Unfortunately I think it'll take the US doing some things that the American people will feel uncomfortable doing so. Unfortunately the first step would be arming terror cells that are ultimately enemies of Israel and even the United States. We have to understand that the enemy of your enemy is your friend concept. Yes, this will mean putting arms & money into the hands of Hezbollah... kinda of a scary thought in itself, right... Second step is even worse: we must completely wipe them out... including their children. To defeat ISIS, we must throw any kind of ROE out of the playbook. We're dealing with an enemy that's not afraid to cut children in half and place decapitated heads in the middle of towns; therefore, we must do the same to them.

Is what I'm proposing inhumane? Absolutely... Is what I'm proposing stooping to their level? Absolutely... Even I can't stomach proposing such a inhumane form of onslaught against ISIS. But to defeat ISIS, we must destroy their will to fight, and unfortunately, we must do some things that no American president will be willing to do to defeat them. This is completely different than the Taliban & Al Qaeda.

I am not sure if this is true, but I heard somewhere that to date the most successful group at fighting ISIS and protecting civilians has been a kurdish militant group that the US classifies as a terrorist organization because they are turkish rebels.

kinda shows just how f***ed up the situation is.

Which is why I'm saying, to defeat this group of insurgents/militant group, we must have groups of insurgents on our side. We're not going to beat this group in a series of military battles. We must beat them at their own game.

(08-12-2014 07:40 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Unfortunately I think it'll take the US doing some things that the American people will feel uncomfortable doing so. Unfortunately the first step would be arming terror cells that are ultimately enemies of Israel and even the United States. We have to understand that the enemy of your enemy is your friend concept. Yes, this will mean putting arms & money into the hands of Hezbollah... kinda of a scary thought in itself, right... Second step is even worse: we must completely wipe them out... including their children. To defeat ISIS, we must throw any kind of ROE out of the playbook. We're dealing with an enemy that's not afraid to cut children in half and place decapitated heads in the middle of towns; therefore, we must do the same to them.
Is what I'm proposing inhumane? Absolutely... Is what I'm proposing stooping to their level? Absolutely... Even I can't stomach proposing such a inhumane form of onslaught against ISIS. But to defeat ISIS, we must destroy their will to fight, and unfortunately, we must do some things that no American president will be willing to do to defeat them. This is completely different than the Taliban & Al Qaeda.

With you every step of the way--except for the last sentence. This is NOT different from al-Qaeda or Taliban or any of probably 100 other groups in that part of the world. That's why our efforts to eliminate or overcome them have failed.

Here's the other thing. Suppose we kill every adult member. Their kids will keep it alive. And grandkids. And great-grands. And if we subdue them for 500 years, and then back off, they count that as a win.

Owl,

The reason why I list them in a different category is that they actually are acquiring land, whilst Al Qaeda just planned attacks to scare people.

(08-12-2014 08:11 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Owl,

The reason why I list them in a different category is that they actually are acquiring land, whilst Al Qaeda just planned attacks to scare people.

OK, in that sense I get it. But it really doesn't make them easier to fight.

Nuke em. Tactical nukes.

The best course of action is to leave them alone. Anything the US does will simply swell their ranks, especially American brutality. They will burn out in time without our intervention.

The whole reason we have ISIS today is because of American ignorance so let's not double down on it.

(08-12-2014 08:26 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Nuke em. Tactical nukes.

So you plan on wiping out the Kurds and Christians plus those that aren't members of ISIS in that area of the world.

(08-12-2014 08:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The best course of action is to leave them alone. Anything the US does will simply swell their ranks, especially American brutality. They will burn out in time without our intervention.

The whole reason we have ISIS today is because of American ignorance so let's not double down on it.

I agree with this... But if we're going to go in, we might as well go hard or just stay at home.

(08-12-2014 08:31 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 08:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The best course of action is to leave them alone. Anything the US does will simply swell their ranks, especially American brutality. They will burn out in time without our intervention.

The whole reason we have ISIS today is because of American ignorance so let's not double down on it.

I agree with this... But if we're going to go in, we might as well go hard or just stay at home.

I'm always in agreement with anybody that says we shouldn't do anything half-assed.

That said, our presence bolsters ISIS, where else can angry disaffected young Muslims with a religious chip on their shoulder sign up to kill Americans?

They have a message that works and the more we involve ourselves the more powerful that message. Like I said, in time their natural enemies will gain the upper hand and end their murderous spree. We can only delay that end.

We lost the will to fight because Bush jumped the gun. It's Vietnam all over again.

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(08-12-2014 09:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  We lost the will to fight because Bush jumped the gun. It's Vietnam all over again.

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I think you mean Bush and a near unanimous Congress...


Posted from the shallow recesses of my feeble mind.

(08-12-2014 09:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  We lost the will to fight because Bush jumped the gun. It's Vietnam all over again.

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Enough of the finger pointing. Doesn't matter who did this or who did what. What matters is, we're in this predicament today.

It's laughable to think these barbarians are doing what they are doing because of the US or because of us invading Iraq.

These people are barbarians. They are beheading children for Christ sake. They are killing and raping women for fun.

These barbarians were and will do this as long as they are allowed.

You have a 7 yo holding up a severed head. That's not the fault of the US invading Iraq. That's a backward 3rd century religion causing that grotesque behavior.

A regional backhand with our bombs will curtail this. It won't be quick.

Congress gave him the authority. Bush however pulled the trigger. At least 10 years too soon I might add.

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(08-12-2014 09:47 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Congress gave him the authority. Bush however pulled the trigger. At least 10 years too soon I might add.

OK, it's all Bush's fault, the Koch brother's fault, the Tea party's fault. But Obama is the president now and has been for the last 6 years. What is he going to do?

(08-12-2014 09:47 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Congress gave him the authority. Bush however pulled the trigger. At least 10 years too soon I might add.

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You can add whatever you want. Doesn't make it true.

(08-12-2014 09:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  We lost the will to fight because Bush jumped the gun. It's Vietnam all over again.

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Bush had the war won. Zero lost it.

(08-12-2014 08:09 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Which is why I'm saying, to defeat this group of insurgents/militant group, we must have groups of insurgents on our side. We're not going to beat this group in a series of military battles. We must beat them at their own game.

Exactly.

As horrific as it is, the US and close allies have an opportunity to make the best of an incredibly perverse scenario.

Launch a retaliatory attack and exterminate the animals and any living family members. Make it brutal. Make it public. Make it extremely bloody and painful. Most of all, make no apologies.

Kill them all. If they try to run to Syria or anywhere else, make it clear the Allies will pursue them. The ROE are very simple - no prisoners at all, go in fully weapons free with no bag limit. Use any means to kill them. Nothing is off limits. Be creative but merciless.

The objective is to set an example for ALL future terrorist organizations. The message is clear: if you dare to mess with us, you and yours will pay the ultimate price.