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BealeStreetTiger Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
(08-04-2014 01:32 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(08-03-2014 07:32 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  
(08-03-2014 03:17 PM)Mimi Wrote:  
(08-03-2014 05:23 AM)holyterror Wrote:  Especially to the poor FT shooting. No excuse there. Cost us at least 8 points per game.

I will be that guy here...

Memphis shot 64% last year. Made 516 out of 801.
Adding 8 points per game would have required making 788/801, or shooting 98%, shattering the NCAA record.

Had our kids shot 70% for the season, they make 560, or 44 more in 34 games. So they reasonable left 1.3 points off the table per game. Had our kids shot a fantastic 80% for the season, they make 640 free throws. So by not shooting 80% they left 3.6 points per game.

So, while the free throw shooting was down, and may have even specifically cost a game or two (and we may have won a game or two as a result of our opponent's shooting woes)- it really cost about 1-2 points per game last season.

The BEST team last year was CSUN, which shot 79%.

But yes- hopefully they can shoot them better this coming year- without the hype of leaving off 8 points per game.

Just off the top of my head, and I could be wrong but making 8 more FTs per game would not have been totally out of the question if you include making frontends of one & ones (which we missed a bunch of) and getting a chance at the bonus.

Making the first one would ADD another attempt to the 801 total thus bringing down the 98% requirement.

Funny.

Lol, what’s funny is you & Mimi’s attempting to defend the team’s dismal FT shooting last season. You act as though making the frontend of one & ones with a chance for a bonus FT makes no/little difference.

Fact is when shooting 64% as a team you need every opportunity you can get to make up for it. Opposing coaches know this too and it was one reason they hacked us so much in the lane and sent us to the line.
08-05-2014 12:11 AM
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Atlanta Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
Wilson wanting to get closer to home, any idea where? Has Wilson indicated? GA Tech, GA St, UGA, Auburn, Kennesaw St? Don't see GA Tech or SEC type interest in him but he might be OK at Kennesaw St or GA St.
08-05-2014 06:39 AM
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holyterror Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
Or Mercer? They've got a good thing going at that little school.
08-05-2014 07:15 AM
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Atlanta Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
(08-05-2014 07:15 AM)holyterror Wrote:  Or Mercer? They've got a good thing going at that little school.

You're right, Mercer might be a good fit. They usually emphasize defense where Wilson would excel.
08-05-2014 09:37 AM
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MemphisCanes Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
(08-05-2014 12:11 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  Lol, what’s funny is you & Mimi’s attempting to defend the team’s dismal FT shooting last season. You act as though making the frontend of one & ones with a chance for a bonus FT makes no/little difference.

Fact is when shooting 64% as a team you need every opportunity you can get to make up for it. Opposing coaches know this too and it was one reason they hacked us so much in the lane and sent us to the line.

8 pts per game is what you said. There is no way raising our FT% to an average or even above average % means 8 more pts per game.

Making a frontend here or there would make little difference in out PPG. You've got a point on the bad FT shooting, but you're doing terribly at trying to make it.
(This post was last modified: 08-05-2014 10:48 AM by MemphisCanes.)
08-05-2014 10:46 AM
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snowtiger Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
There's intangible points to be made about Missed free throws too, especially on a one and one. They are just flat out demoralizing. Memphis players know this. Puts an added tweak to the mix.

You gotta be mentally tough to play for Memphis. Come to think of it, you gotta be mentally tough to be a fan too. lol
08-05-2014 11:31 AM
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450bench Online
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Post: #107
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
(08-05-2014 10:46 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 12:11 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  Lol, what’s funny is you & Mimi’s attempting to defend the team’s dismal FT shooting last season. You act as though making the frontend of one & ones with a chance for a bonus FT makes no/little difference.

Fact is when shooting 64% as a team you need every opportunity you can get to make up for it. Opposing coaches know this too and it was one reason they hacked us so much in the lane and sent us to the line.

8 pts per game is what you said. There is no way raising our FT% to an average or even above average % means 8 more pts per game.

Making a frontend here or there would make little difference in out PPG. You've got a point on the bad FT shooting, but you're doing terribly at trying to make it.

