First, there are 65 P-5 schools and 64 G-5 schools, if there was a scheduling change/cut, would the fan bases of the G-5 stop following their teams and still have interest in the P-5 games?

I imagine the 64 fan bases make up a large amount of TV viewership for networks, and IMO these fans would not have the same or much interest at all in the p-5 outside of playoff games.

Second, if G-5 TV viewers are removed from the current pool of TV viewers the p-5 currently has, how big of a difference do you think it will make on TV deals going forward? and would it give the G-5 real negotiation power with the TV networks? what do ya'll think about this?

(08-11-2014 09:48 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  First, there are 65 P-5 schools and 64 G-5 schools, if there was a scheduling change/cut, would the fan bases of the G-5 stop following their teams and still have interest in the P-5 games?

I imagine the 64 fan bases make up a large amount of TV viewership for networks, and IMO these fans would not have the same or much interest at all in the p-5 outside of playoff games.

I don't think that follows.

Visited friends last weekend, wife went BG, husband may have an Assoc degree...anyway basement was all ZSU décor (w/ the exception of 1 BG pennant).

P5 fan bases extend WAY beyond their alumni. G5, not so much.

And any G5 program w/ huge fanbase will be considered for invitation into the club. i.e., I can see BYU in the Big 12 eventually.

I would unquestionably stop watching any P5 games. I would probably still watch some NIU games.

I hardly watch any P5 games now, I don't think I would watch them again (if the split happens) unless I had reason to. I'd still follow Miami of course.

Does anyone have a link to a media report about P5 teams exclusively "playing only with themselves" in the future? I've been in the great outdoors of Montana and Idaho, where I intentionally avoided anything else going on in the world during my vacation.

If this happens, I foresee the reemergence of the "haves vs have-nots" in the P5. Sorta like it was in the decades of the 60s and 70s.

(08-11-2014 12:17 PM)Okie Chippewa Wrote:  Does anyone have a link to a media report about P5 teams exclusively "playing only with themselves" in the future? I've been in the great outdoors of Montana and Idaho, where I intentionally avoided anything else going on in the world during my vacation.

If this happens, I foresee the reemergence of the "haves vs have-nots" in the P5. Sorta like it was in the decades of the 60s and 70s.

The question is purely hypothetical. It's not in the pipeline except in some people's imagination. There's a reason the Harlem Globetrotters play the Washington Generals and the New Jersey Reds. It's the same reason the P5 needs the G5.

I really doubt that this will happen.

Back a few years ago, the Pac-12 and B1G commissioners came up with an agreement to have the conferences schedule regular season games against each other. The ADs came back and explained to the commissioners how much money they'd lose by giving up home games.

Right now the big boys like OSU, Alabama, FSU etc are trying to schedule 8 regular season home games per year, with 4 away games. If the P-5 only plays with itself, the starting point would have to be 6 home and 6 away per year. You might be able to have some of the weaker P-5 teams give up a home date, but not nearly enough for many schools to schedule 8 home dates.

The way college football is, since fans will fill a stadium to see the big schools play FAMU, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, Austin Peay, Chattanooga, Western Carolina etc, the almighty dollar says there's no reason not to play them. If I see the big schools give up on FCS opponents, then maybe I'd believe they might give up on G-5 opponents.

As a football fan, I'd love to see more competitive games and less pansy scheduling. The P-5/G-5 line doesn't matter to me much. I just don't expect to see it ever happening

I stopped watching P5 games a couple of years ago. With ESPN3 I get my CFB fix and stay away from the hype.

There are 4 types of college sports fans-
1. Students
2. Alums
3. Community
4. Band Wagon

Every school has the first 3, its the 4th type of fan that pushes the big schools past the rest. Fan types 1-3 root for their team because it represents something meaningful to them, Band Wagon fans root for their team because of what it does for them- gives them an excuse to party, or brag at the office, or to be associated with a winner ("we" won!) etc.

The Cartel 5 have spent the last 20+ years engineering a league (FBS) where every possible advantage is stacked in their favor. By dividing the league into Haves and Have Nots (formerly AQ/ Non AQ, now P5/G5) the Bastard 5 have insured their wealth, and just as important, have insured the lack of wealth of the other half. It is the systemic enforcement of poverty on half of the league that insures high win totals for the Corrupt 5 to satisfy the Band Wagon component of their fan base.

