(08-05-2014 08:19 AM)Borncoog74 Wrote:  UCONN fans,

I think what the ex-CUSA fans are more or less saying is that your growth after joining the Big East was accelerated becuse of being a BCS level school.


ex- CUSA fans,

I think what UCONN fans are saying is that because their fans and athletic department had invested so much $ and support in their basketball program for so long, they were able to reep those benefits and build the other athletic facilities that afforded them an invite to the Big East. So, if those ex--CUSA schools had a basketball program that were as good or as stories as the UCONN basketball program perhaps your school would have been able to build off of it like they did.

Personally, I feel like too many people try to point at 1 thing like (market, tradition, winning, academics, or geographic location). When it is really a combination of everything (all of the above) that is used to determine qualification for any particular conference upgrade. Some conferences weigh certain criteria more than others.

Market works as a strong deciding factor for conferences ready rich in performance, tradition, and history and they just need new markets to sell all of it in. (PAC XII, BIG 10, SEC). Conferences like CUSA, and MWC market is not as strong of a qualifier as the previously mentioned conferences.

It always drove me crazy during realignment when people would say, "HOUSTON, Memphis, and Orlando markets didn't do anything for CUSA so what makes you think your market is going to bring anything to our conference X ?"

The PAC 12 and BIG 10 have shown what they think of markets. The SEC is so ridiculously ahead of all the others football wise they could park a flag in Midland Texas and it would turn to gold. So, while ATM wasn't in a big market their program resembled the other conference members and it worked.

Circumstances certainly helped us for football. We helped found the most dominant basketball league in the nation that then decided to sponsor football. It was recognized as a BCS league and UConn had a standing invite as a founding member of the conference. It's that simple. Some luck but a ton of sweat equity in building the conference to begin with.

(08-05-2014 08:09 AM)UHDC Wrote:  Southern Miss can rot in C-USA for all eternity. Destroyed the best team Houston ever had and are now 2-23 since then and rightfully so.

Blah

Still mad about that game, huh ? Two great teams on the field that day, we just happen to win. I can see why you are upset because UH was undefeated and had BCS bowl in the making if y'all would have won. But what were we (USM) suppose to do, just lay down and lose on purpose ?? Fedora just had us better prepared in that game.




SMTTT

(08-05-2014 08:27 AM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 08:09 AM)UHDC Wrote:  Southern Miss can rot in C-USA for all eternity. Destroyed the best team Houston ever had and are now 2-23 since then and rightfully so.

Blah

Still mad about that game, huh ? Two great teams on the field that day, we just happen to win. I can see why you are upset because UH was undefeated and had BCS bowl in the making if y'all would have won. But what were we (USM) suppose to do, just lay down and lose on purpose ?? Fedora just had us better prepared in that game.




SMTTT

We would have played in the Sugar Bowl vs Michigan and would have had a great opportunity to win. It would have changed the trajectory of our program even more so. Sucks our team didn't play up to their ability that day. A game like that would have put us in the class of Boise State. So yes I am still bitter haha.

(08-05-2014 08:34 AM)UHDC Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 08:27 AM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 08:09 AM)UHDC Wrote:  Southern Miss can rot in C-USA for all eternity. Destroyed the best team Houston ever had and are now 2-23 since then and rightfully so.

Blah

Still mad about that game, huh ? Two great teams on the field that day, we just happen to win. I can see why you are upset because UH was undefeated and had BCS bowl in the making if y'all would have won. But what were we (USM) suppose to do, just lay down and lose on purpose ?? Fedora just had us better prepared in that game.




SMTTT

We would have played in the Sugar Bowl vs Michigan and would have had a great opportunity to win. It would have changed the trajectory of our program even more so. Sucks our team didn't play up to their ability that day. A game like that would have put us in the class of Boise State. So yes I am still bitter haha.

I understand completely. Heck, I was bitter after we had just won that game, we got left out of BCS bowl...(our losses to Marshal & UAB earlier that yr) but we had just beat an incredible UH team on their field with a heisman candidate on national TV...what more could we say ? I'm so glad y'all whipped Penn St .