No way to quantify with 100% certainty but 8 pts. per game is not an unreasonable number.
08-05-2014 01:03 PM
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MemphisCanes Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
(08-05-2014 01:03 PM)450bench Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 10:46 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 12:11 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  Lol, what’s funny is you & Mimi’s attempting to defend the team’s dismal FT shooting last season. You act as though making the frontend of one & ones with a chance for a bonus FT makes no/little difference.

Fact is when shooting 64% as a team you need every opportunity you can get to make up for it. Opposing coaches know this too and it was one reason they hacked us so much in the lane and sent us to the line.

8 pts per game is what you said. There is no way raising our FT% to an average or even above average % means 8 more pts per game.

Making a frontend here or there would make little difference in out PPG. You've got a point on the bad FT shooting, but you're doing terribly at trying to make it.

No way to quantify with 100% certainty but 8 pts. per game is not an unreasonable number.

8 pts per game on missed FTs is a super unreasonable #. Going from our below average % to an average % would add, what, 1 pt per game according to the calculations we've already seen?

We made 15.5 FTs per game, and shot 23.9 FTs per game. If we made 8 more FTs per game (8 pts), we'd be making 23.5 out of 23.9 per game, or 98%.

If we got 5 more FTs per game because of the front end of 1 and 1's (Waaaay more than I think we'd get, I think missed front ends due to our below average % probably meant us seeing 1 or 2 less FTs per game), we'd be 23.5 our of 28.9, or 81%. Highest in the NCAA by two full % points. Pretty unreasonable.
(This post was last modified: 08-05-2014 02:23 PM by MemphisCanes.)
08-05-2014 02:22 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #109
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
(08-05-2014 01:03 PM)450bench Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 10:46 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 12:11 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  Lol, what’s funny is you & Mimi’s attempting to defend the team’s dismal FT shooting last season. You act as though making the frontend of one & ones with a chance for a bonus FT makes no/little difference.

Fact is when shooting 64% as a team you need every opportunity you can get to make up for it. Opposing coaches know this too and it was one reason they hacked us so much in the lane and sent us to the line.

8 pts per game is what you said. There is no way raising our FT% to an average or even above average % means 8 more pts per game.

Making a frontend here or there would make little difference in out PPG. You've got a point on the bad FT shooting, but you're doing terribly at trying to make it.

No way to quantify with 100% certainty but 8 pts. per game is not an unreasonable number.

450bench says...
Quote:No way to quantify with 100% certainty but 8 pts. per game is not an unreasonable number.

BealeStreetTiger says...
Quote:Just off the top of my head, and I could be wrong but making 8 more FTs per game would not have been totally out of the question if you include making frontends of one & ones (which we missed a bunch of) and getting a chance at the bonus.

The same guys making the same tired arguments; purely because they hate Pastner. They are so in love with putting Pastner down, that they will say anything without putting any kind of thought into it.

Assume we miss two less front ends per game...

34 games (actual)
516 made free throws (actual)
801 free throw attempts (actual)

- Add 69 free throws to the total to account for the missed front ends
- Add 272 made free throws needed for more 8 points per game (34X8)

788 free throws made (adjusted)
869 free throw attempts (adjusted)

90.7% free throw percentage needed in order to score 8 more points per game.

I have to admit that between them; BealeStreetTiger and 450Bench did make one accurate statement. BealeStreetTiger said...

Quote:Just off the top of my head, and I could be wrong

Sorry for being a super big meanie and a bad insulter. 8 more points per game is a perfectly reasonable and well thought argument.
(This post was last modified: 08-05-2014 03:09 PM by Stammers.)
08-05-2014 03:09 PM
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BealeStreetTiger Offline
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Post: #110
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
(08-05-2014 03:09 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 01:03 PM)450bench Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 10:46 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 12:11 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  Lol, what’s funny is you & Mimi’s attempting to defend the team’s dismal FT shooting last season. You act as though making the frontend of one & ones with a chance for a bonus FT makes no/little difference.

Fact is when shooting 64% as a team you need every opportunity you can get to make up for it. Opposing coaches know this too and it was one reason they hacked us so much in the lane and sent us to the line.

8 pts per game is what you said. There is no way raising our FT% to an average or even above average % means 8 more pts per game.

Making a frontend here or there would make little difference in out PPG. You've got a point on the bad FT shooting, but you're doing terribly at trying to make it.

