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IRS Targeting Churches
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oklalittledixie Offline
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IRS Targeting Churches
IRS Strikes Deal With Atheists To Monitor Churches

Government's assault on religious liberty has hit a new low as the IRS settles with atheists by promising to monitor sermons for mentions of the right to life and traditional marriage.

A lawsuit filed by the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) asserted that the Internal Revenue Service ignored complaints about churches' violating their tax-exempt status by routinely promoting political issues, legislation and candidates from the pulpit.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials...urches.htm
07-31-2014 08:34 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
So the IRS will be looking at Jesse Jackson's church, Sharptons church, and Wrights church. And what about them Muslims, eh?
07-31-2014 11:20 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
Black, mostly democrat churches are the most common place for his type of stuff.
07-31-2014 11:25 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
(07-31-2014 08:34 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  IRS Strikes Deal With Atheists To Monitor Churches

Government's assault on religious liberty has hit a new low as the IRS settles with atheists by promising to monitor sermons for mentions of the right to life and traditional marriage.

A lawsuit filed by the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) asserted that the Internal Revenue Service ignored complaints about churches' violating their tax-exempt status by routinely promoting political issues, legislation and candidates from the pulpit.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials...urches.htm

Life beginning before birth and the definition of marriage are tenants of the Christian faith. This decision says that the government can go into a church and punish theology...

And note this was a "settlement" and not a court decision.
07-31-2014 11:31 PM
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South Carolina Duke Offline
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
(07-31-2014 11:20 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  So the IRS will be looking at Jesse Jackson's church, Sharptons church, and Wrights church. And what about them Muslims, eh?

+1
08-02-2014 01:12 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
My Pastor has stated this possible scenario unfolding where churches could lose their tax-exempt status if they refused to acknowledge gay marriage and not permitting it within the church. The article centers on the FFRF's complaint about the IRS failing to uphold a court ruling to monitor churches' endorsing political candidates or conducting activities considered to be "politicking." I hope that with all the recent controversy and bad PR from the Lois Lerner fiasco the IRS is only offering a token response to the FFRF's complaint. Saying you are going to do something vs. actually enforcing it are two different things. On the other hand, this is a way for the IRS to get their "foot in the door" to monitor churches and the threat that the monitoring will only increase over time and lead to more restrictions placed on churches. If that happens, it's time to draw a line in the sand. Enough is enough! Don't tread on my church! 05-nono 05-mafia
08-02-2014 01:48 PM
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South Carolina Duke Offline
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
LBJ began all of this crap against the churches a while ago.

But this goes both ways. Pastors need to be more like shepherds and not CEO's. Speak up for the Nation and the Constitution! A Christian's duty is to rise up against Evil of Government.
08-02-2014 01:57 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
(08-02-2014 01:48 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  My Pastor has stated this possible scenario unfolding where churches could lose their tax-exempt status if they refused to acknowledge gay marriage and not permitting it within the church. The article centers on the FFRF's complaint about the IRS failing to uphold a court ruling to monitor churches' endorsing political candidates or conducting activities considered to be "politicking." I hope that with all the recent controversy and bad PR from the Lois Lerner fiasco the IRS is only offering a token response to the FFRF's complaint. Saying you are going to do something vs. actually enforcing it are two different things. On the other hand, this is a way for the IRS to get their "foot in the door" to monitor churches and the threat that the monitoring will only increase over time and lead to more restrictions placed on churches. If that happens, it's time to draw a line in the sand. Enough is enough! Don't tread on my church! 05-nono 05-mafia

You don't have a right to a tax deduction for a church or any other private club.

No tax deduction, no taxpayer funding - no restrictions.
08-02-2014 02:03 PM
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UofMstateU Online
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
(08-02-2014 02:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You don't have a right to a tax deduction for a church or any other private club.

No tax deduction, no taxpayer funding - no restrictions.

How about Planned Parenthood?
08-02-2014 02:51 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
(08-02-2014 02:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(08-02-2014 01:48 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  My Pastor has stated this possible scenario unfolding where churches could lose their tax-exempt status if they refused to acknowledge gay marriage and not permitting it within the church. The article centers on the FFRF's complaint about the IRS failing to uphold a court ruling to monitor churches' endorsing political candidates or conducting activities considered to be "politicking." I hope that with all the recent controversy and bad PR from the Lois Lerner fiasco the IRS is only offering a token response to the FFRF's complaint. Saying you are going to do something vs. actually enforcing it are two different things. On the other hand, this is a way for the IRS to get their "foot in the door" to monitor churches and the threat that the monitoring will only increase over time and lead to more restrictions placed on churches. If that happens, it's time to draw a line in the sand. Enough is enough! Don't tread on my church! 05-nono 05-mafia

You don't have a right to a tax deduction for a church or any other private club.

