I know it's an insider article, but I thought this was a good read. The writer calls Herman "The Next Great Head Coach". I know you guys thought very highly of him and it appears he is expected to great things with Ohio State this year. http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/travis-h...st?id=3030

Tom Herman was responsible for both the disastrous offensive meltdown against Nicholls State in his opener and the beat-down on Western Michigan in the Texas Bowl in his final game at Rice, which shows the arc of his development as a coach at Rice. I suppose you could say he became a good OC at Rice, but he didn't start out as a good one.

Bailiff hasn't properly found a replacement for Herman, since all his OCs since have been lacking. Edmondson doesn't exactly inspire with his track record and the horrible offensive showing in the Liberty Bowl. Todd Graham's best skill is perhaps his ability to identify good OCs, since offensive production carries his teams. His defenses are generally bad.

Tom Herman, along with the rest of our assistant coaches, are paid very little compared to other schools. Bailiff interviewed and would have hired at least one offensive coach that eventually went to work for coach Graham. We couldn't pay enough to get him.

He actually took a fair amount of heat on here. His first 4 games made a bad initial impression, especially the opener against Nicholls, and that can be hard to overcome.

He did benefit from the Clement-Dillard-Casey combination being a tough matchup for most non-BCS defenses, but deserves credit for utilizing them well. I have to admit, I didn't know how well he would do after Rice. I certainly didn't expect his career to go so much better than Applewhite's.

Even considering the fluctuating talent level, I think the Zaunbrecher-Beaty-Reagan years (remember McGuffie up the middle?) -- and what we've seen so far of the Edmondson-Lynch duo -- have made Owl fans much more appreciative of Herman.

(08-06-2014 04:21 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  He actually took a fair amount of heat on here. His first 4 games made a bad initial impression, especially the opener against Nicholls, and that can be hard to overcome.

He did benefit from the Clement-Dillard-Casey combination being a tough matchup for most non-BCS defenses, but deserves credit for utilizing them well. I have to admit, I didn't know how well he would do after Rice. I certainly didn't expect his career to go so much better than Applewhite's.

Even considering the fluctuating talent level, I think the Zaunbrecher-Beaty-Reagan years (remember McGuffie up the middle?) -- and what we've seen so far of the Edmondson-Lynch duo -- have made Owl fans much more appreciative of Herman.

what does the old song say? You never know what you have until it is gone?

I think Herman is a good coach when he has great talent. I don't think he is very good at adapting when his talent is not great. I think he had a lot of preconceived notions, and tried to fit a lot of square pegs into round holes at Rice. I think his success came because in Chase, Dillard, and Thor he had three exceptional talents for a program at Rice's level. I don't think the offense would have been materially better under his tutelage after 2008 than it was under his successors.

This is not necessarily a knock. Some coaches are great at overachieving with lesser talent, but when they get better talent their results don't improve commensurately. Others get the most out of excellent talent, but when the talent falls off, their results get worse faster. It was said of Leo Durocher as a baseball manager that he could take a 4th place team and finish first or a 5th place team and finish last (in the days of 8-team leagues). Casey Stengel had great success with the Yankees, absolutely none anywhere else. On the other hand, Gene Bartow built great programs from nothing at Memphis and UAB, but in between he failed at UCLA. There are plenty of both types. The Stengels and Durochers probably end up more highly regarded than the Bartows of the world. Fortunately for Herman, at Ohio State he will pretty much always be overflowing with talent. He should probably pick his spots carefully as he moves on in his career.

(08-06-2014 07:17 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  what does the old song say? You never know what you have until it is gone?

Is this the one you had in mind?

(08-06-2014 11:45 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  

(08-06-2014 07:17 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  what does the old song say? You never know what you have until it is gone?

Is this the one you had in mind?

I just vaguely remember the line, but I think it was a much older song. I like this version a lot, though.

(08-07-2014 12:01 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-06-2014 11:45 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  

(08-06-2014 07:17 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  what does the old song say? You never know what you have until it is gone?

Is this the one you had in mind?

((Cinderella: You don't know what you got (till it's gone) .))

I just vaguely remember the line, but I think it was a much older song. I like this version a lot, though.

How about the 6th line from Joni Mitchell's "Big Yellow Taxi" (1970):





" ...
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
... "

I'll never forget the last QB Club Meeting of the year. I sat with Chase and Coach Hermann and they were talking about how excited they were when they discovered putting trips on one side and leaving Dillard one-on-one on the other.

(08-07-2014 12:59 AM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 12:01 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-06-2014 11:45 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  

(08-06-2014 07:17 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  what does the old song say? You never know what you have until it is gone?

Is this the one you had in mind?

((Cinderella: You don't know what you got (till it's gone) .))

I just vaguely remember the line, but I think it was a much older song. I like this version a lot, though.

How about the 6th line from Joni Mitchell's "Big Yellow Taxi" (1970):





" ...
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
... "

I think that's the one I was thinking of. Both are good, in their own way.

(08-06-2014 07:46 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  On the other hand, Gene Bartow built great programs from nothing at Memphis and UAB, but in between he failed at UCLA.

I'll let Fort Bend Owl respond to this...

(08-07-2014 11:58 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(08-06-2014 07:46 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  On the other hand, Gene Bartow built great programs from nothing at Memphis and UAB, but in between he failed at UCLA.

I'll let Fort Bend Owl respond to this...

Well, he didn't fail as in going 3-24, but he didn't maintain the same level as Wooden. Then again, probably nobody could have.

Sorry in California (northern - UC Berkeley territory, not UCLA territory) for a week-plus. Tough to respond to posts.

Bartow's record was probably comparable to a lot of coaches since then. He might have also recruited Marques Johnson? Can't recall the timeline exactly.

It's just tough to follow a legend.

(08-07-2014 01:16 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Sorry in California (northern - UC Berkeley territory, not UCLA territory) for a week-plus. Tough to respond to posts.

Bartow's record was probably comparable to a lot of coaches since then. He might have also recruited Marques Johnson? Can't recall the timeline exactly.

It's just tough to follow a legend.

Yep. He failed to meet unreasonable expectations, but it's hard to count 9 losses in two seasons, with a Final Four and Sweet Sixteen appearance, as failure. Small sample size, and admittedly performed with mostly Wooden recruits, but his winning percentage is second at UCLA. All that said, I'm derailing a thread just to pick a nit - I agree with Owl#s' point.

Johnson won player of the year under Bartow but Wooden brought him in.

Nobody's better at taking threads off-topic than the Parliament. Nobody

I think Bartow's tenure at UCLA was perceived at the time as disappointing, although he's held up pretty well against the standard of those that followed. He may not be the best example, I'm sure there are others, but I was trying to come up with a name in a hurry.

(08-07-2014 02:45 PM)talon owl Wrote:  Nobody's better at taking threads off-topic than the Parliament. Nobody

(08-07-2014 11:37 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:45 PM)talon owl Wrote:  Nobody's better at taking threads off-topic than the Parliament. Nobody

I think of these discussions as conversations, and conversations do tend to wander to new topics from time to time.

Oops, I just did it, didn't I? Or was it already off topic, to the topic of being off topic?

(08-08-2014 01:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Oops, I just did it, didn't I? Or was it already off topic, to the topic of being off topic?

That's a meta-topic.