Rice on the "weakling" side of the scale but still ahead of most of its G5 peers. Not surprisingly, high on the "admirable" axis but probably would have been higher if they didn't factor attendance into it.

Link to original WSJ web page.

(08-28-2014 05:28 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

Rice on the "weakling" side of the scale but still ahead of most of its G5 peers. Not surprisingly, high on the "admirable" axis but probably would have been higher if they didn't factor attendance into it.

Link to original WSJ web page.

I question how Indiana is so high in the powerhouse scale (right with Northwestern). They should be over with Purdue and ourselves.

It would be interesting to make overlays that show to locations of schools within each conference.

OK...

We're in the top 5 in graduation percentage (about to become #1), and we are the only school in the top 5 to graduate African-Americans at a rate that surpasses our overall rate. Yet we're not as "admirable" as schools like Wisconsin or Clemson? That is laughable in the extreme. Rice is currently the gold standard in FBS academics.

Just to remind everyone:

"Georgia, Notre Dame, Rice, Duke and Utah State were the only schools that had higher GSRs for their African-American football players than for white football players."

"Only Boise State and Rice had overall GSRs for football players that were better overall compared to student-athletes overall."

"Rice and Boston College led the way overall in terms of graduation rates, according to the study."

I even corrected the "North Dame" typo for them. Ha ha.

http://www.southbendtribune.com/sports/c...f6878.html

(08-28-2014 07:31 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  OK...

We're in the top 5 in graduation percentage (about to become #1), and we are the only school in the top 5 to graduate African-Americans at a rate that surpasses our overall rate. Yet we're not as "admirable" as schools like Wisconsin or Clemson? That is laughable in the extreme. Rice is currently the gold standard in FBS academics.

Yeah, the selection criteria are crap. I'm not sure high attendance is necessarily admirable. See, for example, Arkansas.

(08-28-2014 07:31 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  OK...

We're in the top 5 in graduation percentage (about to become #1), and we are the only school in the top 5 to graduate African-Americans at a rate that surpasses our overall rate. Yet we're not as "admirable" as schools like Wisconsin or Clemson? That is laughable in the extreme. Rice is currently the gold standard in FBS academics.

Rice and Stanford are below Wisconsin..

(08-29-2014 09:57 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 07:31 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  OK...

We're in the top 5 in graduation percentage (about to become #1), and we are the only school in the top 5 to graduate African-Americans at a rate that surpasses our overall rate. Yet we're not as "admirable" as schools like Wisconsin or Clemson? That is laughable in the extreme. Rice is currently the gold standard in FBS academics.

Rice and Stanford are below Wisconsin..

What's wrong with Wisconsin? I think they have a very admirable program. On Wisconsin!

(08-29-2014 09:57 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 07:31 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  OK...

We're in the top 5 in graduation percentage (about to become #1), and we are the only school in the top 5 to graduate African-Americans at a rate that surpasses our overall rate. Yet we're not as "admirable" as schools like Wisconsin or Clemson? That is laughable in the extreme. Rice is currently the gold standard in FBS academics.

Rice and Stanford are below Wisconsin..

I also wonder what's wrong with Wisconsin?

And if you read the fine print.... "Off Field rating is a somewhat subjective ranking of six elements: four year Academic Progress Rate, recent history of major NCAA violations and probations, percentage of athletic-department revenues subsidized by student fees and state support, number of players arrested in the off-season, attendance at last season's games, and overall "ick" factor."

(08-29-2014 01:53 PM)NicevilleWRC Wrote:  

(08-29-2014 09:57 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 07:31 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  OK...

We're in the top 5 in graduation percentage (about to become #1), and we are the only school in the top 5 to graduate African-Americans at a rate that surpasses our overall rate. Yet we're not as "admirable" as schools like Wisconsin or Clemson? That is laughable in the extreme. Rice is currently the gold standard in FBS academics.

Rice and Stanford are below Wisconsin..

I also wonder what's wrong with Wisconsin?

