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At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
If the SBC wanted to add anyone they could have done it a long time ago.
Certainly don't think they will ever go to 16 or 14. In fact not even sure
they would add any team if they lost a couple of teams. Wouldn't be what I
would want, but seems like concentrating on conference APR is more important
than anything.
08-21-2014 01:35 AM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #22
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
No.
More.
FBS.
Programs!

FBS is already over-bloated. We actually need to retract by AT LEAST 30 programs.

Besides which, Liberty doesn't "need" a conference invitation. They could go the independent route. But please, please, please...DON'T.
08-21-2014 07:47 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #23
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
The Feds are going to have to change the student loans system in the coming years anyways. That change could spell disaster for programs like this.

BTW, online isn't the future in higher education.
(This post was last modified: 08-21-2014 10:40 AM by HeartOfDixie.)
08-21-2014 10:40 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #24
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
(08-20-2014 05:21 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Hopefully the Federal Government will stop giving loans to these on-line diploma mills like GCU and Liberty, and stop allowing things like VA grants to be used at them.


95% of Liberty's money would dry up overnight.





Better yet, not allow discriminatory schools like Liberty to be apart of any federal program.

While Liberty has some issues with academic freedom and somewhat with the quality of some of their programs, I'm not sure they deserve to be lumped in with a for-profit like GCU, and certainly not with the unaccredited for-profits that are the ones with the truly astounding default rates.
08-21-2014 11:03 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #25
Re: RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
(08-21-2014 07:47 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  No.
More.
FBS.
Programs!

FBS is already over-bloated. We actually need to retract by AT LEAST 30 programs.

Besides which, Liberty doesn't "need" a conference invitation. They could go the independent route. But please, please, please...DON'T.
Then stop conference raiding. Conferences are not going to willingly lay down and die and will add FCS to survive whether they want to or not.

I hear P5 fans complain about this...but it is their expansion that triggers FCS adds.
08-21-2014 11:07 AM
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BullsFanInTX Offline
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Post: #26
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
(08-20-2014 05:21 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Hopefully the Federal Government will stop giving loans to these on-line diploma mills like GCU and Liberty, and stop allowing things like VA grants to be used at them.


95% of Liberty's money would dry up overnight.





Better yet, not allow discriminatory schools like Liberty to be apart of any federal program.

Liberty is not a "Diploma Mill". They have the same regional accreditation as every other major universtiy in the US, to include Illinois and NAU. Do you think the regional accreditation body would accredit them if they were a diploma mill.
(This post was last modified: 08-21-2014 11:34 AM by BullsFanInTX.)
08-21-2014 11:33 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #27
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
Yea, I wouldn't call them a diploma mill.

Still, 90% reliance on online programs is a major red-flag. Besides, they clearly don't see the future in it since they are using the funds to bankroll massive building projects on campus.
08-21-2014 11:41 AM
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redfan Offline
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Post: #28
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
(08-21-2014 11:33 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  
(08-20-2014 05:21 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Hopefully the Federal Government will stop giving loans to these on-line diploma mills like GCU and Liberty, and stop allowing things like VA grants to be used at them.


95% of Liberty's money would dry up overnight.





Better yet, not allow discriminatory schools like Liberty to be apart of any federal program.

Liberty is not a "Diploma Mill". They have the same regional accreditation as every other major universtiy in the US, to include Illinois and NAU. Do you think the regional accreditation body would accredit them if they were a diploma mill.



If it is true that 95% of their revenue is due to online enrollment it would be in error to compare them to other major universities.
08-21-2014 11:44 AM
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All Dukes_All Day Offline
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Post: #29
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
(08-21-2014 07:47 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  No.
More.
FBS.
Programs!

FBS is already over-bloated. We actually need to retract by AT LEAST 30 programs.

Besides which, Liberty doesn't "need" a conference invitation. They could go the independent route. But please, please, please...DON'T.

They need an invitation. You can't jump up to FBS without one. It isn't until you are fully established as an FBS after the transition of two season that you can then go Indy (see: Umass).

If they didn't need an invitation, they would've jumped at least 4 years ago.
08-21-2014 11:53 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #30
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
(08-21-2014 11:41 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Yea, I wouldn't call them a diploma mill.

