...WVU, PITT, Cuse, UL, Rutgers would have remained in the old Big East and we had added UCF, UH, ECU, Memphis, Tulane, SMU, BYU and kept either Boise or TCU in the fold....would we be talking about P5 or P6?

West Virginia
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Louisville
Cincinnati
UConn
Rutgers
South Florida
TCU
Boise State
BYU
Houston

Give me this and I would have been relatively happy

(08-13-2014 07:41 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  West Virginia
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Louisville
Cincinnati
UConn
Rutgers
South Florida
TCU
Boise State
BYU
Houston

Give me this and I would have been relatively happy

hack

I would still prefer the current ACC over the two proposed.

(08-13-2014 07:51 PM)texasorange Wrote:  I would still prefer the current ACC over the two proposed.

Oh no question about that. The ACC over everything. However if we had gotten stuck there I would have taken my scenario.

The schools named in the OP would have tried even harder to GTFO

Speaking as a PITT fan, when realignment first started to break a few years back, the above scenario was where I thought we were headed; and with all due respect to all of the teams listed, that prospect positively terrified me. Unfortunately for them, Connecticut is living in that reality right now.

Then, as things started to break, it became clear that even some of those Big East teams listed above were very likely going to land elsewhere, it became even more frightening.

I say this without a hint of disrespect because I personally respect almost all of the programs listed above and freely acknowledge that many of them have been better than PITT has been in recent years. However, the reality is in a pro sports city perception is an enormous part of the local B League (college football) team's ability to attract attention. A steady diet of C-USA opponents would not have served us well and probably would've been the death of PITT football from an attendance standpoint. At that point we would probably begin to draw Temple or SMU like crowds. In other words, put a fork in us.

We already saw a dip in attendance when we replaced long time respected opponents Miami, Virginia Tech, and Boston College with a trio of teams that most casual fans did not know or respect in Louisville, Cincinnati, and South Florida.

Frankly, in most years, those teams were all better than we were but it did not matter. Hell, they fired Dave Wannstedt for coming in second too many times against "C-USA teams." I do not agree with that mentality at all but that was the thinking and I can only imagine what the sentiment would have been if they added yet more C-USA schools to the annual slate.

The day the news broke that PITT and Syracuse were headed to the ACC, PITT blew a 17-point fourth quarter lead at Iowa and I could not have cared less because I knew that the broader picture was FAR more important and that our future was FINALLY assured.

(08-13-2014 07:31 PM)CyberBull Wrote:  ...WVU, PITT, Cuse, UL, Rutgers would have remained in the old Big East and we had added UCF, UH, ECU, Memphis, Tulane, SMU, BYU and kept either Boise or TCU in the fold....would we be talking about P5 or P6?

Only if WVU, Pitt, Cuse, UofL, and Rutgers were good. The unfortunate truth is that the years smaller programs were champions (Cincy and UConn) did irreparable harm to the perception of the league. While BYU, TCU, and Boise would have been fine adds the others (regardless of how good they were) would have been additional drags on the perception.

Look at it like this, UCF beating Baylor couldn't save the AAC.

(08-13-2014 09:38 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Speaking as a PITT fan, when realignment first started to break a few years back, the above scenario was where I thought we were headed; and with all due respect to all of the teams listed, that prospect positively terrified me. Unfortunately for them, Connecticut is living in that reality right now.

Then, as things started to break, it became clear that even some of those Big East teams listed above were very likely going to land elsewhere, it became even more frightening.

I say this without a hint of disrespect because I personally respect almost all of the programs listed above and freely acknowledge that many of them have been better than PITT has been in recent years. However, the reality is in a pro sports city perception is an enormous part of the local B League (college football) team's ability to attract attention. A steady diet of C-USA opponents would not have served us well and probably would've been the death of PITT football from an attendance standpoint. At that point we would probably begin to draw Temple or SMU like crowds. In other words, put a fork in us.

I'm sorry but this post makes zero sense to me. The only difference between this league and the Big East that Pitt was last a member is that there would have been a legitimate western wing which Pitt wouldn't play every season. I would expect UL, UC, BYU, TCU and Boise would've been good draws from that division.

WEST - BYU, Boise, Houston, SMU, TCU, UC, UL
EAST - Pitt, Rutgers, WVU, ECU, UCF, USF, UConn

Gotta agree...much rather be with UNC, Duke, Clemson and Florida State and being rejoined with Notre Dame, Pitt and Syracuse.

(08-13-2014 07:41 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  West Virginia
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Louisville
Cincinnati
UConn
Rutgers
South Florida
TCU
Boise State
BYU
Houston

Give me this and I would have been relatively happy

As a "Big East fan", I never recovered from Miami, Virginia Tech, and Boston College moving to the ACC. We had some fantastic games against Louisville that could have developed into a special type of rivalry. Cincinnati was also a program on the rise that gave us fits at times. USF owned Rich Rodriguez.



