(08-08-2014 10:50 AM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 10:36 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 10:27 AM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 09:22 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 08:46 PM)craner55 Wrote:  I have my ideas. I recall a book called the Bible mentioning the world becoming more evil.

Exactly... There are many things happening today that go along with this too.

Well, as the last century featured Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, mustard gas, Jim Crow, apartheid, and many other charms, it looks like this century is going to need to pick up the pace if it wants to become more evil.

It doesn't go by century, it has to start somewhere. And Jim Crow (apartheid) laws were only intended for segregation, which was wrong, but nothing like genocide. You can't claim that it was as evil as any of the other things you listed.

Where did I make that claim? Something doesn't have to be the most evil thing ever to contribute to the evilness of a particular time. But I do think you are glossing over the violence inherent in the system when you say Jim Crow and apartheid were just about segregation.

You are claiming the world is getting more evil. I'm pointing out that the world has been a pretty evil place, and things nowadays don't actually seem that bad in comparison.

We are claiming that more individuals in this country are inflicted with evil (Hitler etc doesn't count). More people are becoming possessed, that is the argument.

(08-08-2014 10:58 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  We are claiming that more individuals in this country are inflicted with evil (Hitler etc doesn't count). More people are becoming possessed, that is the argument.

According to craner55 in the chain I was responding to, the Bible says the world is supposed to be getting more evil, not just this country. So Hitler and his genocidal buddies certainly count.

(08-08-2014 10:56 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 10:50 AM)jh Wrote:  Where did I make that claim? Something doesn't have to be the most evil thing ever to contribute to the evilness of a particular time. But I do think you are glossing over the violence inherent in the system when you say Jim Crow and apartheid were just about segregation.
You are claiming the world is getting more evil. I'm pointing out that the world has been a pretty evil place, and things nowadays don't actually seem that bad in comparison.

On the contrare... It's been around a long time without as much news coverage, which makes it seem 10 times as evil. Killing innocent kids in elementary schools, colleges, movie theaters, etc on a regular basis goes beyond the serial killers in the past. There isn't even time to name these people (The Son of Sam, The Co-Ed Killer, The Hillside Stranglers, The BTK Killer, etc) before another heinous killing spree comes along.

That's because you are comparing an exaggerated version of the present against a sanitized version of the past. Look at all the people in this thread who don't realize that violence in this country has declined dramatically.

And the reason spree killers don't get descriptive names is because their identity is usually known within hours of the shooting. It's hard to talk about a serial killer when his identity is unknown without making up some sort of name for him.

(08-08-2014 12:23 AM)jh Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 11:09 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The increased violence is a factor of several issues ... none of them easy to address.

Violence has decreased dramatically over the past 20 years, not increased.

Increase in subjective levels of violence.

I'm with Craner here. It's all in the Bible but unfortunately how many read the Bible? I used to be a devout Catholic and didn't know a thing about the Bible. Sad.

(08-08-2014 11:23 AM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 10:56 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 10:50 AM)jh Wrote:  Where did I make that claim? Something doesn't have to be the most evil thing ever to contribute to the evilness of a particular time. But I do think you are glossing over the violence inherent in the system when you say Jim Crow and apartheid were just about segregation.
You are claiming the world is getting more evil. I'm pointing out that the world has been a pretty evil place, and things nowadays don't actually seem that bad in comparison.

On the contrare... It's been around a long time without as much news coverage, which makes it seem 10 times as evil. Killing innocent kids in elementary schools, colleges, movie theaters, etc on a regular basis goes beyond the serial killers in the past. There isn't even time to name these people (The Son of Sam, The Co-Ed Killer, The Hillside Stranglers, The BTK Killer, etc) before another heinous killing spree comes along.

That's because you are comparing an exaggerated version of the present against a sanitized version of the past. Look at all the people in this thread who don't realize that violence in this country has declined dramatically.

And the reason spree killers don't get descriptive names is because their identity is usually known within hours of the shooting. It's hard to talk about a serial killer when his identity is unknown without making up some sort of name for him.

I wouldn't necessarily say exaggerated. New killing sprees can be exaggerated, but not solved sprees. While John Gacy's murders may seem more horrible than today's murders, they are equal, but the problem is that we have more people like Gacy running around in America.