Look at the Non Conference schedule for the SEC this year- 56 OOC games, 47 vs G5/FCS, only 9 vs other P5 opponents. Not surprisingly this mix also gives them 47 of 56 games at home with only 9 OOC games on the road. If the SEC transitioned to a P5 only OOC schedule they could no longer schedule buyout home games with no return date which means their total number of OOC home games would drop from 47 to 28. That's a loss of game day revenue for 19 games, plus the added expense of 19 travel games. PLUS, an increased number of losses that would come from losing home field advantage and playing competition that has the financial means to retain similar talent. What happens to the Band Wagon fans of these Cartels when all of these 4-0 September teams with delusional fantasies of national championships begin the season 2-2 or 1-3 instead? Band Wagon fans want a winner, that's why their band wagon fans.

The P5 will NEVER cut out the G5, they've worked too hard to create an unfair advantage to abandon it in the name of some phony honor they don't possess.

And for anyone who says they want to see more competitive games- tell the P5 to stop splitting the CFP revenue 70/27 with the G5 and the G5 will have the financial means to create more equally competitive programs. Problem solved.

If I was the MAC and this stuff starts happening my ass would be suing the power 5 conferences for collusion and making unfair market balances. Not sure this is possible but I feel like if industries where the top 5 businesses colluded to cut out bottom there would be anti trust and other sanctions being brought down by the government.

(08-11-2014 01:59 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  I stopped watching P5 games a couple of years ago. With ESPN3 I get my CFB fix and stay away from the hype.

There are 4 types of college sports fans-
1. Students
2. Alums
3. Community
4. Band Wagon

Every school has the first 3, its the 4th type of fan that pushes the big schools past the rest. Fan types 1-3 root for their team because it represents something meaningful to them, Band Wagon fans root for their team because of what it does for them- gives them an excuse to party, or brag at the office, or to be associated with a winner ("we" won!) etc.

The Cartel 5 have spent the last 20+ years engineering a league (FBS) where every possible advantage is stacked in their favor. By dividing the league into Haves and Have Nots (formerly AQ/ Non AQ, now P5/G5) the Bastard 5 have insured their wealth, and just as important, have insured the lack of wealth of the other half. It is the systemic enforcement of poverty on half of the league that insures high win totals for the Corrupt 5 to satisfy the Band Wagon component of their fan base.

Look at the Non Conference schedule for the SEC this year- 56 OOC games, 47 vs G5/FCS, only 9 vs other P5 opponents. Not surprisingly this mix also gives them 47 of 56 games at home with only 9 OOC games on the road. If the SEC transitioned to a P5 only OOC schedule they could no longer schedule buyout home games with no return date which means their total number of OOC home games would drop from 47 to 28. That's a loss of game day revenue for 19 games, plus the added expense of 19 travel games. PLUS, an increased number of losses that would come from losing home field advantage and playing competition that has the financial means to retain similar talent. What happens to the Band Wagon fans of these Cartels when all of these 4-0 September teams with delusional fantasies of national championships begin the season 2-2 or 1-3 instead? Band Wagon fans want a winner, that's why their band wagon fans.

The P5 will NEVER cut out the G5, they've worked too hard to create an unfair advantage to abandon it in the name of some phony honor they don't possess.

And for anyone who says they want to see more competitive games- tell the P5 to stop splitting the CFP revenue 70/27 with the G5 and the G5 will have the financial means to create more equally competitive programs. Problem solved.

Also need to mention the P5's bandwagon fans often come from the G5's 1-3 fanbase.

(08-11-2014 12:41 PM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  I really doubt that this will happen.

Back a few years ago, the Pac-12 and B1G commissioners came up with an agreement to have the conferences schedule regular season games against each other. The ADs came back and explained to the commissioners how much money they'd lose by giving up home games.

Right now the big boys like OSU, Alabama, FSU etc are trying to schedule 8 regular season home games per year, with 4 away games. If the P-5 only plays with itself, the starting point would have to be 6 home and 6 away per year. You might be able to have some of the weaker P-5 teams give up a home date, but not nearly enough for many schools to schedule 8 home dates.

The way college football is, since fans will fill a stadium to see the big schools play FAMU, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, Austin Peay, Chattanooga, Western Carolina etc, the almighty dollar says there's no reason not to play them. If I see the big schools give up on FCS opponents, then maybe I'd believe they might give up on G-5 opponents.

As a football fan, I'd love to see more competitive games and less pansy scheduling. The P-5/G-5 line doesn't matter to me much. I just don't expect to see it ever happening

If the P-5s would play more games with the G-5s it would open up a lot more interest in the P-5 teams. You have to have a reason to watch. If P-5 teams only play P-5 teams then you never open up the interest that G-5 fans may have in them since they are playing their teams. So eventually a ton of interest is left untapped. They are supposed to be money hungry business people....so cannot see it ever happening.

The P5 will play a total of 234 Non Conference games.

64 vs other P5.
114 vs G5 ( 86 Home / 28 Away )
56 vs FCS ( 56 Home / 0 Away )

That's 170 of 234 (73%) non conference games vs Non-P5 competition. Not coincidentally, that's also 170 of 234 (73%) non conference games played at home.

