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Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 04:59 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 04:55 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  Texas has no interest in the PAC 12 and their fans have no interest in the PAC 12

The Big 10 is done with MU after MU leaked word that they were talking to the Big 10 which is what set Nebraska into a panic and spoiled the plans by the Big 10 to get the teams they really wanted.....unless you really believe their plan was to get Rutgers and Maryland all along

The Big 10 will never forgive MU for that

And you're in their board room while this is being discussed? 07-coffee3

Listen up, if there is money to be made by the move, it will be done. 04-rock

This is just a thought anyway. Don't get overly worked up about it. 03-phew

Mr. Dodds spoke openly about how Texas preferred the ACC to the PAC in that second round of discussions that went on between the PAC and Oklahoma. He openly said that if Oklahoma went PAC, Texas would go ACC. One doesn't have to be in the board room when these statements are made so publicly. It was at a Chamber of Commerce meeting that he was speaking to. Perhaps you need to do a little more research and a little less smack talking when folks challenge you.

There is money to be made in a partial membership move to the ACC. The LHN is with ESPN. The PAC fully owns it's own Network. That was a major sticking point. Travelling two time zones west for that many games was also a big deal. Travelling East is easier in that regard than travelling West.
08-25-2014 07:32 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 09:33 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(08-24-2014 05:18 PM)goofus Wrote:  If the big 12 is splitting up, I can almost guarantee that all 10 schools would find a P5 home just to avoid lawsuits from schools like Baylor.

I would only point out that there are currently three schools who were in the BCS who were left out of the power leagues and they apparently don't have grounds to sue. Not saying this would or would not happen, but I don't think the threat of a lawsuit is going to force a conference to take a school they otherwise don't want.

(08-24-2014 10:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Now to the main point. The only way Texas heads to the PAC is if the PACN sells a % of itself to ESPN. Texas is tied to the Mouse until 2031 and even for 40 year olds that's a long time. For me it is an eternity.

Just a point to note: there is an out-clause with the LHN if Texas were to join a conference. The LHN isn't keeping them where the are contractually. It is keeping them there because it is what they want.

If they join the ACC, which doesn't have a Network right now, then they still have the best of both worlds. At that point they get to have their own Network OR ESPN has to give them a considerable buy out in order to fold the LHN into a brand new ACC Network.
08-25-2014 07:34 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 07:34 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  
(08-24-2014 10:36 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(08-24-2014 10:10 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  
(08-24-2014 09:49 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  
(08-24-2014 05:18 PM)goofus Wrote:  

I believe you have that backwards. The remaining Big12 schools would cherry pick the AAC and MWC, and retain the Big12 name and most of it contracts for bowl games etc. .

Exactly right, The B12 first off won't lose everyone a once, they like the AAC last time will fill in from below. The top of AAC and MWC would get called up and maybe BYU. They currently have their bowl deals locked up, depending on how they are written, they wouldn't lose them short term.

Until the GoR runs out, they will "lose" everyone at once or they will lose no one at all.

Folks aren't waiting that long. All this realignment mess has happened in like three years. You REALLY think everyone is waiting for a decade or more to finish this?
08-25-2014 07:35 PM
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
Texans are very big on being Texans- Don't mess w/Texas, Everything's bigger in Texas, and on and on. And I'm talking about residents of the state, not just fans of UT. Their gov brags about seceding from the union and Texans cheer. There's a very strong, very self-centered point of view amongst Texans. Being a "Texan" is a big deal.

I can't see a group of people who are that invested in all things cowboy and western ever asking a bunch of Left Coast, surf board riding hippies if they can come and be a part of their group. Texans like everything being about them, and having their flagship program join somebody else's conference just won't go, regardless of the money. Avocados are for making Guacomole, not for putting on a turkey wrap.
08-25-2014 07:45 PM
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USFRamenu Away
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Post: #25
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 07:32 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 04:59 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 04:55 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  Texas has no interest in the PAC 12 and their fans have no interest in the PAC 12

The Big 10 is done with MU after MU leaked word that they were talking to the Big 10 which is what set Nebraska into a panic and spoiled the plans by the Big 10 to get the teams they really wanted.....unless you really believe their plan was to get Rutgers and Maryland all along

The Big 10 will never forgive MU for that

And you're in their board room while this is being discussed? 07-coffee3

Listen up, if there is money to be made by the move, it will be done. 04-rock

This is just a thought anyway. Don't get overly worked up about it. 03-phew

Mr. Dodds spoke openly about how Texas preferred the ACC to the PAC in that second round of discussions that went on between the PAC and Oklahoma. He openly said that if Oklahoma went PAC, Texas would go ACC. One doesn't have to be in the board room when these statements are made so publicly. It was at a Chamber of Commerce meeting that he was speaking to. Perhaps you need to do a little more research and a little less smack talking when folks challenge you.

There is money to be made in a partial membership move to the ACC. The LHN is with ESPN. The PAC fully owns it's own Network. That was a major sticking point. Travelling two time zones west for that many games was also a big deal. Travelling East is easier in that regard than travelling West.

Lighten up Francis. 03-razz

I'm not smack talking. I'n guessing just like you and everyone else. Now if you put stock in anything said a year or two ago, you're doing just that, guessing. Dodds says a lot of junk. He's like a politician, he spewls garbage out of his mouth every few seconds. Some of it sticks to the floor, some doesn't.

I've never claimed to be an expert. I've also never claimed to know what's going to happen. I do know two things. Every move in Expansion has been about money. Every future move will most likely be about money.

The LHN is like a sinking ship. It's leaking money everywhere. ESPN is not happy with it. That isn't a secret. My only question is how much longer will they pay for the LHN just to keep Texas in the fold.

I agree, Texas could go Indi and make it work. I think that's the only path beyond joining the Pac. They will not join the ACC as a full member when they can do a half schedule like ND and thus with ND become 1 memeber for the ACC. The ACC then only needs 1 more team to make the 16 team schedule work.

If Texas leaves the Big 12, they will also lose Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to the Pac. The Pac want's Oklahoma and well Oklahoma State will tag along.

Kansas will do what's best for Kansas. If that's going to the B1G then so be it however, the SEC has it's eye on Kansas as well. I'm still guessing but that's a safe guess.

The ACC or SEC will grab WVU. WVU can be a bridge for UofL for the ACC and it's 15th team. WVU can add to the SEC's footprint and be it's 16 team.

The B1G will try to get Kansas and I'm not sure if they go for UConn or try for Missouri. I think if they take Kansas, they try for Missouri. If they lose Kansas, they may take Kansas State to increase the footprint but that's more of a long shot. Oh yeah, if the SEC takes WVU, then you can bet that the ACC takes UConn finally.

