Measure passed 16-2

Reforms Coming for P5 Schools

(08-07-2014 12:28 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Measure passed 16-2

Reforms Coming for P5 Schools

It's those rules that are going to carry the seeds of separation whether officially or de facto.

True, but from the NCAA perspective, not acceding to the P5's request was financial suicide. Thus I hope the vote reveals to everyone what that governing body has and is truly about: cash money.

Now that the O'Bannon case, UMD/ACC case, and P5 autonomy have been resolved I think this fall is going to be interesting as the P5 hash out their vision for major college athletics going forward. I think you will see a battle between the SEC and B1G on how to handle the new paradigm. I think it is going to spur further consolidation going forward, but who knows.

(08-08-2014 07:03 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  True, but from the NCAA perspective, not acceding to the P5's request was financial suicide. Thus I hope the vote reveals to everyone what that governing body has and is truly about: cash money.

Got to keep sucking from that sweet NCAA men's BB tournament money teat (that funds the entire NCAA) for the smaller schools. I guess many also get that playoff money subsidy as well for the smaller FBS schools.

As a school that is a BB power pisses me off that my schools value is diminished because BB solely funds the NCAA. I am hoping eventually they get that tournament away from the NCAA. If they do, BB value to the P5 would basically double.

(08-09-2014 04:04 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  Now that the O'Bannon case, UMD/ACC case, and P5 autonomy have been resolved I think this fall is going to be interesting as the P5 hash out their vision for major college athletics going forward. I think you will see a battle between the SEC and B1G on how to handle the new paradigm. I think it is going to spur further consolidation going forward, but who knows.

This mindset in America that everything has to be a battle at all times is very distressing. That isn't a shot at you jhawk, pretty much everyone thinks that always has to be the case but....it SHOULD be obvious that these Commissioners are working together more than they are working against each other.

If there has ever been any real friction it would have been from the Big Ten/SEC and the Big 12 or the Big Ten and the ACC.

Why folks think that the Big Ten and the SEC are at odds with each other is beyond me. Their interests coincide quite a bit.

(08-10-2014 12:08 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-09-2014 04:04 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  Now that the O'Bannon case, UMD/ACC case, and P5 autonomy have been resolved I think this fall is going to be interesting as the P5 hash out their vision for major college athletics going forward. I think you will see a battle between the SEC and B1G on how to handle the new paradigm. I think it is going to spur further consolidation going forward, but who knows.

This mindset in America that everything has to be a battle at all times is very distressing. That isn't a shot at you jhawk, pretty much everyone thinks that always has to be the case but....it SHOULD be obvious that these Commissioners are working together more than they are working against each other.

If there has ever been any real friction it would have been from the Big Ten/SEC and the Big 12 or the Big Ten and the ACC.

Why folks think that the Big Ten and the SEC are at odds with each other is beyond me. Their interests coincide quite a bit.

They were working together to get the autonomy they wanted. They all knew that changes had to be made or else change would be forced upon them by the courts (and some already has been see the name & likeness trust from O'Bannon ). I doubt they have laid out plans for all the issues regarding compensation that have just come about and other issues will have to be addressed as other court cases are decided. They (the SEC and B1G and the other conferences as well) have had issues before regarding the BCS, the playoff and other smaller issues so it is not wild speculation that these major issues they have to work out will cause some friction. Even schools within the same conference will have differing opinions on how to handle the new issues that need to be addressed. I guarantee there will be some conflict behind the scenes because different schools and conferences value various aspects of all this differently. Whether that conflict plays out in public is the question and how friendly or unfriendly it is. Will they work them out? Yes, because in the end it behooves them to work together and for many issues they will see things similarly.

(08-11-2014 12:13 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 12:08 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-09-2014 04:04 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  Now that the O'Bannon case, UMD/ACC case, and P5 autonomy have been resolved I think this fall is going to be interesting as the P5 hash out their vision for major college athletics going forward. I think you will see a battle between the SEC and B1G on how to handle the new paradigm. I think it is going to spur further consolidation going forward, but who knows.

This mindset in America that everything has to be a battle at all times is very distressing. That isn't a shot at you jhawk, pretty much everyone thinks that always has to be the case but....it SHOULD be obvious that these Commissioners are working together more than they are working against each other.

If there has ever been any real friction it would have been from the Big Ten/SEC and the Big 12 or the Big Ten and the ACC.

Why folks think that the Big Ten and the SEC are at odds with each other is beyond me. Their interests coincide quite a bit.

They were working together to get the autonomy they wanted. They all knew that changes had to be made or else change would be forced upon them by the courts (and some already has been see the name & likeness trust from O'Bannon ). I doubt they have laid out plans for all the issues regarding compensation that have just come about and other issues will have to be addressed as other court cases are decided. They (the SEC and B1G and the other conferences as well) have had issues before regarding the BCS, the playoff and other smaller issues so it is not wild speculation that these major issues they have to work out will cause some friction. Even schools within the same conference will have differing opinions on how to handle the new issues that need to be addressed. I guarantee there will be some conflict behind the scenes because different schools and conferences value various aspects of all this differently. Whether that conflict plays out in public is the question and how friendly or unfriendly it is. Will they work them out? Yes, because in the end it behooves them to work together and for many issues they will see things similarly.

