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I was surprised this didnt get much discussion around here, apologies if I missed it.

Power 5 given autonomy


Can someone explain to me how this really effects us?

For a long time I could not comprehend why the other conferences would agree to go along with the so-called power 5 and gave them more autonomy. Then I slowly realized it might be a well give the babies what they want or they will take their ball and go home kind of situation.

Aside from other reprucussions, I also found it noteworthy that the CAA was one of two votes against it.

(08-10-2014 07:22 PM)Monarchs Win Wrote:  I was surprised this didnt get much discussion around here, apologies if I missed it.

Power 5 given autonomy


Can someone explain to me how this really effects us?

For a long time I could not comprehend why the other conferences would agree to go along with the so-called power 5 and gave them more autonomy. Then I slowly realized it might be a well give the babies what they want or they will take their ball and go home kind of situation.

Aside from other reprucussions, I also found it noteworthy that the CAA was one of two votes against it.

This is about the bigger picture, here. We should be less concerned with how this affects us in a bubble and more concerned with how it affects the NCAA. In essence, it's all about shifting power from the giant fraud that is the NCAA and giving more power the conferences that really drive the sport. While one can fathom circumstances where it could hurt schools like ODU, I still think it will do a lot more good because the sport will be allowed to grow and as a result the smaller conferences will reap some of the benefits.

Bottom line: the NCAA is being fought and defeated, which is a good thing.

Well, some kid that is on the bubble between a Power 5 school and, say, ODU may decide do go Power 5 because they can give him a nice stipend.

(08-11-2014 10:01 AM)djnva Wrote:  Well, some kid that is on the bubble between a Power 5 school and, say, ODU may decide do go Power 5 because they can give him a nice stipend.

On the flip side of that discussion, smaller schools can now have a better shot at bigger recruits by offering them larger stipends. It's no longer just about exposure or how big the school is--you're talking about actual money that affects these students on a daily basis. In that regard you're actually slightly decreasing the gap between small schools and P5 schools. Obviously this won't ring true 100% of the time, but I believe there are a good number of kids who will go where they can play and be paid as opposed to sitting out for a couple of years and being given less in stipends.

I would be more worried about this story that was on ESPN.com last week.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-schedules

(08-11-2014 11:29 AM)Monarch Maniac 10 Wrote:  On the flip side of that discussion, smaller schools can now have a better shot at bigger recruits by offering them larger stipends.

Of course smaller schools don't have the budget to compete with the larger schools. So, sure, sometimes, a guy that's a bit of a big fish for us may get a bigger stipend if we decide to do that because he's not quite as desired by Va Tech, but generally speaking, we cannot compete with the $$$ they have.

(08-11-2014 12:13 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  I would be more worried about this story that was on ESPN.com last week.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-schedules

This would be very bad. Wood says it won't happen. After reading the article I'm not so sure. P5 greed is going to ruin it for everyone. Notice they also want more scholarships in addition to paying athletes and exclusive scheduling. There are still about 10 or so teams that are in the G5 that could step in and play P5 ball now. As long as they are still among us, I doubt a split will happen. If they move up (UConn, Cincy, Navy, UCF, Boise, BYU, Army, USF, Marshall, SMU...) we're sunk.

(08-11-2014 12:41 PM)djnva Wrote:  

(08-11-2014 11:29 AM)Monarch Maniac 10 Wrote:  On the flip side of that discussion, smaller schools can now have a better shot at bigger recruits by offering them larger stipends.

Of course smaller schools don't have the budget to compete with the larger schools. So, sure, sometimes, a guy that's a bit of a big fish for us may get a bigger stipend if we decide to do that because he's not quite as desired by Va Tech, but generally speaking, we cannot compete with the $$$ they have.

Sure, but we'll never be able to compete money-wise anyway. In this situation, we at least receive more control over our own destiny. But then again, I'm not as concerned with closing the talent gap between P5 and G5 as much as others seem to be.

(08-11-2014 12:13 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  I would be more worried about this story that was on ESPN.com last week.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-schedules

this would be bad for us. I'm excited about being in FBS, but in 5 years we might again be in a lower tiered Div.

The stipends will have to be offered to all sports, specifically women's sports. I can see where this could both hurt and help us. It will hurt in that the Power 5 will gobble up as many dollars as they can and make whatever deals they need to in order to pay for these stipends. On the other hand it may give them pause to think about what they are doing, but with the moves they are making it seems like it will hurt more than help.

The good news is that the current playoff contract is for 12 years and the next 5 has a seat at the table, granted a small one, but a seat none the less

(08-11-2014 01:44 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  The stipends will have to be offered to all sports, specifically women's sports. I can see where this could both hurt and help us. It will hurt in that the Power 5 will gobble up as many dollars as they can and make whatever deals they need to in order to pay for these stipends. On the other hand it may give them pause to think about what they are doing, but with the moves they are making it seems like it will hurt more than help.

The good news is that the current playoff contract is for 12 years and the next 5 has a seat at the table, granted a small one, but a seat none the less

If stipends are required by all sports regardless of the revenue generated by that sport, that would bankrupt this entire idea very quickly. This is why the P5 gaining autonomy is a good thing, IMO, because the NCAA would seemingly try to over regulate any stipend legislation to the point where the system would fall flat on its face.

Hopefully the G5 follows in gaining some independence from the NCAA.