But y'all did have a solid team that year...explosive




SMTTT

This league would have been better without Tulsa and Tulane.

(08-05-2014 08:45 AM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 08:34 AM)UHDC Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 08:27 AM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 08:09 AM)UHDC Wrote:  Southern Miss can rot in C-USA for all eternity. Destroyed the best team Houston ever had and are now 2-23 since then and rightfully so.

Blah

Still mad about that game, huh ? Two great teams on the field that day, we just happen to win. I can see why you are upset because UH was undefeated and had BCS bowl in the making if y'all would have won. But what were we (USM) suppose to do, just lay down and lose on purpose ?? Fedora just had us better prepared in that game.




SMTTT

We would have played in the Sugar Bowl vs Michigan and would have had a great opportunity to win. It would have changed the trajectory of our program even more so. Sucks our team didn't play up to their ability that day. A game like that would have put us in the class of Boise State. So yes I am still bitter haha.

I understand completely. Heck, I was bitter after we had just won that game, we got left out of BCS bowl...(our losses to Marshal & UAB earlier that yr) but we had just beat an incredible UH team on their field with a heisman candidate on national TV...what more could we say ? I'm so glad y'all whipped Penn St .

But y'all did have a solid team that year...explosive




SMTTT

I remember feeling we SHOUlD win because we were playing at home. But unlike many of the Coogs I knew, I had watched most of the S Miss games that year and knew how good that Jeckle-and-Hyde S Miss team could play when everything was clicking. I still have no idea how the hell that team lost two games (including dropping one to UAB of all things). CUSA should have had a BCS team that year.

(08-05-2014 09:13 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  This league would have been better without Tulsa and Tulane.

Who would you have invited in their place?

(08-04-2014 07:24 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  Honestly?

I hate to be the negative one here, but nostalgia aside, USM needs to go on a Boise State like run to be considered for the American.

Tulane has their market (they are 60ish miles apart)
They are bankrupt.
They'd have below average attendance numbers in the AAC.

...

It sucks but what would they bring beyond happy warm feelings to the old members?

This. They have the worst budget in CUSA, they had a fanbase closer to App State size even when they were contently winning every year they built nothing on, and most importantly they don't have another alum coach willing to stay there 20 years and work for peanuts like Bower was.

What you see now is more of what I think you will see moving forward as they maybe luck out 3 or 4 years and get a Fedora only for them to leave and get a couple duds type rollercoster most of us have delt with. The problem is they have a lot less money to keep them even a couple years longer or to start with a better caliber and chance of success.

(08-05-2014 09:38 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 09:13 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  This league would have been better without Tulsa and Tulane.

Who would you have invited in their place?

No one. Nothing wrong with 10 teams. Just as the Big 12.

(08-05-2014 09:38 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 09:13 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  This league would have been better without Tulsa and Tulane.

Who would you have invited in their place?

I like Tulsa, they should have been invited but I would have invited

BYU
UTEP
UMass

before Tulane personally.

I've grown to like them a little more with their stadium expansion and football improvments but they got to do something about that basketball arena and overall fanbase. It's 3k people.

At least with a school like UTEP they've demonstrated they can put 47k for football in a season in the stands even if they basically give the tickets away, there is potiental there no one else has really shown left out there and basketball is good and well attended. UMass is a state flagship from a relevant state on the east coast. That carries weight IMO if they fix there football even a little. Which at the point Tulane was drafted here they still sucked but at least they are making some strides.

The truth is the AAC can make more of a mark overall in basketball nationally as a conference and need strong basketball teams at the bottom of the conference more than another average type football program. We really just need a couple dominate football program that can play with the big boys and consistently get the Access bowl or win some marquee OOC games vs the P5 and garner attention. The overall football conference however is never going to compare to the P5 like basketball could. It's really not even close. In hoops I mean the MWC had the #1 RPI conference 2 years ago in basketball even. The AAC could do that plus have legit national title contenders where as they really did not.

(08-05-2014 09:54 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 09:38 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 09:13 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  This league would have been better without Tulsa and Tulane.

Who would you have invited in their place?