Those are my rambling thoughts. Hope you enjoyed them. 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2014 07:53 PM by USFRamenu.)
08-25-2014 07:48 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 07:45 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  Texans are very big on being Texans- Don't mess w/Texas, Everything's bigger in Texas, and on and on. And I'm talking about residents of the state, not just fans of UT. Their gov brags about seceding from the union and Texans cheer. There's a very strong, very self-centered point of view amongst Texans. Being a "Texan" is a big deal.

I can't see a group of people who are that invested in all things cowboy and western ever asking a bunch of Left Coast, surf board riding hippies if they can come and be a part of their group. Texans like everything being about them, and having their flagship program join somebody else's conference just won't go, regardless of the money. Avocados are for making Guacomole, not for putting on a turkey wrap.

All the same Austin, Texas is an anomaly all of it's own within that State. The major battle going on right now between the Governor of Texas and the Democrats, is between him and Democrats from the Austin area.

You are correct to a degree though, which is why a partial contract with the ACC much like the one Notre Dame has would confer a sense of "special" upon The University of Texas that would fit their brand of egotistical vanity just perfectly.

You take Baylor and TCU, sticking them in a conference that already has plenty of schools that are religious based or have histories of it and that becomes a better fit.

In a non-athletic sense, it ties in Texas with the part of the country where much of the money resides. The East Coast.

It is a scenario that is very feasible. You stick Texas Tech out West and suddenly the State of Texas has itself in three of the four Major Conferences. That kind of bragging rights also suits Texas which is all about going Big. College football is no longer regional, and despite what most people think, neither is Texas.
08-25-2014 07:52 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 07:48 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 07:32 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 04:59 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 04:55 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  Texas has no interest in the PAC 12 and their fans have no interest in the PAC 12

The Big 10 is done with MU after MU leaked word that they were talking to the Big 10 which is what set Nebraska into a panic and spoiled the plans by the Big 10 to get the teams they really wanted.....unless you really believe their plan was to get Rutgers and Maryland all along

The Big 10 will never forgive MU for that

And you're in their board room while this is being discussed? 07-coffee3

Listen up, if there is money to be made by the move, it will be done. 04-rock

This is just a thought anyway. Don't get overly worked up about it. 03-phew

Mr. Dodds spoke openly about how Texas preferred the ACC to the PAC in that second round of discussions that went on between the PAC and Oklahoma. He openly said that if Oklahoma went PAC, Texas would go ACC. One doesn't have to be in the board room when these statements are made so publicly. It was at a Chamber of Commerce meeting that he was speaking to. Perhaps you need to do a little more research and a little less smack talking when folks challenge you.

There is money to be made in a partial membership move to the ACC. The LHN is with ESPN. The PAC fully owns it's own Network. That was a major sticking point. Travelling two time zones west for that many games was also a big deal. Travelling East is easier in that regard than travelling West.

Lighten up Francis. 03-razz

I'm not smack talking. I'n guessing just like you and everyone else. Now if you put stock in anything said a year or two ago, you're doing just that, guessing. Dodds says a lot of junk. He's like a politician, he spewls garbage out of his mouth every few seconds. Some of it sticks to the floor, some doesn't.

I've never claimed to be an expert. I've also never claimed to know what's going to happen. I do know two things. Every move in Expansion has been about money. Every future move will most likely be about money.

The LHN is like a sinking ship. It's leaking money everywhere. ESPN is not happy with it. That isn't a secret. My only question is how much longer will they pay for the LHN just to keep Texas in the fold.

I agree, Texas could go Indi and make it work. I think that's the only path beyond joining the Pac. They will not join the ACC as a full member when they can do a half schedule like ND and thus with ND become 1 memeber for the ACC. The ACC then only needs 1 more team to make the 16 team schedule work.

If Texas leaves the Big 12, they will also lose Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to the Pac. The Pac want's Oklahoma and well Oklahoma State will tag along.

Kansas will do what's best for Kansas. If that's going to the B1G then so be it however, the SEC has it's eye on Kansas as well. I'm still guessing but that's a safe guess.

The ACC or SEC will grab WVU. WVU can be a bridge for UofL for the ACC and it's 15th team. WVU can add to the SEC's footprint and be it's 16 team.

The B1G will try to get Kansas and I'm not sure if they go for UConn or try for Missouri. I think if they take Kansas, they try for Missouri. If they lose Kansas, they may take Kansas State to increase the footprint but that's more of a long shot.

Those are my rambling thoughts. Hope you enjoyed them. 04-cheers

I am very much at ease, so let's not go there.

Nice to see that you see the value in Texas going partial contract with ACC instead of full contract anywhere else.

Texas doesn't lose Oklahoma if they go in different directions in terms of conference affiliation. That is a misrepresentation made by folks who do not study their history. In this case it is not even ancient history. Do you know how old the Big 12 is? Do you know how old the Red River Rivalry is? That Rivalry does not require conference membership. The amount of money involved in that rivalry assures that it will survive a conference split between the two schools.

Norman, Oklahoma is less than three hours away from Dallas in drive time. They don't need to be in a Texas conference in order to recruit Texas talent from the largest market of talent in the State of Texas. They never have needed that. The RRR should be enough assurance for folks who do not understand the geography.

We agree on the LHN, I believe that Texas is using it solely now as leverage to get what it wants. Eventually it will get wrapped into an ACC Network but only after Texas gets what they want.

Don't take this the wrong way though when I say this but....0 plus 0 does not equal 1. Notre Dame and Texas do not equal one for ACC football. They equal zero. Two schools would have to come with Texas in order for the ACC to get to 16.

Kansas is definitely Big Ten when this happens but instead of thinking that Missouri would like to leave the SEC and that the Big Ten would want to take them so that the SEC could land an equivalent or better program, think about Oklahoma in the Big Ten. That is more likely the outcome than the Big Ten taking Kansas and Missouri.

I know Oklahoma has been all about a move to the PAC but without Texas they were never willing to take the jump themselves. That is because the travel issue truly is an issue. It is not an issue if they join the Big Ten. In fact, they should be dominant in the Big Ten AND they serious upgrade their academic cred in that circle of people.
08-25-2014 08:01 PM
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USFRamenu Away
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Post: #28
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 08:01 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I am very much at ease, so let's not go there.

Nice to see that you see the value in Texas going partial contract with ACC instead of full contract anywhere else.

Texas doesn't lose Oklahoma if they go in different directions in terms of conference affiliation. That is a misrepresentation made by folks who do not study their history. In this case it is not even ancient history. Do you know how old the Big 12 is? Do you know how old the Red River Rivalry is? That Rivalry does not require conference membership. The amount of money involved in that rivalry assures that it will survive a conference split between the two schools.

Norman, Oklahoma is less than three hours away from Dallas in drive time. They don't need to be in a Texas conference in order to recruit Texas talent from the largest market of talent in the State of Texas. They never have needed that. The RRR should be enough assurance for folks who do not understand the geography.