I agree Maniac and would ad that I don't think the NCAA will be an issue because they are becoming irrelevant. We can only hope that he "Other 5" continue to be part of the process because it is good for college athletics. You would never have heard of Goliath if it were not for David and the Lord Almighty.

I do think football with try to figure out a way for universities to not pay all athletes or pay them substantially less. What the Power 5 need to remember is the courts will determine what is fair not them. As soon as women's tennis/field hockey athlete does not get what they think their fair share is it will be off to the courts and the courts have never been kind to the male oriented sports.

The title 9 ruling did not have any thought put to it about revenue and how is would be paid for.

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/3436747

(08-11-2014 03:00 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  I agree Maniac and would ad that I don't think the NCAA will be an issue because they are becoming irrelevant. We can only hope that he "Other 5" continue to be part of the process because it is good for college athletics. You would never have heard of Goliath if it were not for David and the Lord Almighty.

I do think football with try to figure out a way for universities to not pay all athletes or pay them substantially less. What the Power 5 need to remember is the courts will determine what is fair not them. As soon as women's tennis/field hockey athlete does not get what they think their fair share is it will be off to the courts and the courts have never been kind to the male oriented sports.

The title 9 ruling did not have any thought put to it about revenue and how is would be paid for.

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/3436747

Very good points. Again I may be in the minority on this, but I hope the courts aren't forced to do such a thing. It's not their job to determine fair market value of these athletes---that's what the 'market' is for. If Texas wants to pay Joe Schmo $5k a month to throw a football while attending school, so be it. But when he gets hurt or fails expectations, they'll likely think twice about these crazy deals. What's important is that the schools are held responsible for any stipends they hand out. Failing to do so will allow the P5 schools to run rampant with moral hazard and start handing out ungodly amounts of money to these kids because there is little to no risk involved.

So in short: let the schools pay the kids whatever they want (free market), but let them be responsible for those risks as it will allow this newly created market to fluctuate naturally.

Maniac, I am with you on the free market, but society seems to be heading away from personal responsibility and value. With this type of money in play someone is going to cry foul and unfair and there is some lawyer somewhere who wants to make a mark.

(08-11-2014 03:23 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  Maniac, I am with you on the free market, but society seems to be heading away from personal responsibility and value. With this type of money in play someone is going to cry foul and unfair and there is some lawyer somewhere who wants to make a mark.

Again, +1. Unfortunately you're right, this will probably end up being reality as opposed to my pie-in-the-sky view of accountability.

The only leverage the NCAA has is the basketball tournament. If the P5 break away then let them have their own hoops tourney too. It would take all the excitement out of it without the cinderellas. Only problem is they would probably ask the non football Big East A10 and MVC to join as well. But they would be relegated to lo majors then too because they wouldnt have the football money to back them up. The whole thing just sucks and is out of control. The P5 dont like the competition and want to segregate themselves. We'll probably be seeing P5 only waterfountains before long.

(08-11-2014 03:39 PM)monarx Wrote:  The only leverage the NCAA has is the basketball tournament. If the P5 break away then let them have their own hoops tourney too. It would take all the excitement out of it without the cinderellas. Only problem is they would probably ask the non football Big East A10 and MVC to join as well. But they would be relegated to lo majors then too because they wouldnt have the football money to back them up. The whole thing just sucks and is out of control. The P5 dont like the competition and want to segregate themselves. We'll probably be seeing P5 only waterfountains before long.

I think a more likely scenario is some sponsor steps in and forms a tournament to include both P5 and non-P5 schools, just like what the NCAA had. Except this time it will be outside of the realm of NCAA and again, the kids will be reimbursed.

BTW, P5 did not seek autonomy because they were afraid of competition. That sounds a bit like small-school propaganda

(08-11-2014 03:44 PM)Monarch Maniac 10 Wrote:  

(08-11-2014 03:39 PM)monarx Wrote:  The only leverage the NCAA has is the basketball tournament. If the P5 break away then let them have their own hoops tourney too. It would take all the excitement out of it without the cinderellas. Only problem is they would probably ask the non football Big East A10 and MVC to join as well. But they would be relegated to lo majors then too because they wouldnt have the football money to back them up. The whole thing just sucks and is out of control. The P5 dont like the competition and want to segregate themselves. We'll probably be seeing P5 only waterfountains before long.

I think a more likely scenario is some sponsor steps in and forms a tournament to include both P5 and non-P5 schools, just like what the NCAA had. Except this time it will be outside of the realm of NCAA and again, the kids will be reimbursed.

BTW, P5 did not seek autonomy because they were afraid of competition. That sounds a bit like small-school propaganda

exactly, they aren't afraid of the competition, they just want everyone to play a similar schedule so it'll be easier to select and seed a 4-team playoff tournament.

Where is all this talk of schools paying players whatever they want coming from? Everything I have read says that schools will pay full cost of attendance, which is a number determined by whoever determines financial aid dollars, not the schools.

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(08-11-2014 05:35 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Where is all this talk of schools paying players whatever they want coming from? Everything I have read says that schools will pay full cost of attendance, which is a number determined by whoever determines financial aid dollars, not the schools.

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I'm speaking hypothetically in a fully-formed stipend system that allows this new market to flow freely. Will that happen? Not likely, but the NCAA losing another battle is one small step closer to that point.

Also, "full cost of attendance" varies and depending on the legislation drafted, will be shaped to vaguely mean many things. We're just at the tip of the iceberg, here. The NCAA will be either completely gone or totally unrecognizable in ten years.