However, I was never fully on board with the final Big East iteration and I do not think adding those western schools (although it would have certainly been a football upgrade), would have changed that for me.



The only thing that I really miss about the Big East is the conference basketball tournament at MSG.

(08-14-2014 08:24 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 09:38 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Speaking as a PITT fan, when realignment first started to break a few years back, the above scenario was where I thought we were headed; and with all due respect to all of the teams listed, that prospect positively terrified me. Unfortunately for them, Connecticut is living in that reality right now.

Then, as things started to break, it became clear that even some of those Big East teams listed above were very likely going to land elsewhere, it became even more frightening.

I say this without a hint of disrespect because I personally respect almost all of the programs listed above and freely acknowledge that many of them have been better than PITT has been in recent years. However, the reality is in a pro sports city perception is an enormous part of the local B League (college football) team's ability to attract attention. A steady diet of C-USA opponents would not have served us well and probably would've been the death of PITT football from an attendance standpoint. At that point we would probably begin to draw Temple or SMU like crowds. In other words, put a fork in us.

I'm sorry but this post makes zero sense to me. The only difference between this league and the Big East that Pitt was last a member is that there would have been a legitimate western wing which Pitt wouldn't play every season. I would expect UL, UC, BYU, TCU and Boise would've been good draws from that division.

WEST - BYU, Boise, Houston, SMU, TCU, UC, UL
EAST - Pitt, Rutgers, WVU, ECU, UCF, USF, UConn

Your post doesn't make much sense to me, either. If both Pitt and Syracuse (you appear to have left them out of your scenario) stay in the BE, what makes you think ECU gets an invite to be part of the Eastern Division?

(08-14-2014 08:24 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  I'm sorry but this post makes zero sense to me. The only difference between this league and the Big East that Pitt was last a member is that there would have been a legitimate western wing which Pitt wouldn't play every season. I would expect UL, UC, BYU, TCU and Boise would've been good draws from that division.

WEST - BYU, Boise, Houston, SMU, TCU, UC, UL
EAST - Pitt, Rutgers, WVU, ECU, UCF, USF, UConn

You don't understand it because you don't live it at ECU. Your college sports programs are the only game in town. In pro sport cities a college sports program has to be thought of as being big time in order to gat any attention. That means it has to be at least competitive in a top conference to draw ticket paying fans and get column space in the local paper.

(08-14-2014 08:57 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 08:24 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 09:38 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Speaking as a PITT fan, when realignment first started to break a few years back, the above scenario was where I thought we were headed; and with all due respect to all of the teams listed, that prospect positively terrified me. Unfortunately for them, Connecticut is living in that reality right now.

Then, as things started to break, it became clear that even some of those Big East teams listed above were very likely going to land elsewhere, it became even more frightening.

I say this without a hint of disrespect because I personally respect almost all of the programs listed above and freely acknowledge that many of them have been better than PITT has been in recent years. However, the reality is in a pro sports city perception is an enormous part of the local B League (college football) team's ability to attract attention. A steady diet of C-USA opponents would not have served us well and probably would've been the death of PITT football from an attendance standpoint. At that point we would probably begin to draw Temple or SMU like crowds. In other words, put a fork in us.

I'm sorry but this post makes zero sense to me. The only difference between this league and the Big East that Pitt was last a member is that there would have been a legitimate western wing which Pitt wouldn't play every season. I would expect UL, UC, BYU, TCU and Boise would've been good draws from that division.

WEST - BYU, Boise, Houston, SMU, TCU, UC, UL, Tulane
EAST - Pitt, Rutgers, WVU, ECU, UCF, USF, UConn, Cuse

Your post doesn't make much sense to me, either. If both Pitt and Syracuse (you appear to have left them out of your scenario) stay in the BE, what makes you think ECU gets an invite to be part of the Eastern Division?

I guess you didn't read the OP. I left out Tulane and Cuse. The OP assumed a 16 team conference emerged.

(08-14-2014 11:20 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 08:57 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 08:24 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 09:38 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Speaking as a PITT fan, when realignment first started to break a few years back, the above scenario was where I thought we were headed; and with all due respect to all of the teams listed, that prospect positively terrified me. Unfortunately for them, Connecticut is living in that reality right now.

Then, as things started to break, it became clear that even some of those Big East teams listed above were very likely going to land elsewhere, it became even more frightening.

I say this without a hint of disrespect because I personally respect almost all of the programs listed above and freely acknowledge that many of them have been better than PITT has been in recent years. However, the reality is in a pro sports city perception is an enormous part of the local B League (college football) team's ability to attract attention. A steady diet of C-USA opponents would not have served us well and probably would've been the death of PITT football from an attendance standpoint. At that point we would probably begin to draw Temple or SMU like crowds. In other words, put a fork in us.

I'm sorry but this post makes zero sense to me. The only difference between this league and the Big East that Pitt was last a member is that there would have been a legitimate western wing which Pitt wouldn't play every season. I would expect UL, UC, BYU, TCU and Boise would've been good draws from that division.