We agree on the LHN, I believe that Texas is using it solely now as leverage to get what it wants. Eventually it will get wrapped into an ACC Network but only after Texas gets what they want.

Don't take this the wrong way though when I say this but....0 plus 0 does not equal 1. Notre Dame and Texas do not equal one for ACC football. They equal zero. Two schools would have to come with Texas in order for the ACC to get to 16.

Kansas is definitely Big Ten when this happens but instead of thinking that Missouri would like to leave the SEC and that the Big Ten would want to take them so that the SEC could land an equivalent or better program, think about Oklahoma in the Big Ten. That is more likely the outcome than the Big Ten taking Kansas and Missouri.

I know Oklahoma has been all about a move to the PAC but without Texas they were never willing to take the jump themselves. That is because the travel issue truly is an issue. It is not an issue if they join the Big Ten. In fact, they should be dominant in the Big Ten AND they serious upgrade their academic cred in that circle of people.

We agree on several things.

1, Neither is takng it all that serious.
2, Texas is Texas and they will do what is good for Texas.
3, The LHN is failing. (It bieng reworked as the ACC network would be a boon for ESPN).
4, The Big 12 will implode without Texas.

You may be right about Oklahoma looking to the B1G however, don't forget about little brother. Oklahoma are more closely tied together then Kansas and Kansas Stae are. Whle I could see a deal between the B1G and the SEC to split them It would make them to make them both happy. That would actually help both the B1G and the SEC.

The SEC gets the Oklahoma and Kansas Market as does the B1G. Nebraska Gets some old playmates back and so does Missouri. Interesting theaory and probably what will happen. I honestly never thought of it like that.

The Pac would be a big loser in that event. The problem then is who takes Baylor, Iowa State and TCU. WVU would be taken by the ACC in a second.

So to make Baylor, Iowa State and to a lesser extent TCU happy, could you see them in the AAC as a newly annointed Entitled Conference? I doubt those teams go to the Pac.

Honest question. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2014 08:43 PM by USFRamenu.)
08-25-2014 08:37 PM
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virgosports Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 08:37 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 08:01 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I am very much at ease, so let's not go there.

Nice to see that you see the value in Texas going partial contract with ACC instead of full contract anywhere else.

Texas doesn't lose Oklahoma if they go in different directions in terms of conference affiliation. That is a misrepresentation made by folks who do not study their history. In this case it is not even ancient history. Do you know how old the Big 12 is? Do you know how old the Red River Rivalry is? That Rivalry does not require conference membership. The amount of money involved in that rivalry assures that it will survive a conference split between the two schools.

Norman, Oklahoma is less than three hours away from Dallas in drive time. They don't need to be in a Texas conference in order to recruit Texas talent from the largest market of talent in the State of Texas. They never have needed that. The RRR should be enough assurance for folks who do not understand the geography.

We agree on the LHN, I believe that Texas is using it solely now as leverage to get what it wants. Eventually it will get wrapped into an ACC Network but only after Texas gets what they want.

Don't take this the wrong way though when I say this but....0 plus 0 does not equal 1. Notre Dame and Texas do not equal one for ACC football. They equal zero. Two schools would have to come with Texas in order for the ACC to get to 16.

Kansas is definitely Big Ten when this happens but instead of thinking that Missouri would like to leave the SEC and that the Big Ten would want to take them so that the SEC could land an equivalent or better program, think about Oklahoma in the Big Ten. That is more likely the outcome than the Big Ten taking Kansas and Missouri.

I know Oklahoma has been all about a move to the PAC but without Texas they were never willing to take the jump themselves. That is because the travel issue truly is an issue. It is not an issue if they join the Big Ten. In fact, they should be dominant in the Big Ten AND they serious upgrade their academic cred in that circle of people.

We agree on several things.

1, Neither is takng it all that serious.
2, Texas is Texas and they will do what is good for Texas.
3, The LHN is failing. (It bieng reworked as the ACC network would be a boon for ESPN).
4, The Big 12 will implode without Texas.

You may be right about Oklahoma looking to the B1G however, don't forget about little brother. Oklahoma are more closely tied together then Kansas and Kansas Stae are. Whle I could see a deal between the B1G and the SEC to split them It would make them to make them both happy. That would actually help both the B1G and the SEC.

The SEC gets the Oklahoma and Kansas Market as does the B1G. Nebraska Gets some old playmates back and so does Missouri. Interesting theaory and probably what will happen. I honestly never thought of it like that.

The Pac would be a big loser in that event. The problem then is who takes Baylor, Iowa State and TCU. WVU would be taken by the ACC in a second.

So to make Baylor, Iowa State and to a lesser extent TCU happy, could you see them in the AAC as a newly annointed Entitled Conference? I doubt those teams go to the Pac.

Honest question. 07-coffee3

If the idea is about Texas being independent then why can't they be independent and have a ND type deal with B12 instead of going to ACC or P10 etc. B12 then can get BYU as football only to match Texas Olympic teams and then b12 can add any combination of two schools talked about like Cincy, Memphis, Houston, Tulane, Ucf, usf, UCONN etc to get the championship game. Texas would be required to play 5 games - 1 being OK and rotating 4 others home and home. Oklahoma becomes the big dog. BYU with football only means no sun issues with Olympic sports which stay with WCC. Texas can have their TV deal like ND, the conference stays together, there is championship game, ESPN is probably happy, Texas feels like they are top dog in Texas again, BYU feel equal to UTah again etc etc etc.
08-25-2014 09:10 PM
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USFRamenu Away
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Post: #30
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 09:10 PM)virgosports Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 08:37 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  We agree on several things.

1, Neither is takng it all that serious.
2, Texas is Texas and they will do what is good for Texas.
3, The LHN is failing. (It bieng reworked as the ACC network would be a boon for ESPN).
4, The Big 12 will implode without Texas.

You may be right about Oklahoma looking to the B1G however, don't forget about little brother. Oklahoma are more closely tied together then Kansas and Kansas Stae are. Whle I could see a deal between the B1G and the SEC to split them It would make them to make them both happy. That would actually help both the B1G and the SEC.

The SEC gets the Oklahoma and Kansas Market as does the B1G. Nebraska Gets some old playmates back and so does Missouri. Interesting theaory and probably what will happen. I honestly never thought of it like that.

The Pac would be a big loser in that event. The problem then is who takes Baylor, Iowa State and TCU. WVU would be taken by the ACC in a second.

So to make Baylor, Iowa State and to a lesser extent TCU happy, could you see them in the AAC as a newly annointed Entitled Conference? I doubt those teams go to the Pac.