(08-08-2014 01:06 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I'm with Craner here. It's all in the Bible but unfortunately how many read the Bible? I used to be a devout Catholic and didn't know a thing about the Bible. Sad.

Indeed. The problem isn't just the amount of horrific crime going on, or its news coverage, but there are more criminals like it that are doing the crime.

Can anyone on the doom and gloom side provide any actual evidence that things are getting worse?

(08-08-2014 01:24 PM)jh Wrote:  Can anyone on the doom and gloom side provide any actual evidence that things are getting worse?

It's the nature of the crimes.

(08-08-2014 01:46 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:24 PM)jh Wrote:  Can anyone on the doom and gloom side provide any actual evidence that things are getting worse?

It's the nature of the crimes.

Do you have any actual evidence that the nature of the crimes are getting worse?

(08-08-2014 01:24 PM)jh Wrote:  Can anyone on the doom and gloom side provide any actual evidence that things are getting worse?

I do agree that just as John Locke has proven, that the more guns owned and carried by law abiding citizens,..the "less crime."

We have always lived in a fallen world due to sin. Since the Garden of Eden, Cain murdering Abel. However, the moral state of our Nation and World has declined and continues to.

(08-08-2014 01:48 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:46 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:24 PM)jh Wrote:  Can anyone on the doom and gloom side provide any actual evidence that things are getting worse?

It's the nature of the crimes.

Do you have any actual evidence that the nature of the crimes are getting worse?

No, I don't, at least not without googling a credible source. Do you have any evidence that it's gotten better?

(08-08-2014 02:21 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:48 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:46 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:24 PM)jh Wrote:  Can anyone on the doom and gloom side provide any actual evidence that things are getting worse?

It's the nature of the crimes.

Do you have any actual evidence that the nature of the crimes are getting worse?

No, I don't, at least not without googling a credible source. Do you have any evidence that it's gotten better?

I don't even understand what you mean by the nature of the crimes.

But the fact that there has been a dramatic decrease in violent crimes over the past twenty years is pretty powerful evidence suggesting that things are getting better, not worse.

(08-08-2014 02:34 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 02:21 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:48 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:46 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:24 PM)jh Wrote:  Can anyone on the doom and gloom side provide any actual evidence that things are getting worse?

It's the nature of the crimes.

Do you have any actual evidence that the nature of the crimes are getting worse?

No, I don't, at least not without googling a credible source. Do you have any evidence that it's gotten better?

I don't even understand what you mean by the nature of the crimes.

But the fact that there has been a dramatic decrease in violent crimes over the past twenty years is pretty powerful evidence suggesting that things are getting better, not worse.

Start from post 1 and read the thread from the beginning. Then get back to us. You are completely missing the point.

(08-08-2014 02:34 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 02:21 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:48 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:46 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:24 PM)jh Wrote:  Can anyone on the doom and gloom side provide any actual evidence that things are getting worse?

It's the nature of the crimes.

Do you have any actual evidence that the nature of the crimes are getting worse?

No, I don't, at least not without googling a credible source. Do you have any evidence that it's gotten better?

I don't even understand what you mean by the nature of the crimes.

But the fact that there has been a dramatic decrease in violent crimes over the past twenty years is pretty powerful evidence suggesting that things are getting better, not worse.

Throwing newborn babies in dumpsters, killing 5 year olds execution style along with his mom, dad, and 3 sisters, after he tied them up, etc. All crime is horrible, but the nature of crimes today go beyond those of yesterday.

Couples having a baby just so they can rape it, along with their friends, to the point that her poor little insides were ripped apart and severed, causing her death.

(08-08-2014 03:13 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 02:34 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 02:21 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:48 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:46 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  It's the nature of the crimes.

Do you have any actual evidence that the nature of the crimes are getting worse?

No, I don't, at least not without googling a credible source. Do you have any evidence that it's gotten better?

I don't even understand what you mean by the nature of the crimes.
But the fact that there has been a dramatic decrease in violent crimes over the past twenty years is pretty powerful evidence suggesting that things are getting better, not worse.