WEST - BYU, Boise, Houston, SMU, TCU, UC, UL, Tulane
EAST - Pitt, Rutgers, WVU, ECU, UCF, USF, UConn, Cuse

Your post doesn't make much sense to me, either. If both Pitt and Syracuse (you appear to have left them out of your scenario) stay in the BE, what makes you think ECU gets an invite to be part of the Eastern Division?

I guess you didn't read the OP. I left out Tulane and Cuse. The OP assumed a 16 team conference emerged.

I guess you didn't read the OP. It also assumed that Syracuse would stay in that 16 team conference.

Answer to the OP: maybe, maybe not ... as a conference with "Many Princes but no Kings", the Big East was already scrabbling to hang onto Power Conference status before the last big ACC raid, and adding more schools that would like to see themselves as Princes wouldn't help on that front. OTOH, that's a conference that is more likely to generate a couple of games a week of interest for scheduling into a national networks programming.

So it seems like it might have had slightly better odds, but its not clear whether it would have regained the ground lost when Miami and Virginia Tech left.

(08-14-2014 11:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 11:20 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 08:57 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 08:24 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 09:38 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Speaking as a PITT fan, when realignment first started to break a few years back, the above scenario was where I thought we were headed; and with all due respect to all of the teams listed, that prospect positively terrified me. Unfortunately for them, Connecticut is living in that reality right now.

Then, as things started to break, it became clear that even some of those Big East teams listed above were very likely going to land elsewhere, it became even more frightening.

I say this without a hint of disrespect because I personally respect almost all of the programs listed above and freely acknowledge that many of them have been better than PITT has been in recent years. However, the reality is in a pro sports city perception is an enormous part of the local B League (college football) team's ability to attract attention. A steady diet of C-USA opponents would not have served us well and probably would've been the death of PITT football from an attendance standpoint. At that point we would probably begin to draw Temple or SMU like crowds. In other words, put a fork in us.

I'm sorry but this post makes zero sense to me. The only difference between this league and the Big East that Pitt was last a member is that there would have been a legitimate western wing which Pitt wouldn't play every season. I would expect UL, UC, BYU, TCU and Boise would've been good draws from that division.

WEST - BYU, Boise, Houston, SMU, TCU, UC, UL, Tulane
EAST - Pitt, Rutgers, WVU, ECU, UCF, USF, UConn, Cuse

Your post doesn't make much sense to me, either. If both Pitt and Syracuse (you appear to have left them out of your scenario) stay in the BE, what makes you think ECU gets an invite to be part of the Eastern Division?

I guess you didn't read the OP. I left out Tulane and Cuse. The OP assumed a 16 team conference emerged.

I guess you didn't read the OP. It also assumed that Syracuse would stay in that 16 team conference.

Yeah, it was an accident. Sheesh.

(08-13-2014 07:41 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  West Virginia
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Louisville
Cincinnati
UConn
Rutgers
South Florida
TCU
Boise State
BYU
Houston

Give me this and I would have been relatively happy

I'd rather be in the Big Ten or ACC over that, but if those weren't options I like it. Although I'd tweak it a little further and add UCF and another western school probably SDSU or Fresno. That league would not have been left out of a power conference group. It would have been too many strong schools and/or states left out.

My dream of course remains the 7 old Eastern Indies (WVU, Pitt, PSU, Temple, RU, Cuse, BC) plus Maryland, Louisville, Cincinnati, Virginia Tech and UConn. Really nice and solid, regional conference where you would see everyone very regularly in a 9 game conference schedule.

(08-13-2014 07:41 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  West Virginia
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Louisville
Cincinnati
UConn
Rutgers
South Florida
TCU
Boise State
BYU
Houston

Give me this and I would have been relatively happy

This plus the C7 and ND would be a P6 and earning much, much closer $ to the current P5.

(08-14-2014 11:56 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 11:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 11:20 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 08:57 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 08:24 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  I'm sorry but this post makes zero sense to me. The only difference between this league and the Big East that Pitt was last a member is that there would have been a legitimate western wing which Pitt wouldn't play every season. I would expect UL, UC, BYU, TCU and Boise would've been good draws from that division.

WEST - BYU, Boise, Houston, SMU, TCU, UC, UL, Tulane
EAST - Pitt, Rutgers, WVU, ECU, UCF, USF, UConn, Cuse

Your post doesn't make much sense to me, either. If both Pitt and Syracuse (you appear to have left them out of your scenario) stay in the BE, what makes you think ECU gets an invite to be part of the Eastern Division?

I guess you didn't read the OP. I left out Tulane and Cuse. The OP assumed a 16 team conference emerged.

I guess you didn't read the OP. It also assumed that Syracuse would stay in that 16 team conference.

Yeah, it was an accident. Sheesh.

I like and respect ECU as much as the next guy. The point is, it's probably no coincidence that pretty much all these hypothetical alternate conferences include a promotion for the team that the poster supports - even when subsequent events suggest it would not have happened.