Honest question. 07-coffee3

If the idea is about Texas being independent then why can't they be independent and have a ND type deal with B12 instead of going to ACC or P10 etc. B12 then can get BYU as football only to match Texas Olympic teams and then b12 can add any combination of two schools talked about like Cincy, Memphis, Houston, Tulane, Ucf, usf, UCONN etc to get the championship game. Texas would be required to play 5 games - 1 being OK and rotating 4 others home and home. Oklahoma becomes the big dog. BYU with football only means no sun issues with Olympic sports which stay with WCC. Texas can have their TV deal like ND, the conference stays together, there is championship game, ESPN is probably happy, Texas feels like they are top dog in Texas again, BYU feel equal to UTah again etc etc etc.

The problem is that the B1G and SEC are going to move to 16 teams as will the ACC and the PAC eventually. The Big 12 will be ripped apart if Texas leaves. That's why Teaxs being an associate member isn't being discussed. If Texas leaves there is no Big 12.
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2014 09:22 PM by USFRamenu.)
08-25-2014 09:20 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 08:37 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 08:01 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I am very much at ease, so let's not go there.

Nice to see that you see the value in Texas going partial contract with ACC instead of full contract anywhere else.

Texas doesn't lose Oklahoma if they go in different directions in terms of conference affiliation. That is a misrepresentation made by folks who do not study their history. In this case it is not even ancient history. Do you know how old the Big 12 is? Do you know how old the Red River Rivalry is? That Rivalry does not require conference membership. The amount of money involved in that rivalry assures that it will survive a conference split between the two schools.

Norman, Oklahoma is less than three hours away from Dallas in drive time. They don't need to be in a Texas conference in order to recruit Texas talent from the largest market of talent in the State of Texas. They never have needed that. The RRR should be enough assurance for folks who do not understand the geography.

We agree on the LHN, I believe that Texas is using it solely now as leverage to get what it wants. Eventually it will get wrapped into an ACC Network but only after Texas gets what they want.

Don't take this the wrong way though when I say this but....0 plus 0 does not equal 1. Notre Dame and Texas do not equal one for ACC football. They equal zero. Two schools would have to come with Texas in order for the ACC to get to 16.

Kansas is definitely Big Ten when this happens but instead of thinking that Missouri would like to leave the SEC and that the Big Ten would want to take them so that the SEC could land an equivalent or better program, think about Oklahoma in the Big Ten. That is more likely the outcome than the Big Ten taking Kansas and Missouri.

I know Oklahoma has been all about a move to the PAC but without Texas they were never willing to take the jump themselves. That is because the travel issue truly is an issue. It is not an issue if they join the Big Ten. In fact, they should be dominant in the Big Ten AND they serious upgrade their academic cred in that circle of people.

We agree on several things.

1, Neither is takng it all that serious.
2, Texas is Texas and they will do what is good for Texas.
3, The LHN is failing. (It bieng reworked as the ACC network would be a boon for ESPN).
4, The Big 12 will implode without Texas.

You may be right about Oklahoma looking to the B1G however, don't forget about little brother. Oklahoma are more closely tied together then Kansas and Kansas Stae are. Whle I could see a deal between the B1G and the SEC to split them It would make them to make them both happy. That would actually help both the B1G and the SEC.

The SEC gets the Oklahoma and Kansas Market as does the B1G. Nebraska Gets some old playmates back and so does Missouri. Interesting theaory and probably what will happen. I honestly never thought of it like that.

The Pac would be a big loser in that event. The problem then is who takes Baylor, Iowa State and TCU. WVU would be taken by the ACC in a second.

So to make Baylor, Iowa State and to a lesser extent TCU happy, could you see them in the AAC as a newly annointed Entitled Conference? I doubt those teams go to the Pac.

Honest question. 07-coffee3

Baylor and TCU to go with Texas to the ACC. Baylor has the all around Athletic Department that could best take advantage of the ACC having the most supported sports of any college athletic conference. TCU is based in DFW which is a boon in itself IF you are moving heavily into the State of Texas. The ACC might prefer to get WVU but I think Texas holds many of the cards right now and in the end, WVU is a great school to group up with Tennessee in the SEC.

Tennessee will need it's own division within the SEC's four divisions in order for it's status as an Elite program to be realized again. It has the following, it has the Stadium and with a proper path to a future SEC Tournament it will once again be on equal terms for recruiting against all of the SEC schools to the South. You put Tennessee with Kentucky, Missouri and West Virginia and you see a division that Tennessee can lead but still be challenged in.

I do think Oklahoma State goes to the SEC for the same reason. They make a good complimentary program to go along with LSU, Texas A&M and Arkansas. They don't shake the hierarchy as much as Oklahoma would. The SEC doesn't need anymore Elite football programs. Oklahoma beat Alabama, you really think the Tide wants to see them allowed into the SEC so it can recruit equally in the South as well as in Dallas/Ft. Worth? No way.


The last part of my scenario is the part where most people have problems stomaching. I understand why they cant see it yet but that doesn't mean it doesn't make perfect sense. The PAC already tried to preempt "The Big Plan". They tried to grab more in their Texoma 4 attempt than any other conference had up until that time. They were trying to beat everyone to the punch for the biggest move they could possibly pull off due to geography issues.

They failed, Texas doesn't want to go West. To grab Texas Tech and their new flashy program and it's new flashy coach would be a bigger gain than most people realize at this point. Texas Tech has a very bright future and as the sole representative of the State of Texas in the PAC, they will be raised to a status similar to that of Texas A&M. By going along with this plan they will be assured a protected rivalry game against Texas every single year. That is something that The Aggies do NOT have. Kansas State and Iowa State? Well, they can be leveraged because if they don't go along with this now then there is no saying what happens to them when the GoR runs out in a decade. It is self preservation for them to go along with this.

Why would the PAC take it? Money offered by a Network or multiple Networks. We are talking about the PAC suddenly having three locations in the Central Time Zone. That means they compete for early game programming. That is something they do not do now so that all by itself is worth a very strong upgrade in their TV Contracts. That deserves a particular upgrade but that upgrade will be even higher than the value of those Central Time Zone possibilities because the PAC is the conference that will have to be paid off for this to happen. Massive pay day for the PAC if they do this.

All 10 teams get placed, a dissolution vote can be achieved without having the terrible PR of having any of the schools vote against the dissolution.
08-25-2014 09:29 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
When it comes to why Texas would prefer Partial Membership in the ACC rather than the Big 12? Multiple reasons but one folks are not touching upon is that the most profitable Athletic Department in the country is in the Major Athletic Conference that supports the least amount of sports of any of the Major Athletic Conferences. It is no surprise that ACC schools are often ranked highly in the Directorship Competition. They support more sports.
08-25-2014 09:31 PM
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BruceMcF Online
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RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 07:35 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Folks aren't waiting that long. All this realignment mess has happened in like three years. You REALLY think everyone is waiting for a decade or more to finish this?
No, all this realignment mess has not "happened in like three years" ... its just the latest wave that has happened in like three years.

Like when the big Eastern Independents decided that joining a conference would be better for them ... like when the SWC fell apart ... these things keep happening, but at the top level they don't happen continuously, they happen in a rush, and then things settle down for a while.

