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Does basketball matter anymore?
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Post: #21
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
(08-21-2014 09:15 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  When it comes to which sport drives the most money? Football matters.

This doesn't mean that non-fb schools can't compete though. With so much money being poured into football (and into women's sports via title 9) there is a cap on how much FB schools can flood their hoops budgets compared to the Big East, A-10, WCC, MVC, etc.

The P5 are getting $20 million or so for TV rights and will get another $6-$10 million for bowl/playoffs. That TV money is about 75% for football. If they got 80% of the NCAA tourney money like they do football playoff $, that would be another $10-$15 million per school and would make it more important. But they don't control that money.
08-21-2014 12:28 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
(08-21-2014 08:57 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Money talks. And the TV revenue of basketball ($895 mil/year) is worth about 80% of football ($1095 mil/year). So basketball matters to a LOT of people.

The problem is that 86% of basketball money ($771 mil/year) is for the NCAA tournament, and the NCAA keeps 30% of that for minor sports championships. Much of the rest is distributed among all 300 or so D1 programs more or less equally (I think it's in proportion to the # of sports you sponsor), and even after this is subtracted out, the NCAA tourney gives a lot more money to minor conferences than the football playoffs/bowls do. The result is that good basketball programs don't keep the money they bring to the sport. In football, the good programs keep most of what they bring to the sport.

In short, basketball is socialism, and football is capitalism. History has repeatedly shown that capitalism always wins over socialism.

It's high time that the basketball powers take back control of the NCAA tournament's revenue distribution.

The real issue is the money that the NCAA stashes away in its "war chest" and doesn't distribute to anyone. That's probably 10-20% of the money they get from CBS/Turner. Banking that money serves the interests of no one other than the NCAA bureaucracy. It could be distributed, instead, to increase the money given to teams that make deep tournament runs. For example, they could take an additional $80 million/year and distribute it (not necessarily evenly) to the teams that made the Sweet 16 that year. That would be in addition to the money already distributed to NCAA tournament participants.
08-21-2014 01:18 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
(08-21-2014 08:08 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-21-2014 08:00 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(08-20-2014 09:46 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(08-20-2014 05:15 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Wishful thinking for many, some are throwing all they have into basketball and either don't have the land, means or support for football.

There's more to sports than just football. Wish more folks would understand that.

People do, but CFB, MBB are the financial tools that keep a lot of athletic department close to solvency. It's are hard sell with the tuition prices where they are to also charge kids/parents 'student fees' to fund all the ancillary sports that are financial black holes.

CFB puts most athletic departments deeper in the red. Maybe with the latest P5 TV contracts, that won't be true for many P5 programs anymore, but it was true. Still true for G5 and FCS.

I honestly question CFB's overall profitability. Even the ones that make money are doing so based on boosters and other donations.

Basketball actually is profitable. The margins just aren't that robust compared to the well-oiled football programs that do succeed. And it's not as popular as football.

I don't have faith that these new media deals turn these football schools into money makers. You have to spend. More in, more out...it's always about keeping up appearances with the others.
08-21-2014 01:57 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
(08-21-2014 01:57 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I honestly question CFB's overall profitability. Even the ones that make money are doing so based on boosters and other donations.
A CFB program that has substantial profitability implies there is a big revenue stream that the Athletic Department is letting slip through its fingers, which would be in its control and providing a benefit to the Athletic Department if only it can be turned into a "necessary" cost.
08-21-2014 02:03 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
(08-21-2014 08:57 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Money talks. And the TV revenue of basketball ($895 mil/year) is worth about 80% of football ($1095 mil/year). So basketball matters to a LOT of people.

The problem is that 86% of basketball money ($771 mil/year) is for the NCAA tournament, and the NCAA keeps 30% of that for minor sports championships. Much of the rest is distributed among all 300 or so D1 programs more or less equally (I think it's in proportion to the # of sports you sponsor), and even after this is subtracted out, the NCAA tourney gives a lot more money to minor conferences than the football playoffs/bowls do. The result is that good basketball programs don't keep the money they bring to the sport. In football, the good programs keep most of what they bring to the sport.