No tax deduction, no taxpayer funding - no restrictions.

The tax code is used ALL the time to encourage behavior we want, and is thought to be beneficial to society, like going to Church. And to punish behavior we don't want- cigarette taxes, sugary drink taxes, booze etc.

It's the law after all. Settled law, that is.
08-02-2014 03:10 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
(08-02-2014 03:10 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(08-02-2014 02:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(08-02-2014 01:48 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  My Pastor has stated this possible scenario unfolding where churches could lose their tax-exempt status if they refused to acknowledge gay marriage and not permitting it within the church. The article centers on the FFRF's complaint about the IRS failing to uphold a court ruling to monitor churches' endorsing political candidates or conducting activities considered to be "politicking." I hope that with all the recent controversy and bad PR from the Lois Lerner fiasco the IRS is only offering a token response to the FFRF's complaint. Saying you are going to do something vs. actually enforcing it are two different things. On the other hand, this is a way for the IRS to get their "foot in the door" to monitor churches and the threat that the monitoring will only increase over time and lead to more restrictions placed on churches. If that happens, it's time to draw a line in the sand. Enough is enough! Don't tread on my church! 05-nono 05-mafia

You don't have a right to a tax deduction for a church or any other private club.

No tax deduction, no taxpayer funding - no restrictions.

The tax code is used ALL the time to encourage behavior we want, and is thought to be beneficial to society, like going to Church. And to punish behavior we don't want- cigarette taxes, sugary drink taxes, booze etc.

It's the law after all. Settled law, that is.

While not addressing the validity of going to Church as being a predictor of being something we 'want',

it is Constitutional to allow a deduction for contributions to a church. But the Constitution does not MANDATE it. There's no right, implied or otherwise, to a tax deduction for a religious entity.

The only place where there might be a Constitutional question, either way, is if there are special parts of the tax code that provide for favorable treatment of religion, that are not available for the non-religious. For example, if a pastor's home is tax free, for example, but a non-religious non-profit can't provide the same housing tax free to their leaders.

But the IRS has rules barring politics using tax free entities. I'd prefer that the IRS strictly enforce that against all churches and while we at it, get rid of the 501 c 3 rules too. And that would hit white churches, black churches, all churches, a lot of unions and liberal groups, and other political groups too. If you are engaged in political advocacy, you shouldn't get a tax deduction. Period.

But then there's the other question as to the benefit to society from a country club or another private club/church. It doesn't seem to really be an effective use of the tax structure.

Other nations d,o it in a better way. They demand that the recipient of the tax deduction prove a tangible benefit accessable to all segments of society (Sorry, Polo Club of Palm Beach - you really aren't going to qualify)
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2014 03:54 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
08-02-2014 03:45 PM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
Here are the little trolls we are working with. Thankfully, this cretin lost his lawsuit.



08-02-2014 03:49 PM
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
(08-02-2014 02:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You don't have a right to a tax deduction for a church or any other private club.

No tax deduction, no taxpayer funding - no restrictions.

I'm not following your point. I'm no tax expert or have an accountant background but churches that fall under the 501©(3) IRS definition don't have to pay income taxes on income related to the organization's charitable purposes (e.g., special fundraiser, volunteer work, coffee shop revenue from sales to members, etc.). In addition, donations and tithes from parishioners are tax-deductible on the donor's income tax return. To maintain these special exemptions under the 501©(3) status specific guidelines and restrictions have to be followed. IRS publication 1828 lists all of the current requirements for churches and religious organizations that are quite lengthy and have "gray areas" open for interpretation (no surprise on either account for the IRS).

