I honestly think the lady cop was holding her own being reasonable until Barney Fife showed up. Y'all can rationalize all you want but if this man is sitting there minding his own business and not breaking any laws then he has a reasonable expectation to his privacy IMO. The first cops stop should have been the shop keeper to find out specifically why he called - and may have been - and if there was a legitimate reason for the call and subsequent request for ID - and there may have been. If so the next step should have been to explain to the man that he was suspected of some activity that warranted him revealing his identity. Just based on the video though I have to side with this gentleman's expectation to his privacy except to say that common sense should have dictated that he comply and avoid what resulted.

This story doesn't deserve a second

IMO the young man had zero obligation to divulge anything to those cops unless he was being detained. This is the question he should have asked? "Officer....Am I being detained?" If the answer is No...then there is nothing more to do at that point but allow the gentlemen on his way. I am not sure the female officer would have done anything. I think left alone she would have allowed this gentlemen to get his kids and leave(which is what should have happened)....then....Billy Badass showed up. Id fire his ass and make sure he never held any position of authority again.

I will say this though....ANY time one decides to exert their rights in front of an officer?....violence is a possible outcome. You better damn well be ready for them to hurt you if you refuse to comply. This is risk of any type of civil disobedience.

The Twin Cities Daily Planet is now reporting that charges were dropped on July 31:

http://tcdailyplanet.net/news/2014/08/28...es-dropped

I tell my sons that when dealing with cops it'll always be a lose-lose situation for them. The hammer/nail analogy was very appropriate. Especially here in El Paso we have mostly little Napoleons who think they're superman when they pin their badges. I've known quite a few as a firefighter but in this context it's always a different relationship. Personally, I've lived quite a number of years to realize that they received super powers once they pin their badges on their shirts.

And yes, firefighters are loved because we saved lives versus taking them. Even the bad guys get the same treatment.

In NC....You are not under any obligation to give a cop your identity. In fact...you are not under any obligation to answer questions or even speak to them without a warrant...with the exception of being pulled over in a motor vehicle.

I think Minn. has the same laws. Very few states allow the nonsense that NY does.

(08-28-2014 01:49 PM)pharaoh0 Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 01:29 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  Maybe next time he won't be a stupid prick about it and he'll answer one simple question. It's not their fault the store clerk called the cops on the dummy. That's what he gets.

There's probably more to this story than "he was just sitting there" since the owner obviously thought it was necessary to call the cops. But really, when an officer is responds to a call and asks for id, just show it. A fight over an id is just stupid.

Stupid yes... Illegal no...

Per the story the man did not by law have to identify himself.

(08-28-2014 01:57 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 01:39 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 01:29 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  Maybe next time he won't be a stupid prick about it and he'll answer one simple question. It's not their fault the store clerk called the cops on the dummy. That's what he gets.

I disagree. Cops stirring up strife is a very bad thing.

I agree with what you're saying, but according to the story, the store clerk called the cops. They asked his name and he arrogantly told them he didn't have to give it because he didn't break the law. How do they know he didn't break the law?

If the cop has no reasonable suspicion that he did break the law then for all intents and purposes he did not break any law.

(08-28-2014 04:23 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  IMO the young man had zero obligation to divulge anything to those cops unless he was being detained. This is the question he should have asked? "Officer....Am I being detained?" If the answer is No...then there is nothing more to do at that point but allow the gentlemen on his way.

If only our schools would teach kids civics at this level rather than how many holes you can stick a ***** in...

You are spot on. They guy was giving the wrong attitude while doing the right thing. Respect the police but make them respect your rights and *know* the law..

(08-28-2014 04:23 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  IMO the young man had zero obligation to divulge anything to those cops unless he was being detained. This is the question he should have asked? "Officer....Am I being detained?" If the answer is No...then there is nothing more to do at that point but allow the gentlemen on his way. I am not sure the female officer would have done anything. I think left alone she would have allowed this gentlemen to get his kids and leave(which is what should have happened)....then....Billy Badass showed up. Id fire his ass and make sure he never held any position of authority again.

I will say this though....ANY time one decides to exert their rights in front of an officer?....violence is a possible outcome. You better damn well be ready for them to hurt you if you refuse to comply. This is risk of any type of civil disobedience.

I meant to comment on that as well. If they have cause to detain you then that's another situation altogether.

(08-29-2014 01:30 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 04:23 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  IMO the young man had zero obligation to divulge anything to those cops unless he was being detained. This is the question he should have asked? "Officer....Am I being detained?" If the answer is No...then there is nothing more to do at that point but allow the gentlemen on his way.

If only our schools would teach kids civics at this level rather than how many holes you can stick a ***** in...

You are spot on. They guy was giving the wrong attitude while doing the right thing. Respect the police but make them respect your rights and *know* the law..

Something tells me that government schools are not in any hurry to teach kids about their rights. It would be counter productive to controlling them.

(08-29-2014 10:24 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-29-2014 01:30 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 04:23 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  IMO the young man had zero obligation to divulge anything to those cops unless he was being detained. This is the question he should have asked? "Officer....Am I being detained?" If the answer is No...then there is nothing more to do at that point but allow the gentlemen on his way.

If only our schools would teach kids civics at this level rather than how many holes you can stick a ***** in...

You are spot on. They guy was giving the wrong attitude while doing the right thing. Respect the police but make them respect your rights and *know* the law..

Something tells me that government schools are not in any hurry to teach kids about their rights. It would be counter productive to controlling them.

The funny thing is that the radical leftists of the '60s went into education to undo gov't control of citizens.

They're 10x worse.

(08-29-2014 01:24 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 01:49 PM)pharaoh0 Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 01:29 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  Maybe next time he won't be a stupid prick about it and he'll answer one simple question. It's not their fault the store clerk called the cops on the dummy. That's what he gets.

There's probably more to this story than "he was just sitting there" since the owner obviously thought it was necessary to call the cops. But really, when an officer is responds to a call and asks for id, just show it. A fight over an id is just stupid.

Stupid yes... Illegal no...

Per the story the man did not by law have to identify himself.

I'm not saying he did, or that the cops were justified in what they did. But had this man shown a little courtesy then he wouldn't have found himself in the predicament that he did. Unless you simply just despise cops or have something to hide, why wouldn't you identify yourself?