No way to quantify with 100% certainty but 8 pts. per game is not an unreasonable number.

450bench says...
Quote:No way to quantify with 100% certainty but 8 pts. per game is not an unreasonable number.

BealeStreetTiger says...
Quote:Just off the top of my head, and I could be wrong but making 8 more FTs per game would not have been totally out of the question if you include making frontends of one & ones (which we missed a bunch of) and getting a chance at the bonus.

The same guys making the same tired arguments; purely because they hate Pastner. They are so in love with putting Pastner down, that they will say anything without putting any kind of thought into it.

Assume we miss two less front ends per game...

34 games (actual)
516 made free throws (actual)
801 free throw attempts (actual)

- Add 69 free throws to the total to account for the missed front ends
- Add 272 made free throws needed for more 8 points per game (34X8)

788 free throws made (adjusted)
869 free throw attempts (adjusted)

90.7% free throw percentage needed in order to score 8 more points per game.

I have to admit that between them; BealeStreetTiger and 450Bench did make one accurate statement. BealeStreetTiger said...

Quote:Just off the top of my head, and I could be wrong

Sorry for being a super big meanie and a bad insulter. 8 more points per game is a perfectly reasonable and well thought argument.

Off the top of my head is good enough for a simple equation like this. Your numbers appear to be correct but your formula is wrong. 8pts may by a bit high for an average but not unreasonable in many games.

I won’t waste more of my time trying to explain it ABC because I’m sure Josh has already realized this and is working on it. He’s a numbers guy too.
08-05-2014 03:42 PM
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ItsDude Offline
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Post: #111
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
(08-05-2014 09:37 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 07:15 AM)holyterror Wrote:  Or Mercer? They've got a good thing going at that little school.

You're right, Mercer might be a good fit. They usually emphasize defense where Wilson would excel.

I'd like to see him at Georgia State with Ryan Harrow and Kevin Ware.
08-05-2014 07:08 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #112
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
(08-05-2014 03:42 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 03:09 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 01:03 PM)450bench Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 10:46 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 12:11 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  Lol, what’s funny is you & Mimi’s attempting to defend the team’s dismal FT shooting last season. You act as though making the frontend of one & ones with a chance for a bonus FT makes no/little difference.

Fact is when shooting 64% as a team you need every opportunity you can get to make up for it. Opposing coaches know this too and it was one reason they hacked us so much in the lane and sent us to the line.

8 pts per game is what you said. There is no way raising our FT% to an average or even above average % means 8 more pts per game.

Making a frontend here or there would make little difference in out PPG. You've got a point on the bad FT shooting, but you're doing terribly at trying to make it.

No way to quantify with 100% certainty but 8 pts. per game is not an unreasonable number.

450bench says...
Quote:No way to quantify with 100% certainty but 8 pts. per game is not an unreasonable number.

BealeStreetTiger says...
Quote:Just off the top of my head, and I could be wrong but making 8 more FTs per game would not have been totally out of the question if you include making frontends of one & ones (which we missed a bunch of) and getting a chance at the bonus.

The same guys making the same tired arguments; purely because they hate Pastner. They are so in love with putting Pastner down, that they will say anything without putting any kind of thought into it.

Assume we miss two less front ends per game...

34 games (actual)
516 made free throws (actual)
801 free throw attempts (actual)

- Add 69 free throws to the total to account for the missed front ends
- Add 272 made free throws needed for more 8 points per game (34X8)

788 free throws made (adjusted)
869 free throw attempts (adjusted)

90.7% free throw percentage needed in order to score 8 more points per game.

I have to admit that between them; BealeStreetTiger and 450Bench did make one accurate statement. BealeStreetTiger said...

Quote:Just off the top of my head, and I could be wrong

Sorry for being a super big meanie and a bad insulter. 8 more points per game is a perfectly reasonable and well thought argument.

Off the top of my head is good enough for a simple equation like this. Your numbers appear to be correct but your formula is wrong. 8pts may by a bit high for an average but not unreasonable in many games.

I won’t waste more of my time trying to explain it ABC because I’m sure Josh has already realized this and is working on it. He’s a numbers guy too.

Quote:I won’t waste more of my time trying to explain it

Exactly what did you try to explain? What was the explanation?