I like Tulsa, they should have been invited but I would have invited

BYU
UTEP
UMass

before Tulane personally.

I've grown to like them a little more with their stadium expansion and football improvments but they got to do something about that basketball arena and overall fanbase. It's 3k people.

At least with a school like UTEP they've demonstrated they can put 47k for football in a season in the stands even if they basically give the tickets away, there is potiental there no one else has really shown left out there and basketball is good and well attended. UMass is a state flagship from a relevant state on the east coast. That carries weight IMO if they fix there football even a little. Which at the point Tulane was drafted here they still sucked but at least they are making some strides.

Not everything is attendance numbers.

Tulane brings investment in athletics, name recognition (albeit dated), an excellent market and locale, top tier academic reputation, and not least of all lots and lots of $$$$.

UTEP doesn't bring any of that, nor do they even have athletic success. The only thing they have going for them is being the only show in town.

(08-05-2014 07:38 AM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 07:28 AM)uconnwhaler Wrote:  

(08-04-2014 09:37 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(08-04-2014 09:22 PM)TRest3 Wrote:  

(08-04-2014 09:12 PM)Tigersmoke Wrote:  Sorry Trest3 meant no offense I promise and I think you have a valid point so now that we've all been put in the situation we can all see beyond opinions as to who is right. Good luck to uconn and all my American breathren. We could both be correct and all prosper.

None taken. It's just for all the "let's build this conference together" stuff I see on here, it's balanced out with tons of excuse making about why this same core group of schools have all been somehow wronged by UConn, Cincy and USF. No matter how you slice it, this conference is an upgrade over whatever CUSA was the last few years. How many national championships in any sport, other than golf, did CUSA bring home?

Oh boy are we getting in a measuring contest now? The short answer is uconn was afforded advantages by virtue of its bball brand. The rest of us didn't have those advantages.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

We earned our "advantages that you didnt have." You could have had those advantages too, if you didn't suck at basketball. But you did, so you didnt.

No we just started our program later. Heck we made the tourney before. We had our first down year in a long time in two rebuilding years. The reason we didn't get in when usf did is because usf had just built the sun dome and we hadn't built the new arena yet. Then we got genshafted. Look it up. Again the only reason uconn isn't a d2 football program is because you lucked into a bcs conference


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

The Sun Dome was built LONG before the 2003 realignment (1980). USF got the nod because, they were perceived to have a more complete overall athletic program, with a promising young football program, that was preferable to the football-only member UCF would have been. Given our A-Sun-level facilities at the time, it wasn't hard to make that case. It's no coincidence that that's when everything started to change at UCF, with the athletic village, and eventually BHNS. We weren't going to get left out again because of facilities. The "genshafting" came during the last realignment.

(08-05-2014 09:59 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 09:54 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 09:38 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 09:13 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  This league would have been better without Tulsa and Tulane.

Who would you have invited in their place?

I like Tulsa, they should have been invited but I would have invited

BYU
UTEP
UMass

before Tulane personally.

I've grown to like them a little more with their stadium expansion and football improvments but they got to do something about that basketball arena and overall fanbase. It's 3k people.

At least with a school like UTEP they've demonstrated they can put 47k for football in a season in the stands even if they basically give the tickets away, there is potiental there no one else has really shown left out there and basketball is good and well attended. UMass is a state flagship from a relevant state on the east coast. That carries weight IMO if they fix there football even a little. Which at the point Tulane was drafted here they still sucked but at least they are making some strides.

Not everything is attendance numbers.

Tulane brings investment in athletics, name recognition (albeit dated), an excellent market and locale, top tier academic reputation, and not least of all lots and lots of $$$$.

UTEP doesn't bring any of that, nor do they even have athletic success. The only thing they have going for them is being the only show in town.

I don't agree with you on Tulane 100% but I do agree on UTEP. They're located in a far geographic outpost devoid of football talent, have a crappy academic profile and suck balls at football. At least Tulane is in the footprint and has a good recruiting base for the west. That's about as far as I'll go with their addition. That said, I'm not sure who would be better but it's certainly not UTEP.

