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Figure I would dedicate a thread to discussion surrounding the thoughts on QB play in the game against Purdue. ...

First half had Terrell getting very little separation from his WR's, however there was a crossing route to Davis in the first quarter (heck it might have been the first possession)... Terrell was a little high and behind Davis and the pass was dropped... I put 70% on the QB there... If that ball is caught Davis likely goes to the house...

Terrell was just as poor with his throws in the first half, as his WR's were at getting open. I don't think you can blame one over the other... Problem was... when a guy got a touch open, Terrell made a duck, nose down throw off target... I blame nerves for that...

The reason I could see as to why Terrell was our best bet going into this season had more to do with his pocket awareness and control of the offense in general. I really thought Terrell did extremely well at keeping himself upright. He stepped up into the pocket nicely or side stepped pressure long enough most of the time to give himself the space and time to make some throws. This worked out well in the second half, when he coupled that ability with some accuracy... He looked comfortable behind the line... He had two huge "oops... want that back" moments that stuck out to me...

1. Obviously trying to squeeze that ball into a double covered WR over the middle that got picked... he had Davis streaking down the far sideline WIDE OPEN on that play too... Oh well.. learning experience... and it was during his stretch of really bad accuracy... That play still has me shaking my head. That could have really set the tone for the second half had we gone up a couple scores at the end of that drive...

2. The fumbled hand-off ... the reason I note this... is that he really wanted to keep that ball on the read option. He had huge daylight on that play... I would say atleast 10 yds... The entire Purdue front 7 collapsed on the RB there... luckily for us... he recovered the ball... but we lost yards and went on the struggle in that series ending in a punt.

If Terrell cleans up his accuracy issues... and can keep himself upright... I don't see a reason to switch QB's just yet. He didn't cost us the game... getting off the field on defense when we had Purdue in some precarious 3rd downs... that's what cost us the game... 34pts should have been PLENTY of points to win that game.

If Terrell is going to keep the job, he is going to have to minimize mistakes every game, because his ability to make big time throws is limited. That's okay. We just have to realize there is a certain ceiling with him. Terrell is a game manager, and if his accuracy is suffering on a particular day, it is going to be difficult for WMU to win.

Watch this video of the Terrell INT and you'll see exactly why it happened. He's staring down a receiver at the top of the screen and is about a full second too long to go to his second option (bottom of the screen where the INT happens). The O-line gave him perfect protection. The difference between a completion and an INT was his hesitation. He's got to make that second read faster.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=1143650...api_public

(09-01-2014 11:51 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  He didn't cost us the game... getting off the field on defense when we had Purdue in some precarious 3rd downs... that's what cost us the game... 34pts should have been PLENTY of points to win that game.

I can agree with this.

Honest question and maybe someone out there knows. I could only speculate.

Does Coach Fleck or his OC script the X number of plays as I have heard others do even in the NFL?

(09-01-2014 12:07 PM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  If Terrell is going to keep the job, he is going to have to minimize mistakes every game, because his ability to make big time throws is limited. That's okay. We just have to realize there is a certain ceiling with him. Terrell is a game manager, and if his accuracy is suffering on a particular day, it is going to be difficult for WMU to win.

What are you smoking? Honestly.

What QB is allowed to maximize their mistakes and still keep their job?

How do you define a big time throw? Pass to WMU's TE coming in cold off the bench at MSU?
Toss to Davis for his 2nd touchdown drive of the 2nd half or was that a simple pitch and catch? How was that not a big time throw.

Several have talked about "ceiling". Everyone knows what that means in general terms. But if you are evaluating someone and the thesis of your post is "Should he keep his job", be specific.

What is his ceiling? What are you basing it on? What are the measureables? What is the context of the measureables? If you bought gold at $300 an ounce and sold it at $1200 you made a killing. A GREAT investment. If you bought the same gold at $1400 and it's now $1,200 and need to sell it you suck. Same commodity, different context.

(09-01-2014 08:05 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  Pass to WMU's TE coming in cold off the bench at MSU?