Throwing newborn babies in dumpsters, killing 5 year olds execution style along with his mom, dad, and 3 sisters, after he tied them up, etc. All crime is horrible, but the nature of crimes today go beyond those of yesterday.

Based on what evidence? Exposure is an ancient practice and there have always been horrific crimes. Simply repeating that things are worse today when most evidence points to things being better is not an argument.

(08-08-2014 03:30 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 03:13 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 02:34 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 02:21 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 01:48 PM)jh Wrote:  Do you have any actual evidence that the nature of the crimes are getting worse?

No, I don't, at least not without googling a credible source. Do you have any evidence that it's gotten better?

I don't even understand what you mean by the nature of the crimes.
But the fact that there has been a dramatic decrease in violent crimes over the past twenty years is pretty powerful evidence suggesting that things are getting better, not worse.

Throwing newborn babies in dumpsters, killing 5 year olds execution style along with his mom, dad, and 3 sisters, after he tied them up, etc. All crime is horrible, but the nature of crimes today go beyond those of yesterday.

Based on what evidence? Exposure is an ancient practice and there have always been horrific crimes. Simply repeating that things are worse today when most evidence points to things being better is not an argument.

Its almost as if you're taking sides with the criminals here.

(08-08-2014 03:49 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 03:30 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 03:13 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 02:34 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 02:21 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  No, I don't, at least not without googling a credible source. Do you have any evidence that it's gotten better?

I don't even understand what you mean by the nature of the crimes.
But the fact that there has been a dramatic decrease in violent crimes over the past twenty years is pretty powerful evidence suggesting that things are getting better, not worse.

Throwing newborn babies in dumpsters, killing 5 year olds execution style along with his mom, dad, and 3 sisters, after he tied them up, etc. All crime is horrible, but the nature of crimes today go beyond those of yesterday.

Based on what evidence? Exposure is an ancient practice and there have always been horrific crimes. Simply repeating that things are worse today when most evidence points to things being better is not an argument.

Its almost as if you're taking sides with the criminals here.

Yes, clearly I have a bias in favor of today's criminals as opposed to the ones from back in the day. That's what this is all about. What can I say, I just really dislike fedoras.

Or not. I'm just on the side of reality. And here I thought conservatives were supposed to be the ones that appealed to logic and fact instead of emotion. But I don't think the doom & gloomers have advanced a single non-emotional argument in favor of their position.

If you cannot recognize the actual state of the world, how can you possibly hope to make a positive impact? If you want to decrease violence, and you recognize that violence has been decreasing for the past twenty years, you can try and figure out what is working and do more of that (or build off of that). If you mistakenly believe that violence is getting worse, then you will be trying to figure out what went wrong and could wind up abandoning things that are actually working.

(08-08-2014 04:05 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 03:49 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 03:30 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 03:13 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 02:34 PM)jh Wrote:  I don't even understand what you mean by the nature of the crimes.
But the fact that there has been a dramatic decrease in violent crimes over the past twenty years is pretty powerful evidence suggesting that things are getting better, not worse.

Throwing newborn babies in dumpsters, killing 5 year olds execution style along with his mom, dad, and 3 sisters, after he tied them up, etc. All crime is horrible, but the nature of crimes today go beyond those of yesterday.

Based on what evidence? Exposure is an ancient practice and there have always been horrific crimes. Simply repeating that things are worse today when most evidence points to things being better is not an argument.

Its almost as if you're taking sides with the criminals here.

Yes, clearly I have a bias in favor of today's criminals as opposed to the ones from back in the day. That's what this is all about. What can I say, I just really dislike fedoras.

Or not. I'm just on the side of reality. And here I thought conservatives were supposed to be the ones that appealed to logic and fact instead of emotion. But I don't think the doom & gloomers have advanced a single non-emotional argument in favor of their position.

If you cannot recognize the actual state of the world, how can you possibly hope to make a positive impact? If you want to decrease violence, and you recognize that violence has been decreasing for the past twenty years, you can try and figure out what is working and do more of that (or build off of that). If you mistakenly believe that violence is getting worse, then you will be trying to figure out what went wrong and could wind up abandoning things that are actually working.

Keep up with the conversation. It isnt about violence. It is about possessions and they are on the rise.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk