I said some time ago that Congress might be the last hope of saving the current "amateur" model of college sports. Even with interference from Congress, many of the changes on the horizon would come anyway (stipends, new rights for college athletes, athletes sharing in profits, etc), but action by congress could protect college athletics from further attacks and maybe even make the post season more accessible to everyone (that last part is just my opinion--but its the type of thing that might be required to get the wide ranging support such a bill would need). The problem is--you never know whats going to happen once the government gets involved---lots of deals need to get made to make legislation happen.


http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...-solutions

(08-18-2014 01:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I said some time ago that Congress might be the last hope of saving the current "amateur" model of college sports. Even with interference from Congress, many of the changes on the horizon would come anyway (stipends, new rights for college athletes, athletes sharing in profits, etc), but action by congress could protect college athletics from further attacks and maybe even make the post season more accessible to everyone (that last part is just my opinion--but its the type of thing that might be required to get the wide ranging support such a bill would need). The problem is--you never know whats going to happen once the government gets involved---lots of deals need to get made to make legislation happen.


http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...-solutions

Look, I've got nothing against you. But the very premise that Congress can save anything is ludicrous. They can't even agree on the budget which is their job to set. They are agents of special interest and lobby money. I guarantee you if they get involved it will be more screwed up than ever and once involved you'll never get the Hogs noses out of that trough either.

(08-18-2014 01:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-18-2014 01:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I said some time ago that Congress might be the last hope of saving the current "amateur" model of college sports. Even with interference from Congress, many of the changes on the horizon would come anyway (stipends, new rights for college athletes, athletes sharing in profits, etc), but action by congress could protect college athletics from further attacks and maybe even make the post season more accessible to everyone (that last part is just my opinion--but its the type of thing that might be required to get the wide ranging support such a bill would need). The problem is--you never know whats going to happen once the government gets involved---lots of deals need to get made to make legislation happen.


http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...-solutions

Look, I've got nothing against you. But the very premise that Congress can save anything is ludicrous. They can't even agree on the budget which is their job to set. They are agents of special interest and lobby money. I guarantee you if they get involved it will be more screwed up than ever and once involved you'll never get the Hogs noses out of that trough either.

JR I whole heartedly agree with you. Ronald Reagan once said something to the effect, that the most feard words to hear are: "I am from the Government and I am here to help."

If Kessler wins, I think college sports gets destroyed. They will probably try to get government help then. I don't know if they would succeed.

Defined "gets destroyed"..

If Kessler wins, is Harvard going to stop playing Yale in college football...?

(08-18-2014 01:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-18-2014 01:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I said some time ago that Congress might be the last hope of saving the current "amateur" model of college sports. Even with interference from Congress, many of the changes on the horizon would come anyway (stipends, new rights for college athletes, athletes sharing in profits, etc), but action by congress could protect college athletics from further attacks and maybe even make the post season more accessible to everyone (that last part is just my opinion--but its the type of thing that might be required to get the wide ranging support such a bill would need). The problem is--you never know whats going to happen once the government gets involved---lots of deals need to get made to make legislation happen.


http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...-solutions

Look, I've got nothing against you. But the very premise that Congress can save anything is ludicrous. They can't even agree on the budget which is their job to set. They are agents of special interest and lobby money. I guarantee you if they get involved it will be more screwed up than ever and once involved you'll never get the Hogs noses out of that trough either.

This. I love my Pirates but I don't want congress touching anything else.

(08-18-2014 01:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-18-2014 01:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I said some time ago that Congress might be the last hope of saving the current "amateur" model of college sports. Even with interference from Congress, many of the changes on the horizon would come anyway (stipends, new rights for college athletes, athletes sharing in profits, etc), but action by congress could protect college athletics from further attacks and maybe even make the post season more accessible to everyone (that last part is just my opinion--but its the type of thing that might be required to get the wide ranging support such a bill would need). The problem is--you never know whats going to happen once the government gets involved---lots of deals need to get made to make legislation happen.


http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...-solutions

Look, I've got nothing against you. But the very premise that Congress can save anything is ludicrous. They can't even agree on the budget which is their job to set. They are agents of special interest and lobby money. I guarantee you if they get involved it will be more screwed up than ever and once involved you'll never get the Hogs noses out of that trough either.

Whoa. Lets leave the Hogs out of this.

(08-18-2014 01:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-18-2014 01:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I said some time ago that Congress might be the last hope of saving the current "amateur" model of college sports. Even with interference from Congress, many of the changes on the horizon would come anyway (stipends, new rights for college athletes, athletes sharing in profits, etc), but action by congress could protect college athletics from further attacks and maybe even make the post season more accessible to everyone (that last part is just my opinion--but its the type of thing that might be required to get the wide ranging support such a bill would need). The problem is--you never know whats going to happen once the government gets involved---lots of deals need to get made to make legislation happen.


http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...-solutions

Look, I've got nothing against you. But the very premise that Congress can save anything is ludicrous. They can't even agree on the budget which is their job to set. They are agents of special interest and lobby money. I guarantee you if they get involved it will be more screwed up than ever and once involved you'll never get the Hogs noses out of that trough either.

JR, government is already involved in college athletics via funding/Pell Grants, the legal system, and Title IX (just to name a few areas). Hell, the majority of the University system owes its actual existence to some level of government. At this point, we are just discussing how much more they could be involved and whether Congressional intervention could save more of the current athletics model than allowing the legal system to simply play out. That said, a healthy suspicion of the words "Im with the government and Im here to help" is always wise.

One thing I know won't save college football - CBS Sports.

(08-18-2014 03:36 PM)bullet Wrote:  If Kessler wins, I think college sports gets destroyed. They will probably try to get government help then. I don't know if they would succeed.

The Kessler lawsuit is just a symptom of a problem that the NCAA has been refusing to deal with since the explosion of money in college sports that started in about 1980. The schools didn't have to deal with this when tickets cost $10 and there was almost no TV or sponsorship money. But it's not 1970 anymore.

This new money is being generated by the "performances" of athletes. (You think CBS/Turner would pay $770 million/year if the NCAA tournament was played by average students at an intramural-sports level? Me neither.)

But the NCAA and the schools keep pretending those money-generating athletes are merely typical students who are actually undeserving moochers (e.g., Emmert's comment that every scholarship athlete takes a place away from a paying student).

(08-18-2014 03:42 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Defined "gets destroyed"..

If Kessler wins, is Harvard going to stop playing Yale in college football...?

Non-revenue sports get decimated. A lot of schools drop football. I suspect the Ivies will drop football soon (next 20 years) anyway because of the concussion issue. NCAA is in a different form, which may involve high-revenue schools breaking away which shuts down athletic teams and/or programs at hundreds of Division II and III schools who no longer are funded by the Division I bb tourney.

(08-18-2014 04:10 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2014 01:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-18-2014 01:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I said some time ago that Congress might be the last hope of saving the current "amateur" model of college sports. Even with interference from Congress, many of the changes on the horizon would come anyway (stipends, new rights for college athletes, athletes sharing in profits, etc), but action by congress could protect college athletics from further attacks and maybe even make the post season more accessible to everyone (that last part is just my opinion--but its the type of thing that might be required to get the wide ranging support such a bill would need). The problem is--you never know whats going to happen once the government gets involved---lots of deals need to get made to make legislation happen.


http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...-solutions

Look, I've got nothing against you. But the very premise that Congress can save anything is ludicrous. They can't even agree on the budget which is their job to set. They are agents of special interest and lobby money. I guarantee you if they get involved it will be more screwed up than ever and once involved you'll never get the Hogs noses out of that trough either.

JR, government is already involved in college athletics via funding/Pell Grants, the legal system, and Title IX (just to name a few areas). Hell, the majority of the University system owes its actual existence to some level of government. At this point, we are just discussing how much more they could be involved and whether Congressional intervention could save more of the current athletics model than allowing the legal system to simply play out. That said, a healthy suspicion of the words "Im with the government and Im here to help" is always wise.

Yeah buddy, how are those student loan programs doing? That grant money is getting cut which is spurring the realignment craze as new revenue streams are being sought wherever they can be found. Sure government is the damned answer and what everyone needs more of right now is government in their lives. Wow? You don't think I know at what levels the government is already involved in the workings of public universities and private research universities? As long as you are on public funding there is a wide array of things that fall under their direction. Even denominational churches under the 1000 points of light program lost some of their prophetic voice due to the acceptance of public funding. Add that to things States have had to remain silent about because of Federal funds and I'm sure what we want is more government involvement. Which is my point. I see no good coming out of governmental involvement in college sports. Unfortunately, there will be an oblique governmental presence even with the selection committee. What part of the lives of citizens do they not want to be involved in?

If we must compensate players we will deal with it. If they have the right to sell their talents to the highest bidder then as Bullet points out it may be the beginning of the end of college sports. But even then if it happens it will be because the judiciary (a branch of government) got involved. God help the whiny can't wipe their own butts generation that wants government involved in every aspect of their lives like it was Santa Claus! You will never know happiness, never have security, and certainly never have or deserve freedom. "The government that governs least governs best." You want to know why that is so? It is because the government that expects its citizens to govern themselves encourages participation in, responsibility for, and ownership of itself by its citizens! That's the government I want and for which I am willing to pay.

(08-18-2014 04:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-18-2014 03:42 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Defined "gets destroyed"..

If Kessler wins, is Harvard going to stop playing Yale in college football...?

Non-revenue sports get decimated. A lot of schools drop football. I suspect the Ivies will drop football soon (next 20 years) anyway because of the concussion issue. NCAA is in a different form, which may involve high-revenue schools breaking away which shuts down athletic teams and/or programs at hundreds of Division II and III schools who no longer are funded by the Division I bb tourney.

Sounds like you just described "evolution" and/or "survival of the fittest" to me.

Or, it sounds like what happens during one of those west coast fires -- stuff gets burned up (destroyed), and stuff rebuilds.