GB - Not arguing that was a great moment, but that throw was 300 pass attempts ago. Besides the Corey Davis TD at UMass last season, I can't think of many game-changing/memorable passes he has thrown. I hope we see some more of those soon.

This talk about ZT has been as insufferable as it gets, your rationale and emotional driven evaluations of him just befuddle. I like that gbl stepped up and asked for clarification, but it's a lost cause. Now the metric du jor is game changing/memorable passes?

Please. This from the same characters that predicted/stated Stewart was going to be starting by the middle of the year and from another character who flat out called for CS to be in the game during the Purdue game.

Desire is not even thinly veiled.

You all trust Peej so much, why not here?

(09-01-2014 08:05 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  If you bought gold at $300 an ounce and sold it at $1200 you made a killing. A GREAT investment. If you bought the same gold at $1400 and it's now $1,200 and need to sell it you suck. Same commodity, different context.

Based purely off statistics from last year and this year -- granted after one game -- Terrell's completion percentage is up 3% (53% to 56%) and his QB rating is up about 6 pts. (111 to 117).

Right now, we bought gold at $300 an ounce and if we sold it today we'd be getting about $500.

I want $1,200.

Meanwhile, there are two other shiny pieces of gold sitting nearby; the experts are telling me that one is an unknown commodity and the other is likely to be a good investment.

(09-01-2014 08:27 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  This talk about ZT has been as insufferable as it gets, your rationale and emotional driven evaluations of him just befuddle. I like that gbl stepped up and asked for clarification, but it's a lost cause. Now the metric du jor is game changing/memorable passes?

Please.

I think we're having a good, healthy conversation/debate about the topic. You're welcome to provide some insight also. Ready when you are.

You have mine. Quit bagging on the kid and trust the coach you gush about so much.

(09-01-2014 08:30 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(09-01-2014 08:05 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  If you bought gold at $300 an ounce and sold it at $1200 you made a killing. A GREAT investment. If you bought the same gold at $1400 and it's now $1,200 and need to sell it you suck. Same commodity, different context.

Meanwhile, there are two other shiny pieces of gold sitting nearby; the experts are telling me that one is an unknown commodity and the other is likely to be a good investment.

Name your experts. Do they know more than the HC? Are they close to the HC? Is it the HC?

Not naming names but using the veil of "experts" is weak by any standard.

Have you stopped beating your wife? I can play that game.

(09-01-2014 07:55 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  Honest question and maybe someone out there knows. I could only speculate.

Does Coach Fleck or his OC script the X number of plays as I have heard others do even in the NFL?

Are there any experts out there who can answer this question. No need to reveal who you are.

(09-01-2014 08:14 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(09-01-2014 08:05 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  Pass to WMU's TE coming in cold off the bench at MSU?

GB - Not arguing that was a great moment, but that throw was 300 pass attempts ago. Besides the Corey Davis TD at UMass last season, I can't think of many game-changing/memorable passes he has thrown. I hope we see some more of those soon.

Wait a minute.
I'm told he can't make big game plays.
I'm told he has a lolly pop arm.
I'm told he barely wins the tallest midgit in the room contest with the cast from Lil People.

I mention his very first collegiate pass.
I put into context when and where it happened.
I ask about his toss to Davis at PURDUE not UMASS.
I purposefully kept my powder dry on his toss to Braverman (47 yds) and a TD to Roberts.

And I get a dismissal?

Context: I bet dollars to donuts because the HC is hell bent on not allowing for turnovers that turn into points had his first 10 or more plays scripted. In other words, change the call at your own peril.

The first half for ZT is bad. I admit.
I also suggested and you and two others meekly concur that his receivers couldnt get any separation. And when they do and he hits them in their hands they drop the pass.
#31 is running rough shod over PU but because it isnt scripted he gets limited touches and passes to covered receivers are continued being called out.

2nd half. The staff talks it over and realize that they have been schemed. PU is playing pass first and daring WMU to run the ball. Though the Broncos do it is reasonably successfully it still hasnt changed what PU was doing.