You are correct, there will be conflicts during the process. That is why it does not happen in a matter of days and instead happens in a matter of months.

You are also correct in that those issues will be resolved in compromise because in the end they all have the same agenda. Their differences lie in how to get to that point not what the point is. The Big Ten and the SEC have far fewer differences than they do likeminded opinions. They are like two Princes whom decide to divide the Kingdom between them rather than duke it out.

There is plenty to go around. By working together, they can get so much more done than by working against each other. The threat of the Big Ten moving into the South on the East Coast is over. The boundaries between the two are pretty much set. Co-existence in the Midwest with Missouri and all of it's neighbors is no problem at all.

In the end, it is even likely that the two conferences will coexist within the same State. There are plenty of other "foes" to worry about.

(08-11-2014 12:55 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-11-2014 12:13 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 12:08 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-09-2014 04:04 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  Now that the O'Bannon case, UMD/ACC case, and P5 autonomy have been resolved I think this fall is going to be interesting as the P5 hash out their vision for major college athletics going forward. I think you will see a battle between the SEC and B1G on how to handle the new paradigm. I think it is going to spur further consolidation going forward, but who knows.

This mindset in America that everything has to be a battle at all times is very distressing. That isn't a shot at you jhawk, pretty much everyone thinks that always has to be the case but....it SHOULD be obvious that these Commissioners are working together more than they are working against each other.

If there has ever been any real friction it would have been from the Big Ten/SEC and the Big 12 or the Big Ten and the ACC.

Why folks think that the Big Ten and the SEC are at odds with each other is beyond me. Their interests coincide quite a bit.

They were working together to get the autonomy they wanted. They all knew that changes had to be made or else change would be forced upon them by the courts (and some already has been see the name & likeness trust from O'Bannon ). I doubt they have laid out plans for all the issues regarding compensation that have just come about and other issues will have to be addressed as other court cases are decided. They (the SEC and B1G and the other conferences as well) have had issues before regarding the BCS, the playoff and other smaller issues so it is not wild speculation that these major issues they have to work out will cause some friction. Even schools within the same conference will have differing opinions on how to handle the new issues that need to be addressed. I guarantee there will be some conflict behind the scenes because different schools and conferences value various aspects of all this differently. Whether that conflict plays out in public is the question and how friendly or unfriendly it is. Will they work them out? Yes, because in the end it behooves them to work together and for many issues they will see things similarly.

You are correct, there will be conflicts during the process. That is why it does not happen in a matter of days and instead happens in a matter of months.

You are also correct in that those issues will be resolved in compromise because in the end they all have the same agenda. Their differences lie in how to get to that point not what the point is. The Big Ten and the SEC have far fewer differences than they do likeminded opinions. They are like two Princes whom decide to divide the Kingdom between them rather than duke it out.

There is plenty to go around. By working together, they can get so much more done than by working against each other. The threat of the Big Ten moving into the South on the East Coast is over. The boundaries between the two are pretty much set. Co-existence in the Midwest with Missouri and all of it's neighbors is no problem at all.

In the end, it is even likely that the two conferences will coexist within the same State. There are plenty of other "foes" to worry about.

I agree the agenda will be set by the B1G and SEC. The other 3 conferences will determine whose viewpoint is the winner (least compromised) in whatever compromise comes about when differences exist. Hope that makes sense.

(08-11-2014 02:17 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  

(08-11-2014 12:55 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-11-2014 12:13 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  

(08-10-2014 12:08 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-09-2014 04:04 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  Now that the O'Bannon case, UMD/ACC case, and P5 autonomy have been resolved I think this fall is going to be interesting as the P5 hash out their vision for major college athletics going forward. I think you will see a battle between the SEC and B1G on how to handle the new paradigm. I think it is going to spur further consolidation going forward, but who knows.

This mindset in America that everything has to be a battle at all times is very distressing. That isn't a shot at you jhawk, pretty much everyone thinks that always has to be the case but....it SHOULD be obvious that these Commissioners are working together more than they are working against each other.

If there has ever been any real friction it would have been from the Big Ten/SEC and the Big 12 or the Big Ten and the ACC.

Why folks think that the Big Ten and the SEC are at odds with each other is beyond me. Their interests coincide quite a bit.

They were working together to get the autonomy they wanted. They all knew that changes had to be made or else change would be forced upon them by the courts (and some already has been see the name & likeness trust from O'Bannon ). I doubt they have laid out plans for all the issues regarding compensation that have just come about and other issues will have to be addressed as other court cases are decided. They (the SEC and B1G and the other conferences as well) have had issues before regarding the BCS, the playoff and other smaller issues so it is not wild speculation that these major issues they have to work out will cause some friction. Even schools within the same conference will have differing opinions on how to handle the new issues that need to be addressed. I guarantee there will be some conflict behind the scenes because different schools and conferences value various aspects of all this differently. Whether that conflict plays out in public is the question and how friendly or unfriendly it is. Will they work them out? Yes, because in the end it behooves them to work together and for many issues they will see things similarly.