(08-18-2014 04:10 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2014 01:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-18-2014 01:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I said some time ago that Congress might be the last hope of saving the current "amateur" model of college sports. Even with interference from Congress, many of the changes on the horizon would come anyway (stipends, new rights for college athletes, athletes sharing in profits, etc), but action by congress could protect college athletics from further attacks and maybe even make the post season more accessible to everyone (that last part is just my opinion--but its the type of thing that might be required to get the wide ranging support such a bill would need). The problem is--you never know whats going to happen once the government gets involved---lots of deals need to get made to make legislation happen.


http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...-solutions

Look, I've got nothing against you. But the very premise that Congress can save anything is ludicrous. They can't even agree on the budget which is their job to set. They are agents of special interest and lobby money. I guarantee you if they get involved it will be more screwed up than ever and once involved you'll never get the Hogs noses out of that trough either.

JR, government is already involved in college athletics via funding/Pell Grants, the legal system, and Title IX (just to name a few areas). Hell, the majority of the University system owes its actual existence to some level of government. At this point, we are just discussing how much more they could be involved and whether Congressional intervention could save more of the current athletics model than allowing the legal system to simply play out. That said, a healthy suspicion of the words "Im with the government and Im here to help" is always wise.

Every one of those things you cited were enacted at a time when Congress was FAR less polarized than it is today. As JR correctly notes, they now cannot even agree on a basic budget, let alone delve into something as novel and controversial as this. FWIW, I doubt the government gets involved in this. Oh, don't get me wrong, there may be plenty of pronouncements, as is common, but that's about as far as it will go, IMO.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Whether folks like it or not, every lawsuit the NCAA loses increases the likelihood that the politicians will get involved. And if that happens, there's absolutely no telling what they might do. Whatever sacred cow you may cherish, Congress could turn it into hamburger.

Finally getting time to sit down with a real computer.

I don't see Congress coming in to "save" intercollegiate athletics.

What I do think is within the realm of possibility is Congress declaring that colleges that have $50 million or $80 million or $100 million in revenue from athletics shouldn't be asking Congress to pay for things when that revenue could be diverted to pay for the stuff they want Congress to pay for.

Likewise I could see some of those wanting to increase tax revenue taking steps to remove intercollegiate athletics or high revenue programs from the list charitable deductions arguing that if the point of the "charity" is to help student-athletes get an education why do high revenue programs spend 4% (or less) of their revenue on student-athletes.

When I hear the Big Ten or Wake Forest talk about de-emphasizing athletics I tend to suspect what they really mean is de-emphasizing athletic spending by picking a number and capping budgets at that point with the remainder of revenue flowing over to the general budget.

Is congress competent at anything?
Do college sports need saving?

These are the questions we should be asking

(08-21-2014 07:21 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  Is congress competent at anything?
Do college sports need saving?

These are the questions we should be asking

Answer no. 1 No.
Answer no. 2 Depends on the status of the individual program (P-5, G-5, Fcs etc...). The only real question is, if congress gets involved are they going to mess it up more than the current greed induced stupor college sports is currently suffering from?

(08-18-2014 06:37 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Whether folks like it or not, every lawsuit the NCAA loses increases the likelihood that the politicians will get involved. And if that happens, there's absolutely no telling what they might do. Whatever sacred cow you may cherish, Congress could turn it into hamburger.

Really?? They cannot reach consensus on major budget and legislative issues. Heck, up until this year, the entire government was funded via supplemental budget extensions for something like FOUR YEARS as they could not agree on major budget decisions. With his in mind, do you really think that they will be able to get any traction on something as comparatively trivial like college athletics??


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(08-18-2014 05:36 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(08-18-2014 04:10 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2014 01:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-18-2014 01:15 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I said some time ago that Congress might be the last hope of saving the current "amateur" model of college sports. Even with interference from Congress, many of the changes on the horizon would come anyway (stipends, new rights for college athletes, athletes sharing in profits, etc), but action by congress could protect college athletics from further attacks and maybe even make the post season more accessible to everyone (that last part is just my opinion--but its the type of thing that might be required to get the wide ranging support such a bill would need). The problem is--you never know whats going to happen once the government gets involved---lots of deals need to get made to make legislation happen.


http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...-solutions

Look, I've got nothing against you. But the very premise that Congress can save anything is ludicrous. They can't even agree on the budget which is their job to set. They are agents of special interest and lobby money. I guarantee you if they get involved it will be more screwed up than ever and once involved you'll never get the Hogs noses out of that trough either.

JR, government is already involved in college athletics via funding/Pell Grants, the legal system, and Title IX (just to name a few areas). Hell, the majority of the University system owes its actual existence to some level of government. At this point, we are just discussing how much more they could be involved and whether Congressional intervention could save more of the current athletics model than allowing the legal system to simply play out. That said, a healthy suspicion of the words "Im with the government and Im here to help" is always wise.

Every one of those things you cited were enacted at a time when Congress was FAR less polarized than it is today. As JR correctly notes, they now cannot even agree on a basic budget, let alone delve into something as novel and controversial as this. FWIW, I doubt the government gets involved in this. Oh, don't get me wrong, there may be plenty of pronouncements, as is common, but that's about as far as it will go, IMO.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Actually Harry Reid refuses to even try. He didn't even do one when Dems controlled the House and Senate. They finally did this past year for the first time.