So the next wave of Power Conference realignment isn't going to "finish this", its just going to be the next wave, and after that will come another period of bedding the changes in. Waiting a decade or so for the next wave of Power Conference realignment would be pretty close to par for the course, since the rise of "football factory" programs in the 1950's.
08-25-2014 09:34 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 09:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 08:37 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 08:01 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I am very much at ease, so let's not go there.

Nice to see that you see the value in Texas going partial contract with ACC instead of full contract anywhere else.

Texas doesn't lose Oklahoma if they go in different directions in terms of conference affiliation. That is a misrepresentation made by folks who do not study their history. In this case it is not even ancient history. Do you know how old the Big 12 is? Do you know how old the Red River Rivalry is? That Rivalry does not require conference membership. The amount of money involved in that rivalry assures that it will survive a conference split between the two schools.

Norman, Oklahoma is less than three hours away from Dallas in drive time. They don't need to be in a Texas conference in order to recruit Texas talent from the largest market of talent in the State of Texas. They never have needed that. The RRR should be enough assurance for folks who do not understand the geography.

We agree on the LHN, I believe that Texas is using it solely now as leverage to get what it wants. Eventually it will get wrapped into an ACC Network but only after Texas gets what they want.

Don't take this the wrong way though when I say this but....0 plus 0 does not equal 1. Notre Dame and Texas do not equal one for ACC football. They equal zero. Two schools would have to come with Texas in order for the ACC to get to 16.

Kansas is definitely Big Ten when this happens but instead of thinking that Missouri would like to leave the SEC and that the Big Ten would want to take them so that the SEC could land an equivalent or better program, think about Oklahoma in the Big Ten. That is more likely the outcome than the Big Ten taking Kansas and Missouri.

I know Oklahoma has been all about a move to the PAC but without Texas they were never willing to take the jump themselves. That is because the travel issue truly is an issue. It is not an issue if they join the Big Ten. In fact, they should be dominant in the Big Ten AND they serious upgrade their academic cred in that circle of people.

We agree on several things.

1, Neither is takng it all that serious.
2, Texas is Texas and they will do what is good for Texas.
3, The LHN is failing. (It bieng reworked as the ACC network would be a boon for ESPN).
4, The Big 12 will implode without Texas.

You may be right about Oklahoma looking to the B1G however, don't forget about little brother. Oklahoma are more closely tied together then Kansas and Kansas Stae are. Whle I could see a deal between the B1G and the SEC to split them It would make them to make them both happy. That would actually help both the B1G and the SEC.

The SEC gets the Oklahoma and Kansas Market as does the B1G. Nebraska Gets some old playmates back and so does Missouri. Interesting theaory and probably what will happen. I honestly never thought of it like that.

The Pac would be a big loser in that event. The problem then is who takes Baylor, Iowa State and TCU. WVU would be taken by the ACC in a second.

So to make Baylor, Iowa State and to a lesser extent TCU happy, could you see them in the AAC as a newly annointed Entitled Conference? I doubt those teams go to the Pac.

Honest question. 07-coffee3

Baylor and TCU to go with Texas to the ACC. Baylor has the all around Athletic Department that could best take advantage of the ACC having the most supported sports of any college athletic conference. TCU is based in DFW which is a boon in itself IF you are moving heavily into the State of Texas. The ACC might prefer to get WVU but I think Texas holds many of the cards right now and in the end, WVU is a great school to group up with Tennessee in the SEC.

Tennessee will need it's own division within the SEC's four divisions in order for it's status as an Elite program to be realized again. It has the following, it has the Stadium and with a proper path to a future SEC Tournament it will once again be on equal terms for recruiting against all of the SEC schools to the South. You put Tennessee with Kentucky, Missouri and West Virginia and you see a division that Tennessee can lead but still be challenged in.

I do think Oklahoma State goes to the SEC for the same reason. They make a good complimentary program to go along with LSU, Texas A&M and Arkansas. They don't shake the hierarchy as much as Oklahoma would. The SEC doesn't need anymore Elite football programs. Oklahoma beat Alabama, you really think the Tide wants to see them allowed into the SEC so it can recruit equally in the South as well as in Dallas/Ft. Worth? No way.


The last part of my scenario is the part where most people have problems stomaching. I understand why they cant see it yet but that doesn't mean it doesn't make perfect sense. The PAC already tried to preempt "The Big Plan". They tried to grab more in their Texoma 4 attempt than any other conference had up until that time. They were trying to beat everyone to the punch for the biggest move they could possibly pull off due to geography issues.

They failed, Texas doesn't want to go West. To grab Texas Tech and their new flashy program and it's new flashy coach would be a bigger gain than most people realize at this point. Texas Tech has a very bright future and as the sole representative of the State of Texas in the PAC, they will be raised to a status similar to that of Texas A&M. By going along with this plan they will be assured a protected rivalry game against Texas every single year. That is something that The Aggies do NOT have. Kansas State and Iowa State? Well, they can be leveraged because if they don't go along with this now then there is no saying what happens to them when the GoR runs out in a decade. It is self preservation for them to go along with this.

Why would the PAC take it? Money offered by a Network or multiple Networks. We are talking about the PAC suddenly having three locations in the Central Time Zone. That means they compete for early game programming. That is something they do not do now so that all by itself is worth a very strong upgrade in their TV Contracts. That deserves a particular upgrade but that upgrade will be even higher than the value of those Central Time Zone possibilities because the PAC is the conference that will have to be paid off for this to happen. Massive pay day for the PAC if they do this.

All 10 teams get placed, a dissolution vote can be achieved without having the terrible PR of having any of the schools vote against the dissolution.

Oklahoma State to the SEC only has an outside chance at best. W.V.U. is too far down the priorities list to make it at 16, 18, or 20. You really need to drop those notions as they don't fit the SEC's agenda, period.

Maybe, if there is a breakup of the Big 12, Oklahoma would choose the suicide of Big 10 membership and totally alienate their recruiting base, but even that would be a long shot. The last time Okies were caught in a hard spot (the Dust Bowl days) they headed West. My hunch is that if they went anywhere that moved them away from their fan base it would be West.

And really H1 there aren't enough folks in Kansas and Oklahoma together to be worth it to the Big 10. Besides many in Kansas tune into the Big 10 anyway. The Sooner's national draw would help, but the Sooner's sans their recruiting grounds won't be a plus for the Big 10 or Oklahoma for very long. I think Delany adds two more to the East for the money.

The SEC is looking east for the same reasons.
08-25-2014 09:48 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 09:34 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 07:35 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Folks aren't waiting that long. All this realignment mess has happened in like three years. You REALLY think everyone is waiting for a decade or more to finish this?
No, all this realignment mess has not "happened in like three years" ... its just the latest wave that has happened in like three years.