You are correct, there will be conflicts during the process. That is why it does not happen in a matter of days and instead happens in a matter of months.

You are also correct in that those issues will be resolved in compromise because in the end they all have the same agenda. Their differences lie in how to get to that point not what the point is. The Big Ten and the SEC have far fewer differences than they do likeminded opinions. They are like two Princes whom decide to divide the Kingdom between them rather than duke it out.

There is plenty to go around. By working together, they can get so much more done than by working against each other. The threat of the Big Ten moving into the South on the East Coast is over. The boundaries between the two are pretty much set. Co-existence in the Midwest with Missouri and all of it's neighbors is no problem at all.

In the end, it is even likely that the two conferences will coexist within the same State. There are plenty of other "foes" to worry about.

I agree the agenda will be set by the B1G and SEC. The other 3 conferences will determine whose viewpoint is the winner (least compromised) in whatever compromise comes about when differences exist. Hope that makes sense.

The issues between the SEC and Big 10 will be resolved by the oldest strategy in the book, agree to disagree, and to establish most rivalries between the two of them to maximize profits. I think the SEC and Big 10 will absorb the ACC and Big 12 between them and essentially form two leagues. Whether that is of 20, 24, or more schools will be determined by many factors yet to be decided. I am not the glowing optimist that all current P5 schools will decide to stay, or can afford to stay. I still believe that the number 65 shrinks rather than goes up. I still don't think that number will shrink drastically but 1-5 bowing out would not be surprising.

Before you disagree out of hand does Wake Forest or T.C.U. really want to invest in overhead expenses at levels that they really can't make up? They have no state funding and church and private funds are drying up rapidly. I think they will choose to preserve (eventually) their academic mission and will shrink their expenses to stay in the black on their mission. They may not be alone either. Shalala has already hinted at an eventual de-emphasis on major sports at Miami. What about Washington State? Even Georgia Tech and Purdue need to ask some serious questions about what their priorities really are? Has anyone even considered that some more prominent programs may opt out? Under the right considerations I could see UVa pinning its future to soccer and lacrosse. The reactions of alums might be knee jerk right now but their commitment to Olympic sports is paramount. Would they really sacrifice amateurism to keep paid football and basketball players on campus? It may come to something like that for some schools depending on how the laws break.

So, I wouldn't rule out a P3 just yet. If the networks of the Big 10 and SEC are really that lucrative I expect the PAC to follow suit with permitting ESPN or FOX or both handle their carriage issues. We'll see. But in any event the voting on Big 10 vs SEC on the issues may well be done by choice of affiliation. As long as the two meet in the playoffs, for special rivalry games, and in bowls they both can agree that their favorite color is green and both would disagree amicably all the way to the bank.

(08-11-2014 02:41 AM)JRsec Wrote:  The issues between the SEC and Big 10 will be resolved by the oldest strategy in the book, agree to disagree, and to establish most rivalries between the two of them to maximize profits. I think the SEC and Big 10 will absorb the ACC and Big 12 between them and essentially form two leagues. Whether that is of 20, 24, or more schools will be determined by many factors yet to be decided. I am not the glowing optimist that all current P5 schools will decide to stay, or can afford to stay. I still believe that the number 65 shrinks rather than goes up. I still don't think that number will shrink drastically but 1-5 bowing out would not be surprising.

Before you disagree out of hand does Wake Forest or T.C.U. really want to invest in overhead expenses at levels that they really can't make up? They have no state funding and church and private funds are drying up rapidly. I think they will choose to preserve (eventually) their academic mission and will shrink their expenses to stay in the black on their mission. They may not be alone either. Shalala has already hinted at an eventual de-emphasis on major sports at Miami. What about Washington State? Even Georgia Tech and Purdue need to ask some serious questions about what their priorities really are? Has anyone even considered that some more prominent programs may opt out? Under the right considerations I could see UVa pinning its future to soccer and lacrosse. The reactions of alums might be knee jerk right now but their commitment to Olympic sports is paramount. Would they really sacrifice amateurism to keep paid football and basketball players on campus? It may come to something like that for some schools depending on how the laws break.

So, I wouldn't rule out a P3 just yet. If the networks of the Big 10 and SEC are really that lucrative I expect the PAC to follow suit with permitting ESPN or FOX or both handle their carriage issues. We'll see. But in any event the voting on Big 10 vs SEC on the issues may well be done by choice of affiliation. As long as the two meet in the playoffs, for special rivalry games, and in bowls they both can agree that their favorite color is green and both would disagree amicably all the way to the bank.

I think you could identify 3-4 schools in every P5 conference that would probably contend that the stakes are starting to get too rich for their blood. While I don't know where Purdue stands academically (I think they have a College of Arts) GT has real impediments that restricts their recruiting ability. The mandatory Calculus, lack of a Liberal Arts college and a severe dearth of women and social activities on campus all point to a school that is simply looking for a reason to drop down to another level with regards to sports. The Jackets are closer to a Service Academy (which is why they hired Johnson) than many of their ACC brethren.