In short, basketball is socialism, and football is capitalism. History has repeatedly shown that capitalism always wins over socialism.

It's high time that the basketball powers take back control of the NCAA tournament's revenue distribution.

And for the most part, who dominates the minor sports championships - P5 schools, and Ivy League schools - so if there was no basketball funding for those sports, they'd either have to self fund them or eliminate them.. Eliminating would cause many issues, self funding would likely cost more for the P5 than what they are not getting from the NCAA.

Basketball revenue is also distributed based on how well you do in the tourney, so the P5 is getting a much larger share already.


And pure capitalism is always a failure as well 03-wink
08-21-2014 02:13 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
(08-21-2014 02:03 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(08-21-2014 01:57 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I honestly question CFB's overall profitability. Even the ones that make money are doing so based on boosters and other donations.
A CFB program that has substantial profitability implies there is a big revenue stream that the Athletic Department is letting slip through its fingers, which would be in its control and providing a benefit to the Athletic Department if only it can be turned into a "necessary" cost.

When I think of "profitable," I don't think of donations.

I think cfb could be profitable, and all the power to those who try, but I think the current powers that be haven't a clue. Some can make coin with the help of boosters, legacy, and PR, and those that can't put themselves at a risk to try and keep up, thus putting the entire AD at risk.

As it is, it's about spend, spend, spend. So much of how a football program runs is an operational loss. That's what makes stuff like what's happening at Michigan so frightening, because ticket sales, at least up until the more recent media deals, were what helped sop up expenses. It's one of the biggest (and still is for non-majors) streams available to a program. And what does it say that programs already apply PSLs on top of this stuff? Again, that doesn't sound like "profit" to me.
(This post was last modified: 08-21-2014 02:32 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
08-21-2014 02:30 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
(08-20-2014 05:09 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(08-20-2014 04:09 PM)LouPower Wrote:  College sports is a football industry, and it seems that everything else is well behind on the food chain.

Is there any hope for basketball-only schools in the "new world"?

It would be wise for basketball schools with no or FCS level football to invest in such sport and do what is necessary to get to the G5 level. The writing is on the wall and big changes will be coming after the present big changes have been determined and resolved.

I just shake my head when I read posts/articles that say realignment is over. It is not, and once it happens more changes will come. And then more.

The gravity of consolidation can only attract more large bodies to its center and it cares not from where such is torn. The event horizon has expanded beyond the space it just consumed and its center has reached such critical mass as to be pregnant with a new universe.
3 good points are made here. And to answer the question of the OP. "Does basketball matter anymore?" Not in most of the South.
08-21-2014 02:31 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
(08-21-2014 12:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-21-2014 09:15 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  When it comes to which sport drives the most money? Football matters.

This doesn't mean that non-fb schools can't compete though. With so much money being poured into football (and into women's sports via title 9) there is a cap on how much FB schools can flood their hoops budgets compared to the Big East, A-10, WCC, MVC, etc.

The P5 are getting $20 million or so for TV rights and will get another $6-$10 million for bowl/playoffs. That TV money is about 75% for football. If they got 80% of the NCAA tourney money like they do football playoff $, that would be another $10-$15 million per school and would make it more important. But they don't control that money.
And therein is the reason that a breakaway possibility will remain viable.
08-21-2014 02:33 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
What's a basketball only school?
08-21-2014 03:17 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
Basketball does matter. It has value and it is a large amount of the BTN programming and will be for SECN.

But it is in no way as significant as football. If I had a choice between two TV providers and one offered all Sun Belt football but not basketball and one offered all SBC hoops games but not football, I'd go with the one offering football and that's how the equation would go among the vast majority of fans of FBS programs.

A late season G5 could determine who makes the Access Bowl, it could even determine who is in the field of four either because one is in the middle a great multi-year run or because there is debate whether one of the schools is a quality win for a field of four contender.