Like when the big Eastern Independents decided that joining a conference would be better for them ... like when the SWC fell apart ... these things keep happening, but at the top level they don't happen continuously, they happen in a rush, and then things settle down for a while.

So the next wave of Power Conference realignment isn't going to "finish this", its just going to be the next wave, and after that will come another period of bedding the changes in. Waiting a decade or so for the next wave of Power Conference realignment would be pretty close to par for the course, since the rise of "football factory" programs in the 1950's.

http://newsok.com/conference-realignment...le/3468100

This is a nice timeline from a particular perspective that matters for this discussion.

Of course there was realignment before but that was decidedly regional expansion where as expansion in the past three years has been about taking these conferences from their specific regions and into new regions thus they were more National in scope.

There was a much different feel to realignment lately as there was in the past. The ACC vs Big East realignment was a battle to the death over the East Coast. It consisted of differing regions but it was still a battle over a region.


The point is that realignments have happened for different reasons lately. It has been part of a larger plan and the preemptive PAC maneuver was proof of that. The time of small, individual additions was over. Movement towards a larger goal was underway. Sixteen was the goal and they wanted to be first at getting there. They wanted to choose their fate rather than inevitably having it chosen for them.

So since this plan dates 2-3 years, it is happening much more quickly than previous realignment. Thus the idea of it lasting another 10 years is a pretty silly concept.

If you don't think there is a difference, then just look at the difference between the addition of Penn State of 1990 all by itself and the additions of Maryland and Rutgers of recent.

They are happening for different reasons.
08-25-2014 10:05 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 09:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 09:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 08:37 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 08:01 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I am very much at ease, so let's not go there.

Nice to see that you see the value in Texas going partial contract with ACC instead of full contract anywhere else.

Texas doesn't lose Oklahoma if they go in different directions in terms of conference affiliation. That is a misrepresentation made by folks who do not study their history. In this case it is not even ancient history. Do you know how old the Big 12 is? Do you know how old the Red River Rivalry is? That Rivalry does not require conference membership. The amount of money involved in that rivalry assures that it will survive a conference split between the two schools.

Norman, Oklahoma is less than three hours away from Dallas in drive time. They don't need to be in a Texas conference in order to recruit Texas talent from the largest market of talent in the State of Texas. They never have needed that. The RRR should be enough assurance for folks who do not understand the geography.

We agree on the LHN, I believe that Texas is using it solely now as leverage to get what it wants. Eventually it will get wrapped into an ACC Network but only after Texas gets what they want.

Don't take this the wrong way though when I say this but....0 plus 0 does not equal 1. Notre Dame and Texas do not equal one for ACC football. They equal zero. Two schools would have to come with Texas in order for the ACC to get to 16.

Kansas is definitely Big Ten when this happens but instead of thinking that Missouri would like to leave the SEC and that the Big Ten would want to take them so that the SEC could land an equivalent or better program, think about Oklahoma in the Big Ten. That is more likely the outcome than the Big Ten taking Kansas and Missouri.

I know Oklahoma has been all about a move to the PAC but without Texas they were never willing to take the jump themselves. That is because the travel issue truly is an issue. It is not an issue if they join the Big Ten. In fact, they should be dominant in the Big Ten AND they serious upgrade their academic cred in that circle of people.

We agree on several things.

1, Neither is takng it all that serious.
2, Texas is Texas and they will do what is good for Texas.
3, The LHN is failing. (It bieng reworked as the ACC network would be a boon for ESPN).
4, The Big 12 will implode without Texas.

You may be right about Oklahoma looking to the B1G however, don't forget about little brother. Oklahoma are more closely tied together then Kansas and Kansas Stae are. Whle I could see a deal between the B1G and the SEC to split them It would make them to make them both happy. That would actually help both the B1G and the SEC.

The SEC gets the Oklahoma and Kansas Market as does the B1G. Nebraska Gets some old playmates back and so does Missouri. Interesting theaory and probably what will happen. I honestly never thought of it like that.

The Pac would be a big loser in that event. The problem then is who takes Baylor, Iowa State and TCU. WVU would be taken by the ACC in a second.

So to make Baylor, Iowa State and to a lesser extent TCU happy, could you see them in the AAC as a newly annointed Entitled Conference? I doubt those teams go to the Pac.

Honest question. 07-coffee3

Baylor and TCU to go with Texas to the ACC. Baylor has the all around Athletic Department that could best take advantage of the ACC having the most supported sports of any college athletic conference. TCU is based in DFW which is a boon in itself IF you are moving heavily into the State of Texas. The ACC might prefer to get WVU but I think Texas holds many of the cards right now and in the end, WVU is a great school to group up with Tennessee in the SEC.

Tennessee will need it's own division within the SEC's four divisions in order for it's status as an Elite program to be realized again. It has the following, it has the Stadium and with a proper path to a future SEC Tournament it will once again be on equal terms for recruiting against all of the SEC schools to the South. You put Tennessee with Kentucky, Missouri and West Virginia and you see a division that Tennessee can lead but still be challenged in.

I do think Oklahoma State goes to the SEC for the same reason. They make a good complimentary program to go along with LSU, Texas A&M and Arkansas. They don't shake the hierarchy as much as Oklahoma would. The SEC doesn't need anymore Elite football programs. Oklahoma beat Alabama, you really think the Tide wants to see them allowed into the SEC so it can recruit equally in the South as well as in Dallas/Ft. Worth? No way.


The last part of my scenario is the part where most people have problems stomaching. I understand why they cant see it yet but that doesn't mean it doesn't make perfect sense. The PAC already tried to preempt "The Big Plan". They tried to grab more in their Texoma 4 attempt than any other conference had up until that time. They were trying to beat everyone to the punch for the biggest move they could possibly pull off due to geography issues.

They failed, Texas doesn't want to go West. To grab Texas Tech and their new flashy program and it's new flashy coach would be a bigger gain than most people realize at this point. Texas Tech has a very bright future and as the sole representative of the State of Texas in the PAC, they will be raised to a status similar to that of Texas A&M. By going along with this plan they will be assured a protected rivalry game against Texas every single year. That is something that The Aggies do NOT have. Kansas State and Iowa State? Well, they can be leveraged because if they don't go along with this now then there is no saying what happens to them when the GoR runs out in a decade. It is self preservation for them to go along with this.

Why would the PAC take it? Money offered by a Network or multiple Networks. We are talking about the PAC suddenly having three locations in the Central Time Zone. That means they compete for early game programming. That is something they do not do now so that all by itself is worth a very strong upgrade in their TV Contracts. That deserves a particular upgrade but that upgrade will be even higher than the value of those Central Time Zone possibilities because the PAC is the conference that will have to be paid off for this to happen. Massive pay day for the PAC if they do this.

All 10 teams get placed, a dissolution vote can be achieved without having the terrible PR of having any of the schools vote against the dissolution.