Still, 90% reliance on online programs is a major red-flag. Besides, they clearly don't see the future in it since they are using the funds to bankroll massive building projects on campus.

The on-campus building is a sign that Liberty does intend to keep relying on online revenue. It's the same with Grand Canyon University, which has a similar business model. Both are using the campus they have, and intercollegiate athletics, to make them look more appealing to potential online customers than their competition, i.e., other online universities that either have no brick-and-mortar campus or only a tiny unpublicized campus.
08-21-2014 11:58 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #31
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
(08-21-2014 11:58 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(08-21-2014 11:41 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Yea, I wouldn't call them a diploma mill.

Still, 90% reliance on online programs is a major red-flag. Besides, they clearly don't see the future in it since they are using the funds to bankroll massive building projects on campus.

The on-campus building is a sign that Liberty does intend to keep relying on online revenue. It's the same with Grand Canyon University, which has a similar business model. Both are using the campus they have, and intercollegiate athletics, to make them look more appealing to potential online customers than their competition, i.e., other online universities that either have no brick-and-mortar campus or only a tiny unpublicized campus.


And it is working for both. GCU on-campus enrollment is up 25% this year from last.
08-21-2014 12:12 PM
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LUcanesfan Offline
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Post: #32
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
I think the NCAA needs to allow a "start-up" conference for whoever wants to play in FBS. This new start-up conference could be to replace the WAC that is now extinct. It would serve schools the opportunity to prove that they can operate as a FBS member and also to impress other prospective FBS conferences for an invite while still being (technically speaking) already in the FBS. This will resolve the "we don't want any more FCS schools" chatter.

Schools will have to prove that they belong. In other words, they can be bounced back to FCS in they do not meet NCAA requirements in say 5-10 years. Also schools that have no business being in FBS and were grandfathered in, can be sent to this new conference to reorganize themselves to improve their status.

Sadly though, all of this is a pipe-dream considering that the NCAA does not interfere with conference decisions. Therefore, this idea will need to be voted on by current FBS members. They will not do something like this because the P5 does not want to share money and the G5 is trying hard to prove they can compete with the P5 and does not want FCS members to "crowd" the party.
(This post was last modified: 08-21-2014 12:29 PM by LUcanesfan.)
08-21-2014 12:26 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #33
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
(08-21-2014 12:12 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(08-21-2014 11:58 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(08-21-2014 11:41 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Yea, I wouldn't call them a diploma mill.

Still, 90% reliance on online programs is a major red-flag. Besides, they clearly don't see the future in it since they are using the funds to bankroll massive building projects on campus.

The on-campus building is a sign that Liberty does intend to keep relying on online revenue. It's the same with Grand Canyon University, which has a similar business model. Both are using the campus they have, and intercollegiate athletics, to make them look more appealing to potential online customers than their competition, i.e., other online universities that either have no brick-and-mortar campus or only a tiny unpublicized campus.


And it is working for both. GCU on-campus enrollment is up 25% this year from last.

What is Liberty's enrollment up by?
08-21-2014 12:47 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #34
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
(08-21-2014 12:26 PM)LUcanesfan Wrote:  I think the NCAA needs to allow a "start-up" conference for whoever wants to play in FBS. This new start-up conference could be to replace the WAC that is now extinct. It would serve schools the opportunity to prove that they can operate as a FBS member and also to impress other prospective FBS conferences for an invite while still being (technically speaking) already in the FBS. This will resolve the "we don't want any more FCS schools" chatter.

Schools will have to prove that they belong. In other words, they can be bounced back to FCS in they do not meet NCAA requirements in say 5-10 years. Also schools that have no business being in FBS and were grandfathered in, can be sent to this new conference to reorganize themselves to improve their status.

Sadly though, all of this is a pipe-dream considering that the NCAA does not interfere with conference decisions. Therefore, this idea will need to be voted on by current FBS members. They will not do something like this because the P5 does not want to share money and the G5 is trying hard to prove they can compete with the P5 and does not want FCS members to "crowd" the party.

Some people call that the Sun Belt.
08-21-2014 12:47 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #35
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
(08-21-2014 11:58 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(08-21-2014 11:41 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Yea, I wouldn't call them a diploma mill.

Still, 90% reliance on online programs is a major red-flag. Besides, they clearly don't see the future in it since they are using the funds to bankroll massive building projects on campus.

