way things are trending - we need elite local talent, AS MUCH AS WE CAN GET, to stay home. When we can't keep the top local talent home (without hiring their dad) we will struggle to put talent on the court.

When you lack as a coach and your roster lacks talent...losing to CBU and SFA happens. We're starting to see that.

He did get the lawsons, the first before he hired their dad, and king and Crawford the year before. Memphis produces 8-10 d1 players each year, normally 2-3 high level. he needs to get 1-2 each year. He's done that.
12-04-2014 04:14 PM
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HometownTiger Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Is there a trend developing?
BUMP!
07-20-2015 11:10 PM
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jason80 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Is there a trend developing?
(09-01-2014 01:11 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  This isn't a doomsday post, just an observation.

Jayson Tatum eliminated Memphis from his list today. I'm not all that surprised given his long list of suitors. But it does make me wonder if Josh is losing his "touch" when it comes to recruiting the best of the best (not including Memphis kids). In his first 3 years he was signing guys like Will Barton and Shaq from outside of the city and it seemed like we were at least on the short list for a number of other top non-local prospects, but a lot can change in 3-5 years.

My concern is that maybe the "shine" has worn off. He was getting a lot of hype early on, but it seems like we're starting to struggle with landing top recruits if they aren't from Memphis. The good thing is...the city of Memphis is loaded in the near future so that shouldn't be too big of a problem, but in the coming years...if the city's talent pool isn't as deep, are we going to see more recruiting classes like this past year's? I know Memphis, pre-Cal, has never reeled in top 10 guys from out of the city on a consistent basis so maybe I should just get my mind right...and hope Memphis keeps churning out 5-star kids.

Josh's calling card, at least at this point in his career, has been his ability to recruit. IF that starts to slip...IF this past year's class is an indicator of things to come when the city doesn't produce, then that's a scary sign IMO.

Yeah we are not going to get five stars if they are not from memphis but we never did except under Cal but we should be fine. I like these three star guys. We should prob accept that we are not a blue blood who will consistently get four and five star guys. We are a top twenty five program because we have a great local recruiting base. The thing that concerns me is we have missed on some great local guys like Skal and now with Austin leaving if we start to see the best in the city leave then that is a problem. Losing Skal hurts a lot if we get Skal we are a top ten type of team. If u have a front line of KJ, Skal and Dedric plus Shaq and Marshall that is a hell of a front line. So for me losing local kids will be the isuue. If we can get Chandler then other guys will come to play here after all he is the number one recruit in his class. Whoever the coach is has to make that happen will be the best player to come through here since Penny.
07-22-2015 12:15 AM
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HometownTiger Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Is there a trend developing?
2015: 1 Top 50, 2 Top 100, 5 outside of Top 100

Dedric Lawson - 37th
KJ Lawson - 56th
Nick Marshall - 146th
Randall Broddie - 131st
Craig Robinson II - 243rd
Dante Scott - 343rd
Jeremiah Martin - 353rd

Nationally involved with: JaQuon Lyle (OSU) - 54th, Andrew Fleming (IOWA) - 82nd, Marcus Lovett (SJU) - 110th, Ted Kapita (ARK) - 42nd, Moustapha Diagne (CUSE) - 70th.

Elite local prospects missed: Skal Labissiere (UK) - 2nd, LaGerald Vick (KU)- 28th.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2014: 3 JUCOs & no Top 100

Trahson Burrell - NR
Chris Hawkins - NR
Avery Woodson - NR
Dominic Magee* - 103

Nationally involved with: Trevon Bluiett (XAV) - 58th, Cliff Alexander (KU) - 2nd, Chris McCullough (CUSE) - 32nd, Cinmeon Bowers (AUB) - NR,

Elite local prospects missed: Leron Black (ILL) - 43rd, Chris Chiozza (UF) - 36th

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2013: 2 Top 50, 6 Top 100

Austin Nichols* - 29th
Kuran Iverson* - 32nd
Nick King* - 55th
Dom Woodson* - 74th
Pookie Powell* - 99th
Markel Crawford - 71st

Nationally involved with: Tyler Ennis (CUSE) - 37th, Josh Newkirk (PITT) - 137th, Keith Frazier (SMU) - 26th, Juwan Parker (UGA) - 127th, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson (ZONA) - 18th, Josh Hart (NOVA) - 125th, Devin Williams (WVU) -54th, Jameel McKay (ISU) - NR, Dwight Coleby (OM) 156th, Sidy Djitte (CLEM) - 235th, Robert Hubbs (UT) - 21st.

Elite local prospects missed: Johnathan Williams III (MIZZ) - 48th, JuJuan Johnson (MARQ) - 42nd.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2012: 1 Top 50, 1 outside of Top 100

Shaq Goodwin - 37th
Damien Wilson* - 142nd

Nationally involved with: Rodney Purvis (NCSU) - 10th, Archie Goodwin (UK), 18th, Gabe York (ZONA) - 50th, Jordan Adams (UCLA) - 65th, Alex Poythress (UK) - 7th, Perry Ellis (KU) - 33rd, Tony Parker (UCLA) - 21st, LJ Rose (BAY) - 95th

Elite local prospects missed: Jarnell Stokes (UT) - 39th

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2011: 1 Top 10, 1 JUCO

Adonis Thomas - 7th
Stan Simpson - NR

Limited scholarships and only wanted Adonis.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2010: 3 Top 50, 4 Top 100, 3 outside of Top 100.

Will Barton - 13th
Joe Jackson - 20th
Jelan Kendrick* - 24th
Tarik Black* - 60th
Chris Crawford - 112th
Hippolyte Tsafack - 176th
Antonio Barton - 282nd

Pastner's first recruiting class.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, early on in Pastner's career here we recruited at a very high level. He managed to keep MOST of the elite local talent home - though missing on Stokes was a HUGE miss. We were on the final list for a number top All-Americans and lost to schools such as: Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA, Arizona, NC State, and Syracuse.

In Josh's first 4 years we made the final cut for 8 non-local All-Americans. In the last 2 years, we've made the final cut for just 2. So, essentially the number of non-local elite prospects we actually stand a chance with has dropped by half in the last 2 years...

In Josh's final 2 years we have seen 4 Top 50 local recruits leave the city. That's 1 more than his first 4 years combined. We now lose recruiting battles to the likes of Iowa, Xavier, Arkansas, and Auburn.

We've had 6 players outside of the Top 100 in the last 2 classes. That's 2 more than we've had in Josh's first 4 years combined.

So, when I say a trend has developed - these are the facts backing that up.

Oh...2016 doesn't look promising either, so as far as I can tell, the trend will continue.
07-22-2015 12:28 PM
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