Oklahoma State to the SEC only has an outside chance at best. W.V.U. is too far down the priorities list to make it at 16, 18, or 20. You really need to drop those notions as they don't fit the SEC's agenda, period.

Maybe, if there is a breakup of the Big 12, Oklahoma would choose the suicide of Big 10 membership and totally alienate their recruiting base, but even that would be a long shot. The last time Okies were caught in a hard spot (the Dust Bowl days) they headed West. My hunch is that if they went anywhere that moved them away from their fan base it would be West.

And really H1 there aren't enough folks in Kansas and Oklahoma together to be worth it to the Big 10. Besides many in Kansas tune into the Big 10 anyway. The Sooner's national draw would help, but the Sooner's sans their recruiting grounds won't be a plus for the Big 10 or Oklahoma for very long. I think Delany adds two more to the East for the money.

The SEC is looking east for the same reasons.

For all we know, the SEC already signed on to this deal the moment they signed on to the SEC Network deal. You really don't know JR.

Kansas and Oklahoma are not about people JR. They are about blue blood sports programs. Kansas basketball to help offset all that the ACC has done and Oklahoma to help the Big Ten with it's credibility problem in terms of football competitiveness. Rutgers and Maryland were market grabs, Kansas and Oklahoma will be brand grabs. You do remember when we used to talk about the importance of both?


I respect your opinion on Oklahoma State and WVU and your desire to disagree. We will continue to disagree till the end my friend. That is pretty much the only thing that either of us can guarantee.
08-25-2014 10:07 PM
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ohio1317 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
I have to strongly go with the opinion that there is no plan for any major realignment in the coming years. When the grant of rights expire and new TV contracts come up in a decade, I'm sure there will be definite possibilities. If the economy collapses and schools see their funding almost disappear overnight, I'm sure we'll possibilities then too. In the meantime, here are the facts as I see them.

1. We have grant of rights signed in every major conference except the SEC and the reason everyone agreed to sign these rights is that they WANTED stability.
2. We have a 12 year playoff contract. They intentionally made it a long contract so they wouldn't have to be answering questions every couple of years. It is designed around having 5 power conferences and the Group of 5.
3. History very much supports the idea of lulls. Expansion is something that is sometimes considered. Once a conference or two decide on it, the ripple effect/reactions mean we see a lot of it. After that though, things calm down and college presidents do not want serious time having to be devoted to these questions often.
4. There is no big plan. There is no idea of having 4x16 or anything like that. Each conference is in it for themselves and themselves only and right now, they are all trying to adjust to the new realities and they don't want more change before they at least adjust.
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2014 10:20 PM by ohio1317.)
08-25-2014 10:18 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 10:07 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 09:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 09:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 08:37 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  
(08-25-2014 08:01 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I am very much at ease, so let's not go there.

Nice to see that you see the value in Texas going partial contract with ACC instead of full contract anywhere else.

Texas doesn't lose Oklahoma if they go in different directions in terms of conference affiliation. That is a misrepresentation made by folks who do not study their history. In this case it is not even ancient history. Do you know how old the Big 12 is? Do you know how old the Red River Rivalry is? That Rivalry does not require conference membership. The amount of money involved in that rivalry assures that it will survive a conference split between the two schools.

Norman, Oklahoma is less than three hours away from Dallas in drive time. They don't need to be in a Texas conference in order to recruit Texas talent from the largest market of talent in the State of Texas. They never have needed that. The RRR should be enough assurance for folks who do not understand the geography.

We agree on the LHN, I believe that Texas is using it solely now as leverage to get what it wants. Eventually it will get wrapped into an ACC Network but only after Texas gets what they want.

Don't take this the wrong way though when I say this but....0 plus 0 does not equal 1. Notre Dame and Texas do not equal one for ACC football. They equal zero. Two schools would have to come with Texas in order for the ACC to get to 16.

Kansas is definitely Big Ten when this happens but instead of thinking that Missouri would like to leave the SEC and that the Big Ten would want to take them so that the SEC could land an equivalent or better program, think about Oklahoma in the Big Ten. That is more likely the outcome than the Big Ten taking Kansas and Missouri.

I know Oklahoma has been all about a move to the PAC but without Texas they were never willing to take the jump themselves. That is because the travel issue truly is an issue. It is not an issue if they join the Big Ten. In fact, they should be dominant in the Big Ten AND they serious upgrade their academic cred in that circle of people.

We agree on several things.

1, Neither is takng it all that serious.
2, Texas is Texas and they will do what is good for Texas.
3, The LHN is failing. (It bieng reworked as the ACC network would be a boon for ESPN).
4, The Big 12 will implode without Texas.

You may be right about Oklahoma looking to the B1G however, don't forget about little brother. Oklahoma are more closely tied together then Kansas and Kansas Stae are. Whle I could see a deal between the B1G and the SEC to split them It would make them to make them both happy. That would actually help both the B1G and the SEC.

The SEC gets the Oklahoma and Kansas Market as does the B1G. Nebraska Gets some old playmates back and so does Missouri. Interesting theaory and probably what will happen. I honestly never thought of it like that.

The Pac would be a big loser in that event. The problem then is who takes Baylor, Iowa State and TCU. WVU would be taken by the ACC in a second.

So to make Baylor, Iowa State and to a lesser extent TCU happy, could you see them in the AAC as a newly annointed Entitled Conference? I doubt those teams go to the Pac.

Honest question. 07-coffee3

Baylor and TCU to go with Texas to the ACC. Baylor has the all around Athletic Department that could best take advantage of the ACC having the most supported sports of any college athletic conference. TCU is based in DFW which is a boon in itself IF you are moving heavily into the State of Texas. The ACC might prefer to get WVU but I think Texas holds many of the cards right now and in the end, WVU is a great school to group up with Tennessee in the SEC.

Tennessee will need it's own division within the SEC's four divisions in order for it's status as an Elite program to be realized again. It has the following, it has the Stadium and with a proper path to a future SEC Tournament it will once again be on equal terms for recruiting against all of the SEC schools to the South. You put Tennessee with Kentucky, Missouri and West Virginia and you see a division that Tennessee can lead but still be challenged in.

I do think Oklahoma State goes to the SEC for the same reason. They make a good complimentary program to go along with LSU, Texas A&M and Arkansas. They don't shake the hierarchy as much as Oklahoma would. The SEC doesn't need anymore Elite football programs. Oklahoma beat Alabama, you really think the Tide wants to see them allowed into the SEC so it can recruit equally in the South as well as in Dallas/Ft. Worth? No way.


The last part of my scenario is the part where most people have problems stomaching. I understand why they cant see it yet but that doesn't mean it doesn't make perfect sense. The PAC already tried to preempt "The Big Plan". They tried to grab more in their Texoma 4 attempt than any other conference had up until that time. They were trying to beat everyone to the punch for the biggest move they could possibly pull off due to geography issues.