(08-05-2014 10:37 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 09:59 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 09:54 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 09:38 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 09:13 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  This league would have been better without Tulsa and Tulane.

Who would you have invited in their place?

I like Tulsa, they should have been invited but I would have invited

BYU
UTEP
UMass

before Tulane personally.

I've grown to like them a little more with their stadium expansion and football improvments but they got to do something about that basketball arena and overall fanbase. It's 3k people.

At least with a school like UTEP they've demonstrated they can put 47k for football in a season in the stands even if they basically give the tickets away, there is potiental there no one else has really shown left out there and basketball is good and well attended. UMass is a state flagship from a relevant state on the east coast. That carries weight IMO if they fix there football even a little. Which at the point Tulane was drafted here they still sucked but at least they are making some strides.

Not everything is attendance numbers.

Tulane brings investment in athletics, name recognition (albeit dated), an excellent market and locale, top tier academic reputation, and not least of all lots and lots of $$$$.

UTEP doesn't bring any of that, nor do they even have athletic success. The only thing they have going for them is being the only show in town.

I don't agree with you on Tulane 100% but I do agree on UTEP. They're located in a far geographic outpost devoid of football talent, have a crappy academic profile and suck balls at football. At least Tulane is in the footprint and has a good recruiting base for the west. That's about as far as I'll go with their addition. That said, I'm not sure who would be better but it's certainly not UTEP.

Sure BYU is a no brainer and I think we would have added them over several options but they didn't come so we moved on. The others I would disagree with.

I think Tulane was added for several reasons 1)great market 2)commitment to build their athletic program 3) rich history 4) great academics. First sign of # 2 is their new OCS that looks great and should immediately add to the bottom line for the athletic dept. Not sure who could have been added that would have the potential they bring.

Tulsa is just outside of the top 50 tv markets and they have had a very successful athletic program in football and basketball. Again I don't think any of the teams you mentioned are better in my book.

I think we have a strong cohesive 12 and the exposure will help these programs grow into something bigger than they are today just like it helped Louisville, Cincinnati and others as they moved into the Big East.

(08-05-2014 09:59 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Not everything is attendance numbers.

But it certainly is something. All you have to do is look at the attendance ranks and the vast majority are no coincidence are usually the best programs there are at top. Especially what people consider the most legit elite ones. Sure you'll get an exceptions but it's probably one of the better indicators for how serious you are or where your program really is, how strong the foundation to help you bounce back, hire coaches, attract players etc. People want to play infront of full houses.

UTEP charges basically nothing for tickets but still there are only a handful of program in the G5 that have ever put 47k in a football stadium for an entire year in the last 30 years regardless of circumstances, and they weren't even that great of a team. The high end potential is there.

Quote:Tulane brings investment in athletics,

UTEP brings far better facilities. FAR.

Quote:name recognition (albeit dated),

I despise UTEP but I think they are a bigger name in the athletic world

Quote:an excellent market and locale, top tier academic reputation, and not least of all lots and lots of $$$$.

The budgets are basically the same between Tulane and UTEP. As far as the market, UTEP certainly has more attention in theirs, and academics is great to spin it but the Big East took Boise State before they took Tulane or Rice. It is what it is, after thought and last on the list kind of thing you throw in after to make it sound good.

Quote:UTEP doesn't bring any of that, nor do they even have athletic success.

What's Tulane's real success the last decade?

(08-05-2014 10:37 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  They're located in a far geographic outpost devoid of football talent

Distance is basically no worse than basically any other conferences or CUSA was. Travel is a way of life. West Coast teams have done it for decades as a mater of fact. They didn't name this conference the American because they were confined to one region.

Boise Idaho has no real football talent either. You are what you make it. Let them get one great coach that's willing to stay or stay long enough to stabilize them and hand it off to a great assistant and that's all it would take to put together some success. Stuff like that can be fixed, all it takes is a coach and some players, you can magically find 47k fans to even semi care or the overall fanbase they have or just put the facilites in place they got.

