Ever been amazed at some of the buildings, structures, statues, monuments, etc., that were built throughout history? You think to yourself, how did they build that during that time period? For me, the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris ranks near the top. I have never seen it in person but would love to one day. Construction began in 1163 and was completed in 1345. 95,000 sq. ft.; two towers 226 ft. high each; one spire 300 ft. high; stained glass; architectural details; just unreal considering the time it was built.

What is sad is the level of craftsmanship can't be replicated today. People just don't care enough.

When you see a cathedral like that in real life it's obvious how much pride and care went into its construction. It was a religious mission to build it and it's incredible.

(08-01-2014 08:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  What is sad is the level of craftsmanship can't be replicated today. People just don't care enough.

When you see a cathedral like that in real life it's obvious how much pride and care went into its construction. It was a religious mission to build it and it's incredible.

Considering that the church enslaved the best craftsmen of the time, and commanded their best efforts with the penalty of death and dismemberment as the price of failure, it's not too surprising. Mere profit doesn't hold the same kind of sway. As long as it's good enough for you to get paid, it's good enough. But if you might die or be maimed if it isn't good enough, you tend to give a bit more effort.

Also, cost was no object for the church. They demanded the finest materials for their churches, and denounced all who denied them those materials as heretics and sinners. So they were able to obtain materials that were denied to the more mundane citizens, such as the Kings of the day. The church was far more powerful than mere rulers.

(08-02-2014 09:40 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(08-01-2014 08:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  What is sad is the level of craftsmanship can't be replicated today. People just don't care enough.

When you see a cathedral like that in real life it's obvious how much pride and care went into its construction. It was a religious mission to build it and it's incredible.

Considering that the church enslaved the best craftsmen of the time, and commanded their best efforts with the penalty of death and dismemberment as the price of failure, it's not too surprising. Mere profit doesn't hold the same kind of sway. As long as it's good enough for you to get paid, it's good enough. But if you might die or be maimed if it isn't good enough, you tend to give a bit more effort.

Also, cost was no object for the church. They demanded the finest materials for their churches, and denounced all who denied them those materials as heretics and sinners. So they were able to obtain materials that were denied to the more mundane citizens, such as the Kings of the day. The church was far more powerful than mere rulers.

You could say the same thing about a lot of other ruling societies and cultures in terms of slave/forced labor, raw materials taken by conquest, etc. to build awesome public works - see Egyptians and Romans. To the level the work was under free and inclusive conditions should not take away from the prowess of the engineering, design and construction feats at the time these structures were built.

Enslaved? No, that's entirely inaccurate.

Churches raised money and employed master builders and craftsmen. They didn't use slave labour, corvee labour, or anything of the sort. That's entirely made up.

Building these things were community efforts and religious missions.

Locals groups raise money for particular parts, prostitutes tried to gift windows to various cathedrals, some accepted and some didn't.

(08-02-2014 12:35 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Enslaved? No, that's entirely inaccurate.

Churches raised money and employed master builders and craftsmen. They didn't use slave labour, corvee labour, or anything of the sort. That's entirely made up.

Building these things were community efforts and religious missions.

Locals groups raise money for particular parts, prostitutes tried to gift windows to various cathedrals, some accepted and some didn't.

They were not technically slaves. That's true. But they were slaves none the less. If you've heard otherwise, it was probably from some church funded historical fiction novel.

If you didn't join the local church in those days, you were either killed, or driven out into the wilderness to die alone. There was no choice in the matter.

Being a member of the church and constructing a cathedral aren't the same thing. That should be pretty obvious to just about everybody.

It was in those days, dude. The church didn't allow heretics anywhere near a church.

(08-01-2014 08:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  What is sad is the level of craftsmanship can't be replicated today. People just don't care enough.

Well that and the fact that spending 200 years building a church just doesn't cut it any more.

(08-02-2014 04:23 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  It was in those days, dude. The church didn't allow heretics anywhere near a church.

We still talking about building something or Church membership in general?

We WERE talking about building a medieval church. Belief was essential to the process.

Great book and mini series about the process

http://www.amazon.com/The-Pillars-Earth-...0451166892

There was also a quasi follow up
http://www.amazon.com/World-Without-End-...5M9J47E8ST

I recommend the mini series to get a better visualization of the scope of scale

In HS we spent like 3 days on this exact subject.

Himeji Castle in Japan is another construction marvel with unique architectural details. This hilltop castle dates back to 1346 when it was rebuilt from the original fort structure to a castle complex. Three successive remodels and expansions followed in 1581, 1601-1609 and 1617-1618. It remained in active use until 1868 and it contains a network of 83 buildings and has a maximum height of 152 ft. and covers a total area of 576 acres. The castle contained some advanced defensive systems for the time it was built and included 3 moats and a maze of paths, gates and outer walls designed to confuse an approaching force. Incredibly unique architecture:

Many ancient Shinto shrines are earthquake resistant, having survived many over the centuries.

Tsurugaoka Hachimangu Shinto shrine (1063 A.D.)


Egara Tenjinsha Shrine (1104 A.D.)



The Hiroshima Torii Gate (1182 A.D.) has survived an atomic blast, earthquakes, and tsunamis.

The workers pretty much spent their entire lives building just one of these. Simple because of short life expectancy...those that started the construction never saw the completion.

(08-01-2014 08:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  What is sad is the level of craftsmanship can't be replicated today. People just don't care enough.

When you see a cathedral like that in real life it's obvious how much pride and care went into its construction. It was a religious mission to build it and it's incredible.

We still have the ability if we wanted to do it. I think the problem would be more the expense now. Imagine the cost of building something like that today.

(08-01-2014 08:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  What is sad is the level of craftsmanship can't be replicated today. People just don't care enough.

When you see a cathedral like that in real life it's obvious how much pride and care went into its construction. It was a religious mission to build it and it's incredible.

First, it can still be done, the National Cathedral being a perfect example of a modern classic. But as far as churches go, I consider such edifices to contradict everything that Christ stood for. So the fact that we don't build cathedrals like this anymore I think is a step in the right direction.

(08-03-2014 03:39 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Imagine the cost of building something like that today.

My Craftsman style house was built in 1914 and features 3/4 birds-eye maple hardwood flooring, 12 inch high red oak molding, built-ins, real stained glass windows, thick metal return and air vents, and solid wood doors with forged hinges and hardware among other quality details. And the house is all brick, covered in stucco, both stories.

Compare that to ballooned framed new construction with plastic trim, hollow doors, click flooring, and vinyl windows.

My city house has it's quirks, but damn it has character in comparison newer houses.