Its also worth noting here that the revenue distribution for the CFP contract amongst the FBS conferences was engineered so that the P5/G5 split is 70/27. This guarantees that the rich stay rich, and more importantly, that the poor stay poor. If the P5 were genuinely interested in playing better competition they could simply remove the P5/G5 classifications and allow all 10 conference members of FBS to split the FBS revenue equitably, like every other sports league on the planet.

There is no way in hell the P5 are going to replace 170 non conference games that are currently schedule against teams that they have engineered an extreme financial advantage over just so they can beat each other up drop their non conference winning percentage to .500. Not to mention the revenue lost when 170 home games turns into 117.

A P5 split from the G5 would leave the G5 without large revenue streams, national media attention or any hopes of playing for a national championship. In other words, we wouldn't even notice the difference.

But a split would be absolutely devastating for the P5. Don't believe the hype.

But on the other side of the coin...

There's a big difference in overall support between the P5 and G5. P5 teams fill a lot bigger stadiums that G5 teams do. A few of the top G5 teams might hit the levels of the lowest P5 teams, but there isn't much overlap.

MAC teams rarely get 20,000 people to their games. On the P5 side, 25,000 would be a low turnout. On the P5 side, some teams fill 100,000 seat stadiums.

It's hard to compare one-to-one, because there's so few home-and-home series played between MAC and the P5. Kansas at Northern Illinois in 2012 gets 18,374 people. Northern Illinois at Kansas in 2011 gets 48,044. That's the big difference between a bottom-rung P5 and a top-rung G5

The same level of support happens with television viewship. You can't expect G5 teams to get paid like P5 teams, if they're not supported like P5 teams.

Oh yeah, and I forget. What does P5 and G5 stand for? Is P5 = 'Professional 5'?

(08-13-2014 07:38 AM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  Oh yeah, and I forget. What does P5 and G5 stand for? Is P5 = 'Professional 5'?

P is for power I think.

(08-13-2014 07:18 AM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  But on the other side of the coin...

There's a big difference in overall support between the P5 and G5. P5 teams fill a lot bigger stadiums that G5 teams do. A few of the top G5 teams might hit the levels of the lowest P5 teams, but there isn't much overlap.

MAC teams rarely get 20,000 people to their games. On the P5 side, 25,000 would be a low turnout. On the P5 side, some teams fill 100,000 seat stadiums.

It's hard to compare one-to-one, because there's so few home-and-home series played between MAC and the P5. Kansas at Northern Illinois in 2012 gets 18,374 people. Northern Illinois at Kansas in 2011 gets 48,044. That's the big difference between a bottom-rung P5 and a top-rung G5

The same level of support happens with television viewship. You can't expect G5 teams to get paid like P5 teams, if they're not supported like P5 teams.

Do the B1G and SEC divide confernce revenues based on attendance, viewership and perceived value or do they treat each member as equal? Does Ohio State and Michigan receive 10X compared to Nwestern and Purdue? There's a clear justification for it, isn't there?

The bottom line is there are 10 conferences in FBS and each conference should be treated with relative equity. You can't have a national media worship and idolize half the league and ignore the other half and then turn around and blame the ignored half for having less attendance and less viewership and thus less perceived value.

Either we're all members of the same league or we're not.

(08-13-2014 07:38 AM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  Oh yeah, and I forget. What does P5 and G5 stand for? Is P5 = 'Professional 5'?

G5 or Go5 stands for "Group of Five", it was what the group of five FBS conferences that bargained together over the College Football Playoff deal were called. The announcement of the division of CFP media loot was first in terms of the five big conference then the "Group of Five", and then the "Group of Five" agreed on how to divide their share of the pot ... that's where the Go5 or G5 came from, the College Football Playoff negotiations. More people will become aware of it later in this season, with the top Go5 champion guaranteed a spot at one of the big bowls.

P5 is "Power 5", which is less formal, based on sports journos starting to call them "the Power Conferences" when "BCS AQ conferences" expired with the end of the BCS.

(08-13-2014 07:08 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  Do the B1G and SEC divide confernce revenues based on attendance, viewership and perceived value or do they treat each member as equal? Does Ohio State and Michigan receive 10X compared to Nwestern and Purdue? There's a clear justification for it, isn't there?

No, their conference is organized to have the difference in revenues come from demand for live game seats and donations, and divide media revenue equally.

Quote: ... Either we're all members of the same league or we're not.

We're not, we're members of ten different leagues.

Who decided on the revenue sharing percentages? You rarely see this mentioned on interviews and in articles. The G5 should receive more of a percentage of the revenue especially if we are talking about adding a stipend in addition to the cost college.