You don't get those stakes in basketball, a "key matchup" is more likely about whether a team is going to be able to earn an at-large with a 10-12 seed or it is about whether the winner can get a coveted (to the school and hoops junkies) #1 seed.

The nature of how basketball is conducted harms its value, but it still holds value. Big East earns more from TV per team than any G5 league
08-21-2014 06:17 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
Basketball is more situational but only for certain teams.

For example, no matter what happens to the L10, Kansas is going to find a soft landing because of their basketball. Same is true of Duke.
08-21-2014 06:23 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
(08-20-2014 04:09 PM)LouPower Wrote:  College sports is a football industry, and it seems that everything else is well behind on the food chain.

Is there any hope for basketball-only schools in the "new world"?

Louisville made $42 Million in 2013-2014 year. That is a lot of matters! 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 08-21-2014 09:31 PM by Wilkie01.)
08-21-2014 09:31 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
I find that basketball is very difficult to sustain for Mid Majors that aren't getting the blue chip recruits. When a mid major is winning in basketball nobody wants to play them unlike in football where success leads to better matchups.

In football you don't need the blue chip recruits necessarily and if you get the right coach in place they can build an empire. UCF did that with George O'Leary. Stayed a decade and kept building. Every G5 conference has a few mini empires in it where schools can almost guarantee a winning season.
08-21-2014 09:52 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
American
Cincinnati
UCF must prove it can be good every year

Mountain West
Boise State

MAC
Lacks one team domination.

CUSA
Marshall

Sun Belt
Lacks one team domination.

07-coffee3
08-21-2014 10:03 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
(08-21-2014 10:03 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  American
Cincinnati
UCF must prove it can be good every year

Mountain West
Boise State

MAC
Lacks one team domination.

CUSA
Marshall

Sun Belt
Lacks one team domination.

07-coffee3

How is CUSA dominated by Marshall when NIU has won 5 straight division titles in the MAC? Marshall has never won a CUSA title.

Arkansas St and Louisiana are empires in the context of the SBC. They are definitely the two strongest programs in that conference.
08-21-2014 10:08 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
(08-21-2014 09:52 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I find that basketball is very difficult to sustain for Mid Majors that aren't getting the blue chip recruits. When a mid major is winning in basketball nobody wants to play them unlike in football where success leads to better matchups.

I'd say it's in reverse and really if you have sustained success, anyone will be willing to play you in any sport.
08-21-2014 10:26 PM
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Lurker Above Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
(08-21-2014 02:31 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-20-2014 05:09 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(08-20-2014 04:09 PM)LouPower Wrote:  College sports is a football industry, and it seems that everything else is well behind on the food chain.

Is there any hope for basketball-only schools in the "new world"?

It would be wise for basketball schools with no or FCS level football to invest in such sport and do what is necessary to get to the G5 level. The writing is on the wall and big changes will be coming after the present big changes have been determined and resolved.

I just shake my head when I read posts/articles that say realignment is over. It is not, and once it happens more changes will come. And then more.

The gravity of consolidation can only attract more large bodies to its center and it cares not from where such is torn. The event horizon has expanded beyond the space it just consumed and its center has reached such critical mass as to be pregnant with a new universe.
3 good points are made here. And to answer the question of the OP. "Does basketball matter anymore?" Not in most of the South.

Thanks JR!
04-cheers
08-21-2014 11:00 PM
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Piratelife4me Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
(08-21-2014 03:17 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  What's a basketball only school?

01-wingedeagle

Seriously, if you have to ask maybe this topic is not for you.
08-21-2014 11:26 PM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
(08-21-2014 10:03 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  American
Cincinnati
UCF must prove it can be good every year

Mountain West
Boise State

MAC
Lacks one team domination.

CUSA
Marshall

Sun Belt
Lacks one team domination.

07-coffee3

So Marshall dominates CUSA without any major bowl wins or even winning the conference since they have joined?

And the Sun Belt has has a couple year champions and it lacks one team domination?
08-21-2014 11:28 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Does basketball matter anymore?
Marshall is back!
08-21-2014 11:48 PM
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