They failed, Texas doesn't want to go West. To grab Texas Tech and their new flashy program and it's new flashy coach would be a bigger gain than most people realize at this point. Texas Tech has a very bright future and as the sole representative of the State of Texas in the PAC, they will be raised to a status similar to that of Texas A&M. By going along with this plan they will be assured a protected rivalry game against Texas every single year. That is something that The Aggies do NOT have. Kansas State and Iowa State? Well, they can be leveraged because if they don't go along with this now then there is no saying what happens to them when the GoR runs out in a decade. It is self preservation for them to go along with this.

Why would the PAC take it? Money offered by a Network or multiple Networks. We are talking about the PAC suddenly having three locations in the Central Time Zone. That means they compete for early game programming. That is something they do not do now so that all by itself is worth a very strong upgrade in their TV Contracts. That deserves a particular upgrade but that upgrade will be even higher than the value of those Central Time Zone possibilities because the PAC is the conference that will have to be paid off for this to happen. Massive pay day for the PAC if they do this.

All 10 teams get placed, a dissolution vote can be achieved without having the terrible PR of having any of the schools vote against the dissolution.

Oklahoma State to the SEC only has an outside chance at best. W.V.U. is too far down the priorities list to make it at 16, 18, or 20. You really need to drop those notions as they don't fit the SEC's agenda, period.

Maybe, if there is a breakup of the Big 12, Oklahoma would choose the suicide of Big 10 membership and totally alienate their recruiting base, but even that would be a long shot. The last time Okies were caught in a hard spot (the Dust Bowl days) they headed West. My hunch is that if they went anywhere that moved them away from their fan base it would be West.

And really H1 there aren't enough folks in Kansas and Oklahoma together to be worth it to the Big 10. Besides many in Kansas tune into the Big 10 anyway. The Sooner's national draw would help, but the Sooner's sans their recruiting grounds won't be a plus for the Big 10 or Oklahoma for very long. I think Delany adds two more to the East for the money.

The SEC is looking east for the same reasons.

For all we know, the SEC already signed on to this deal the moment they signed on to the SEC Network deal. You really don't know JR.

Kansas and Oklahoma are not about people JR. They are about blue blood sports programs. Kansas basketball to help offset all that the ACC has done and Oklahoma to help the Big Ten with it's credibility problem in terms of football competitiveness. Rutgers and Maryland were market grabs, Kansas and Oklahoma will be brand grabs. You do remember when we used to talk about the importance of both?


I respect your opinion on Oklahoma State and WVU and your desire to disagree. We will continue to disagree till the end my friend. That is pretty much the only thing that either of us can guarantee.

Where we can agree H1 is:
1. That as long as the disparity in income between the conferences grows more realignment is likely.
2. That in a conference network world the Big 12 is at a severe disadvantage over the long term.
3. That in a football first world the ACC is at a disadvantage.
4. That until the PAC relinquishes a % of their network to ESPN, or FOX, or another competitor that the likelihood of gaining expansion candidates that really add is practically nil.
5. That the Big 10 and SEC now eye the same candidates for the same reasons (with the exception of anymore Northeastern or New England candidates for the Big 10).
6. That the need to feed the network growth for both the SECN and BTN are now the motivators for that expansion.

I think we agree with most if not all of that.
08-25-2014 10:18 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
To be honest JR, in my opinion it is now bigger than the conference networks. The SEC and Big Ten have gotten what they wanted. ESPN finally gave the SEC it's version of what the Big Ten has had. To me it was most interesting how long they had to wait for it. That tells me there was one hell of a negotiation. We know that it took awhile for the SEC to regain back all of those Tier 3 type rights deals that they had signed over time but that is usual and honestly can happen more quickly with the right amount of money offered. What they would need in order to get offered that kind of money is an agreement by ESPN to go along with the Network. Why would ESPN just go along with it without fully leveraging that approval? ESPN would know of the SEC's great desire to get itself on par with The Big Ten in such aspects. We have all seen the numbers. The SEC has actually lagged behind in payouts. They have made up for it somewhat in Bowl money but the Big Ten gets nearly as much. That is why the Big Ten has made more for it's schools and that rankles the SEC.

ESPN would have been fools to not fully leverage their approval of the SECN. I cant wait to see what the SEC had to sign on for in order to get that approval. It is difficult for me to be patient but one thing that I can honestly say to folks here is that I have been ahead of the curve and everyone else fights it but slowly comes in my direction as individual events begin to unfold. More events are going to unfold and THIS football season is a Big one. The very first college football playoff is going to have some major issues. Most know it but they need it to actually happen, they cant just say it is going to happen. The events actually have to unfold but it isn't hard to see what is going to unfold. It is all about the numbers, the math.

Now, I know you like to keep a strong public position against what I am saying but there have been times when you have admitted that it makes sense and that Oklahoma State and West Virginia add to the SEC what it needs. They are strong complimentary programs. They compliment the SEC where it needs it. The last additions aren't going to be so much about academics, I'm sorry. We are talking about the parceling out in full of the Big 12. Everyone will be compromising.
08-25-2014 10:28 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Odd thought for AAC Expansion. It's all about numbers.
(08-25-2014 10:18 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I have to strongly go with the opinion that there is no plan for any major realignment in the coming years. When the grant of rights expire and new TV contracts come up in a decade, I'm sure there will be definite possibilities. If the economy collapses and schools see their funding almost disappear overnight, I'm sure we'll possibilities then too. In the meantime, here are the facts as I see them.

1. We have grant of rights signed in every major conference except the SEC and the reason everyone agreed to sign these rights is that they WANTED stability.
2. We have a 12 year playoff contract. They intentionally made it a long contract so they wouldn't have to be answering questions every couple of years. It is designed around having 5 power conferences and the Group of 5.
3. History very much supports the idea of lulls. Expansion is something that is sometimes considered. Once a conference or two decide on it, the ripple effect/reactions mean we see a lot of it. After that though, things calm down and college presidents do not want serious time having to be devoted to these questions often.
4. There is no big plan. There is no idea of having 4x16 or anything like that. Each conference is in it for themselves and themselves only and right now, they are all trying to adjust to the new realities and they don't want more change before they at least adjust.

How the hell can you say a four team playoff was designed specifically around a 5 conference power structure? Come on.....

You can believe all you want about there being no cooperation but when the conferences were coming out one at a time in making identical statements that led up to what we now call Autonomy, that was proof positive that major cooperation is and has been going on.

Disbelieve if you like but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

It is more a statement of your disbelief in such cooperation even being possible than it is a statement of such cooperation existing in this subject. I think that you don't think it is possible so you deny that it is happening.

Money makes it possible.
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2014 10:32 PM by He1nousOne.)
08-25-2014 10:31 PM
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