And if you read the fine print.... "Off Field rating is a somewhat subjective ranking of six elements: four year Academic Progress Rate, recent history of major NCAA violations and probations, percentage of athletic-department revenues subsidized by student fees and state support, number of players arrested in the off-season, attendance at last season's games, and overall "ick" factor."

+1 - YES!! As you mention, using the factors of subsidies and attendance for the rating of "admirability", I can see why Wisconsin, Stanford and Clemson would have a higher ranking than Rice on their scale. One can argue the merits of the factors for determining the scale, but given their methodology, I can see how some schools would out-rank Rice (just as I can see how Rice out-ranks other programs on the same scale).

(08-29-2014 02:02 PM)CrabCake Wrote:  

(08-29-2014 01:53 PM)NicevilleWRC Wrote:  

(08-29-2014 09:57 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 07:31 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  OK...

We're in the top 5 in graduation percentage (about to become #1), and we are the only school in the top 5 to graduate African-Americans at a rate that surpasses our overall rate. Yet we're not as "admirable" as schools like Wisconsin or Clemson? That is laughable in the extreme. Rice is currently the gold standard in FBS academics.

Rice and Stanford are below Wisconsin..

I also wonder what's wrong with Wisconsin?

And if you read the fine print.... "Off Field rating is a somewhat subjective ranking of six elements: four year Academic Progress Rate, recent history of major NCAA violations and probations, percentage of athletic-department revenues subsidized by student fees and state support, number of players arrested in the off-season, attendance at last season's games, and overall "ick" factor."

+1 - YES!! As you mention, using the factors of subsidies and attendance for the rating of "admirability", I can see why Wisconsin, Stanford and Clemson would have a higher ranking than Rice on their scale. One can argue the merits of the factors for determining the scale, but given their methodology, I can see how some schools would out-rank Rice (just as I can see how Rice out-ranks other programs on the same scale).

What was our "ick" score?

(08-29-2014 02:21 PM)JSA Wrote:  What was our "ick" score?

Todd Graham?

(08-29-2014 02:28 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(08-29-2014 02:21 PM)JSA Wrote:  What was our "ick" score?

Todd Graham?

Add Rick Greenspan to that same "ick".......

(08-29-2014 11:09 AM)CrabCake Wrote:  

(08-29-2014 09:57 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 07:31 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  OK...

We're in the top 5 in graduation percentage (about to become #1), and we are the only school in the top 5 to graduate African-Americans at a rate that surpasses our overall rate. Yet we're not as "admirable" as schools like Wisconsin or Clemson? That is laughable in the extreme. Rice is currently the gold standard in FBS academics.

Rice and Stanford are below Wisconsin..

What's wrong with Wisconsin? I think they have a very admirable program. On Wisconsin!

Oh, I think Wisconsin is a fine school (Clemson, on the other hand...). It's just that Wisconsin's football team has been in trouble more than once in recent years. Hence, I find it hard to stomach that they are more "admirable" than Rice by any set of metrics that prominently features student-athlete classroom achievement.

However, as Niceville stated, the WSJ evaluation includes a variety of other criteria, some of which definitely do not favor our program. Whatever floats the WSJ's boat; their paper, their bull****. But Wisconsin is not nearly as admirable as Rice when it comes to the things that really matter. Not even close.

(08-29-2014 03:40 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  But Wisconsin is not nearly as admirable as Rice when it comes to the things that really matter. Not even close.

OK, I'll bite - please expand on how Rice is far more admirable than Wisconsin when it comes to the things that really matter. What are the factors?

Do I really need to do this? Fine:

Football Graduation Rates: Big Ten
Northwestern 97%
Penn St. 91%
Iowa 82%
Illinois 75%
Ohio St. 74%
Indiana 70%
Michigan 69%
Minnesota 69%
Nebraska 68%
Wisconsin 65%
Michigan St. 64%
Purdue 59%

Top 10 Football Grad Rates: The whole FBS
(Graduation Success Rate)
Northwestern 97%
Notre Dame 97%
Boston College 94%
Miami (Fla.) 94%
Rice 93%
Duke 92%
Penn State 91%
Rutgers 91%
Stanford 90%
Army 88%

That is a HUGE gap. In fact, Wisconsin is near the bottom of the FBS according to the latest data compiled by The Bootleg. I could go further, but I have other things to attend to. Look at the information at the source I have included below.