You did the same spectacular job like the time you explained how Bill Self was going to turn Tarik Black into a superstar; or how Black was actually more productive this year.
08-05-2014 08:13 PM
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snowtiger Offline
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Post: #113
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
(08-05-2014 03:09 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 01:03 PM)450bench Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 10:46 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  
(08-05-2014 12:11 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  Lol, what’s funny is you & Mimi’s attempting to defend the team’s dismal FT shooting last season. You act as though making the frontend of one & ones with a chance for a bonus FT makes no/little difference.

Fact is when shooting 64% as a team you need every opportunity you can get to make up for it. Opposing coaches know this too and it was one reason they hacked us so much in the lane and sent us to the line.

8 pts per game is what you said. There is no way raising our FT% to an average or even above average % means 8 more pts per game.

Making a frontend here or there would make little difference in out PPG. You've got a point on the bad FT shooting, but you're doing terribly at trying to make it.

No way to quantify with 100% certainty but 8 pts. per game is not an unreasonable number.

450bench says...
Quote:No way to quantify with 100% certainty but 8 pts. per game is not an unreasonable number.

BealeStreetTiger says...
Quote:Just off the top of my head, and I could be wrong but making 8 more FTs per game would not have been totally out of the question if you include making frontends of one & ones (which we missed a bunch of) and getting a chance at the bonus.

The same guys making the same tired arguments; purely because they hate Pastner. They are so in love with putting Pastner down, that they will say anything without putting any kind of thought into it.

Assume we miss two less front ends per game...

34 games (actual)
516 made free throws (actual)
801 free throw attempts (actual)

- Add 69 free throws to the total to account for the missed front ends
- Add 272 made free throws needed for more 8 points per game (34X8)

788 free throws made (adjusted)
869 free throw attempts (adjusted)

90.7% free throw percentage needed in order to score 8 more points per game.

I have to admit that between them; BealeStreetTiger and 450Bench did make one accurate statement. BealeStreetTiger said...

Quote:Just off the top of my head, and I could be wrong

Sorry for being a super big meanie and a bad insulter. 8 more points per game is a perfectly reasonable and well thought argument.

It's true. Some will make the same tired point over and over and over again, no matter what the stats, no matter what the outcome. It's almost like a four-wheeler, stuck in a bog, continually using gas and spinning its wheels.

This phenomenon goes beyond logic. At some point, we may have to leave them there, instead of trying to pull them out.
08-05-2014 08:22 PM
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80sTiger Offline
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Post: #114
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
John Martin ‏@JohnMartin929 · 7m
Word is Memphis transfer Damien Wilson is looking at Georgia and Georgia State.
08-06-2014 12:57 PM
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Mimi Offline
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Post: #115
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
Poking fun at the hyperbole of leaving 8 points a game at the free throw line is hardly defending sub par free throw shooting.

Read the message- not the messenger.

We see those style reactions all the time- sometimes calm facts wake people up to the fact that just maybe, the over the top histrionics are a bit off.

Poor free throw shooting? Yes.
8 points per game? Not even close and more accurately, all teams leave some points off the table at the line- even the top team last year - but our kids leave a point or two more than them- no more than that.
08-07-2014 12:57 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #116
RE: Damien Wilson transferring...
(08-07-2014 12:57 PM)Mimi Wrote:  Poking fun at the hyperbole of leaving 8 points a game at the free throw line is hardly defending sub par free throw shooting.

Read the message- not the messenger.

We see those style reactions all the time- sometimes calm facts wake people up to the fact that just maybe, the over the top histrionics are a bit off.

Poor free throw shooting? Yes.
8 points per game? Not even close and more accurately, all teams leave some points off the table at the line- even the top team last year - but our kids leave a point or two more than them- no more than that.

Some people are so blinded by hate that it isn't really possible to debate rationally with them.

Free Throw Math For Dummies
64.4% Memphis (326)
75.0% Albany (18)

Even if we were an AMAZING free throw shooting team; shooting 75% as a team would have added 2.5 points per game to our total. If we miss 2 less front ends per game and shoot 75% it adds up to and additional 3.2 points per game. We would have had to shoot 94.4% as a team in order to make up an 8 point per game difference.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2014 02:52 PM by Stammers.)
08-07-2014 02:47 PM
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