(08-05-2014 09:14 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 08:45 AM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 08:34 AM)UHDC Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 08:27 AM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 08:09 AM)UHDC Wrote:  Southern Miss can rot in C-USA for all eternity. Destroyed the best team Houston ever had and are now 2-23 since then and rightfully so.

Blah

Still mad about that game, huh ? Two great teams on the field that day, we just happen to win. I can see why you are upset because UH was undefeated and had BCS bowl in the making if y'all would have won. But what were we (USM) suppose to do, just lay down and lose on purpose ?? Fedora just had us better prepared in that game.




SMTTT

We would have played in the Sugar Bowl vs Michigan and would have had a great opportunity to win. It would have changed the trajectory of our program even more so. Sucks our team didn't play up to their ability that day. A game like that would have put us in the class of Boise State. So yes I am still bitter haha.

I understand completely. Heck, I was bitter after we had just won that game, we got left out of BCS bowl...(our losses to Marshal & UAB earlier that yr) but we had just beat an incredible UH team on their field with a heisman candidate on national TV...what more could we say ? I'm so glad y'all whipped Penn St .

But y'all did have a solid team that year...explosive




SMTTT

I remember feeling we SHOUlD win because we were playing at home. But unlike many of the Coogs I knew, I had watched most of the S Miss games that year and knew how good that Jeckle-and-Hyde S Miss team could play when everything was clicking. I still have no idea how the hell that team lost two games (including dropping one to UAB of all things). CUSA should have had a BCS team that year.

Yea, ur right...that has been USM history, we always..and I mean always..seem to lose a game or two to teams we shouldn't lose to. Example: 1990 we beat # 6 Florida St in Jacksonville, Fl...then we lose the next game at home to a terrible Mississippi State team . That's always been the case with USM... had a lot of opportunities to take advantage of and we pooped our pants.


SMTTT

I'm far from a UTEP fan but I'll give them respect where it's due. They are the only school I'd care to bring on from CUSA. I'm sure they will get on here and say they would have no interest, which is fine. Either way they will be stuck in CUSA for the forseeable future regardless because they are not getting added.

(08-04-2014 10:04 PM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  

(08-04-2014 09:14 PM)Savacool Wrote:  Southern Miss is a great school but they are tier 2 academic, in a minuscule market, lowly annual athletic budget and cannot win football games for two years.

Wait a minute, u are talking about USM cannot win football games for two years ? First of all, this all started with the hire of Ellis..bad bad decision on us..but it's our fault and yes, I guess you are right, we have been 1-23 the last two seasons...but before that, we were in an 18 yr winning streak, not to mention bowl streak. Now, correct me if I'm wrong...but are u a Tulane fan ?? Tulane ?? You are wanting to say someone else can't win football games ?? Shaking my head at that one..haha. The only, I mean only reason you got in is because of the N.O. Market, not because of wins/losses or bowl games or tradition...no other reason, but market.......but yes, y'all made it. Tulane has no reason to talk Smack with anyone, especially USM.


SMTTT

Well, except we are here, and you started this thread begging to get here.

(08-05-2014 10:59 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(08-05-2014 10:37 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  They're located in a far geographic outpost devoid of football talent

Distance is basically no worse than basically any other conferences or CUSA was. Travel is a way of life. West Coast teams have done it for decades as a mater of fact. They didn't name this conference the American because they were confined to one region.

Boise Idaho has no real football talent either. You are what you make it. Let them get one great coach that's willing to stay or stay long enough to stabilize them and hand it off to a great assistant and that's all it would take to put together some success. Stuff like that can be fixed, all it takes is a coach and some players, you can magically find 47k fans to even semi care or the overall fanbase they have or just put the facilites in place they got.

Yet, UTEP has a 39% all time win percentage. That's just pathetic. Face it, UTEP football sucks ass and their basketball isn't good enough to offset the fact that they're in the middle of freaking nowhere, with no recruiting base, way outside the footprint of the conference.

(08-05-2014 07:46 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-04-2014 10:35 PM)Beagleagle23 Wrote:  

(08-04-2014 08:22 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Wonder what Eagle in Yune is doing these days?

He's still around....posts regularly on the USM Rivals forum

What name does he post under?

'Legendary Eagle'