Now running down hill, gobbling up yardage PU starts to stack the box. Fake the hand off to #31 and Braverman catches his man napping or not taking him seriously.

Two touchdown drives executed by Zach Terrell. Terrible, soft and wobbly passes but he puts 12 points on the board when the long knives were coming out. It is now a 3 point game then Haldeman misses.

So in short, when not being held to the pre-scribed plays, going with a hoss that has brung ya, all of a sudden PU bites on play action and ZT pitches two, that is 2 touchdowns when they were most needed. Not in garbage time. But in critical, game changing context.

Boy he blows.

ZT got better as the game went on. Against a Big Ten team on the road, this is a good thing. I don't care if Purdue is expected to go 1-11 again this year. The INT hurt, but it was more encouraging that he didn't let it snowball. Quite the opposite in fact.

Fellas, we have been spoiled with hiller and carder throwing the ball under cubit. If anyone here expects us to have a QB perform like those two under the current regime, well that's just crazy. That doesn't mean the current regime is bad, just different.

This thread should be titled "the performance of our front 7 on defense". Until we get run stoppers, we aren't doing jack.

Frankly, the Purdue game reminded me a lot of previous BCS games under cubit. Really close, a few plays go our way, cut out the big turnover...and maybe a different outcome. Only real difference was we did damage on the ground rather than 300 yards in the air. But again, until we get a defense that has studs in the front 7, we aren't going to win more than we lose. The young pipeline needs to pan out.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(09-01-2014 08:35 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  You have mine. Quit bagging on the kid and trust the coach you gush about so much.

For a minute there I thought I was witnessing a good discussion. Then.....somebody......interrupted it with empty blather and the train derailed again.

Nothing good about this discussion but two guys who never threw a spiral in their life dissecting a guys play and pushing an agenda about who they'd like to see by trying to take down a kid who played a tough 1st half road game against a B1G opponent.

(09-01-2014 10:35 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Nothing good about this discussion but two guys who never threw a spiral in their life dissecting a guys play and pushing an agenda about who they'd like to see by trying to take down a kid who played a tough 1st half road game against a B1G opponent.

One guy who never coached a day in his life can access a coach based on his grooming aids.

I started this thread in an attempt to have some honest dialog about the QB position and what we saw er took away from the game Saturday. My observations are not in an effort to push some sort of agenda regarding positional changes... but rather to take an honest look at the performance... I saw good things and I saw bad things.. I believe that I noted that with a few adjustments to accuracy and continued comfort in the system Terrell will be a fine starter...

Remember last year when TVT got rung a few times... He had a huge arm... but couldn't get himself clear enough to use it... or rushed his throws out of what seemed like a bit of a fear in his pocket collapsing... Terrell gets in space well... and who knows how well his successors would be in that fact... If they have cannons but can't keep themselves upright long enough to use them... whats the point?

(09-02-2014 09:44 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  I started this thread in an attempt to have some honest dialog about the QB position and what we saw er took away from the game Saturday. My observations are not in an effort to push some sort of agenda regarding positional changes... but rather to take an honest look at the performance... I saw good things and I saw bad things.. I believe that I noted that with a few adjustments to accuracy and continued comfort in the system Terrell will be a fine starter...

Remember last year when TVT got rung a few times... He had a huge arm... but couldn't get himself clear enough to use it... or rushed his throws out of what seemed like a bit of a fear in his pocket collapsing... Terrell gets in space well... and who knows how well his successors would be in that fact... If they have cannons but can't keep themselves upright long enough to use them... whats the point?

That is a significant point. Having a standup pro-style pocket passer, you have to have pass protection to go with, apart from simple stepping up. Gets to 3-5-7 step drops selection, ability to make reads quickly, etc. Terrell does seem to be able to move around effectively. Finding his receivers, getting a stable base for tight spirals has something to do with pressure as well. O-Line and a good pass blocking back has so much to do with it.