Source: http://stanford.scout.com/story/1273612-...e-analysis

Note: These figures are from the 2013 study. I didn't think that the 2014 version was out yet, but apparently it is. There are bound to be some differences.

Also:

Grad Rates for African American Football Players: Selected Schools
African American Caucasian Difference
Florida St. 45% 100% -55%
Auburn 54% 95% -41%
Tennessee 53% 93% -40%
Texas A&M 57% 96% -39%
North Carolina St. 51% 89% -38%
Texas 46% 83% -37%
Wisconsin 51% 87% -36%
Arkansas 44% 79% -35%
South Carolina 45% 80% -35%
UCLA 51% 84% -33%
Mississippi 51% 83% -32%
Oklahoma St. 56% 84% -28%
Oregon 49% 76% -27%

Yikes. Remember, Rice is the only top-5-grad-rate school that does even better when it comes to African-Americans graduating.

CUSA= embarrassing weaklings? Yikes.

(08-29-2014 05:29 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  Do I really need to do this? Fine:

Football Graduation Rates: Big Ten
Northwestern 97%
Penn St. 91%
Iowa 82%
Illinois 75%
Ohio St. 74%
Indiana 70%
Michigan 69%
Minnesota 69%
Nebraska 68%
Wisconsin 65%
Michigan St. 64%
Purdue 59%

Top 10 Football Grad Rates: The whole FBS
(Graduation Success Rate)
Northwestern 97%
Notre Dame 97%
Boston College 94%
Miami (Fla.) 94%
Rice 93%
Duke 92%
Penn State 91%
Rutgers 91%
Stanford 90%
Army 88%

That is a HUGE gap. In fact, Wisconsin is near the bottom of the FBS according to the latest data compiled by The Bootleg. I could go further, but I have other things to attend to. Look at the information at the source I have included below.

Source: http://stanford.scout.com/story/1273612-...e-analysis

Note: These figures are from the 2013 study. I didn't think that the 2014 version was out yet, but apparently it is. There are bound to be some differences.

C'mon - you can do better than this. In fact, I would have expected a lot more from a Rice University grad!!

Yes, you are absolutely correct that graduation rates for Rice University athletes are tops in the country - overall and for African-Americans. Excellent - keep up the great work and keep raising the bar for the rest of us!

But here is where I see the weakness of your argument. It appears that the WSJ methodology for establishing admirability (which we all can agree is not scientific) used ".. weighted calculation of every team's academic performance..."; thus, the qualities you deem that "really matter" appear to have been utilized to determine admirability scores that you find "laughable in the extreme." Just saying' this is the way I see it.

Now it's my turn.

Personally, I value funding from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) as something that really matters (I'm guessing, so do members of your Office of Sponsored Research). Earlier this month Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology News (GEN) published a list of the top 50 NIH-funded Universities of 2014. Not surprising, at least to those of us working in the field, Johns Hopkins, Penn and UCSF round out the top 3 spots. The University of Wisconsin-Madision came in at a respectable (or, might you say, admirable?) spot of 17, having received 498 awards totaling $215,637,227. Rice University did not make the list for FY2014 (although the state of Texas was well represented by Baylor College of Medicine at#24, UT Southwestern Med Ctr at #30 and UT MD Anderson Cancer Ctr at #47). The complete list, for your perusal, is here: http://www.genengnews.com/insight-and-in...33/?page=1

Here's the lesson for today - I think it's safe to say, different people/groups value things differently. Thus, in this case, it's not easy to establish superiority of one institution over another. Disclaimer - I do not hold degrees nor have I ever attended classes at Wisconsin or Rice.

Class dismissed and Go Owls - beat Notre Dame!

(08-29-2014 07:39 PM)ausowl Wrote:  CUSA= embarrassing weaklings? Yikes.

Remember, it's membership within an athletic conference - it's not a prison sentence! You can always change conferences (as we have seen so many schools do these past few years).