The on-campus building is a sign that Liberty does intend to keep relying on online revenue. It's the same with Grand Canyon University, which has a similar business model. Both are using the campus they have, and intercollegiate athletics, to make them look more appealing to potential online customers than their competition, i.e., other online universities that either have no brick-and-mortar campus or only a tiny unpublicized campus.

That is certainly one way of looking at it but I can't say I agree.

The quality of these online programs is in question, especially when you consider their cost. Going forward a change in the rules, in my opinion, is likely and that could have a murderous effect on these programs.

Regardless of that, I think the higher education bubble is going to bust and that will decimate smaller universities, mostly smaller public ones, but also these online programs.
08-21-2014 01:08 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #36
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
(08-20-2014 03:20 PM)MJG Wrote:  
(08-20-2014 02:16 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  So they bought an article in USA Today. If nobody wants you, it doesn't matter how "well positioned" you are.

Yeah I see them suing to rescind the invitation rule .
They have a billion dollars so plenty of money to throw at lawyers.

The rule is A bad rule anyway making FBS a private club.
They shouldn't have to beg a conference for an invite.
Any school that meets all the requirements should be able to move up.

I can see why a conference might shy away from them.
They still have the right to do things the way they want to.
Like ninety thousand online students and any religious beliefs.

Where do people get this idea that Liberty has deep pockets? According to US News, their endowment is $58 million.

That's low even for an FCS program. If they were an FBS program they'd rank 7th from last (above EMU, Northern Illinois, and 4 Sun Belt schools).
08-21-2014 03:39 PM
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Dman Offline
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Post: #37
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
[/quote]

Some people call that the Sun Belt.
[/quote]



and also CUSA.
08-21-2014 03:52 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #38
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
I'm okay with more FBS programs just as long as it doesn't lead to a 6th conference.

If NDSU, Liberty and Missouri St can move up to the G5 and add something valuable to the G5 I'm all for it. They bring their own recruiting niches from FBS with them.
08-21-2014 04:21 PM
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MJG Offline
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Post: #39
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
(08-21-2014 03:39 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(08-20-2014 03:20 PM)MJG Wrote:  
(08-20-2014 02:16 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  So they bought an article in USA Today. If nobody wants you, it doesn't matter how "well positioned" you are.

Yeah I see them suing to rescind the invitation rule .
They have a billion dollars so plenty of money to throw at lawyers.

The rule is A bad rule anyway making FBS a private club.
They shouldn't have to beg a conference for an invite.
Any school that meets all the requirements should be able to move up.

I can see why a conference might shy away from them.
They still have the right to do things the way they want to.
Like ninety thousand online students and any religious beliefs.

Where do people get this idea that Liberty has deep pockets? According to US News, their endowment is $58 million.

That's low even for an FCS program. If they were an FBS program they'd rank 7th from last (above EMU, Northern Illinois, and 4 Sun Belt schools).

They claim to have a billion in cash not tied up in their endowment. Which Is A Lot Better For Athletics.
08-21-2014 05:05 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #40
RE: At Liberty, FBS Dreams and a high-resource reality
(08-21-2014 05:05 PM)MJG Wrote:  
(08-21-2014 03:39 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(08-20-2014 03:20 PM)MJG Wrote:  
(08-20-2014 02:16 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  So they bought an article in USA Today. If nobody wants you, it doesn't matter how "well positioned" you are.

Yeah I see them suing to rescind the invitation rule .
They have a billion dollars so plenty of money to throw at lawyers.

The rule is A bad rule anyway making FBS a private club.
They shouldn't have to beg a conference for an invite.
Any school that meets all the requirements should be able to move up.

I can see why a conference might shy away from them.
They still have the right to do things the way they want to.
Like ninety thousand online students and any religious beliefs.

Where do people get this idea that Liberty has deep pockets? According to US News, their endowment is $58 million.

That's low even for an FCS program. If they were an FBS program they'd rank 7th from last (above EMU, Northern Illinois, and 4 Sun Belt schools).

They claim to have a billion in cash not tied up in their endowment. Which Is A Lot Better For Athletics.

A university that has a billion in cash and only $58 million in its endowment ought to put a substantial amount of that cash into its endowment.
08-21-2014 05:29 PM
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