If the IRS determined that a church was not following these guidelines they are subject (as any non-profit) to fines and/or losing their tax exempt status. Therein lies the rub. There is genuine concern that the IRS will overstep the bounds of interpretation of the rules or perform selective enforcement of the rules for its own purposes (see Lois Lerner). Going one step further, if the liberal agenda continues to be pushed and advanced, it is possible that the tax exempt laws could be changed to require a church to recognize/perform gay marriage for example. Under that scenario, a church would not be required to obey and could continue operating without tax exempt status. However, I guarantee that many churches would cave in to the IRS under this forced tax incentive and I believe that is just wrong. Thus back to my earlier post, the IRS needs to stay out of the pulpit when it comes to church doctrine.
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2014 03:51 PM by UCGrad1992.)
08-02-2014 03:49 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
Since when is it political to say the Bible defines marriage as One Man and One Woman? Since when is it political to say according to the Bible, life begins at conception.

This will be a huge infringement on religious rights and no doubt see the IRS get ***** slapped by the supreme court if it tries to attack churches.
08-02-2014 03:50 PM
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
(08-02-2014 03:45 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(08-02-2014 03:10 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(08-02-2014 02:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(08-02-2014 01:48 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  My Pastor has stated this possible scenario unfolding where churches could lose their tax-exempt status if they refused to acknowledge gay marriage and not permitting it within the church. The article centers on the FFRF's complaint about the IRS failing to uphold a court ruling to monitor churches' endorsing political candidates or conducting activities considered to be "politicking." I hope that with all the recent controversy and bad PR from the Lois Lerner fiasco the IRS is only offering a token response to the FFRF's complaint. Saying you are going to do something vs. actually enforcing it are two different things. On the other hand, this is a way for the IRS to get their "foot in the door" to monitor churches and the threat that the monitoring will only increase over time and lead to more restrictions placed on churches. If that happens, it's time to draw a line in the sand. Enough is enough! Don't tread on my church! 05-nono 05-mafia
You don't have a right to a tax deduction for a church or any other private club.

No tax deduction, no taxpayer funding - no restrictions.

The tax code is used ALL the time to encourage behavior we want, and is thought to be beneficial to society, like going to Church. And to punish behavior we don't want- cigarette taxes, sugary drink taxes, booze etc.

It's the law after all. Settled law, that is.

While not addressing the validity of going to Church as being a predictor of being something we 'want'.

Oh, it is Constitutional to allow a deduction for contributions to a church. But the Constitution does not MANDATE it. There's no right, implied or otherwise, to a tax deduction for a religious entity.

Nor is there for having kids, or buying a house. What's your point? Again, the tax code has been used forever for social engineering for things beneficial to society as a whole, like going to Church. Try it some time!
08-02-2014 03:51 PM
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Claw Offline
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
The IRS will take a butt whipping in court.
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2014 03:52 PM by Claw.)
08-02-2014 03:52 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
The good old FFRF.

With how football recruiting at Clemson is going since their failed attack on Dabo Swinney you might see more churches spring up. I'm just hoping that they make an issue about it next spring too. We aren't going to turn down the free publicity. 03-lmfao
08-02-2014 03:53 PM
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
(08-02-2014 02:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(08-02-2014 01:48 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  My Pastor has stated this possible scenario unfolding where churches could lose their tax-exempt status if they refused to acknowledge gay marriage and not permitting it within the church. The article centers on the FFRF's complaint about the IRS failing to uphold a court ruling to monitor churches' endorsing political candidates or conducting activities considered to be "politicking." I hope that with all the recent controversy and bad PR from the Lois Lerner fiasco the IRS is only offering a token response to the FFRF's complaint. Saying you are going to do something vs. actually enforcing it are two different things. On the other hand, this is a way for the IRS to get their "foot in the door" to monitor churches and the threat that the monitoring will only increase over time and lead to more restrictions placed on churches. If that happens, it's time to draw a line in the sand. Enough is enough! Don't tread on my church! 05-nono 05-mafia

You don't have a right to a tax deduction for a church or any other private club.

No tax deduction, no taxpayer funding - no restrictions.

Your argument is moronic. No restrictions seriously? So a mosque should be forced to accept a Jew as a member? A Christian church accept an atheist? A Synagogue accept a Muslim? There is a difference between accepting the right of others to peacefully co-exist and forcing religious organizations to accept those who don't agree with the tenants of that religion.

There are hundreds of tax exempt LGBT organizations and their primary purpose for existing is to promote a political (GAY) agenda so stop with the BS. NO tax exempt organization is allowed to promote a political agenda.
08-02-2014 04:00 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
(08-02-2014 04:00 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(08-02-2014 02:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(08-02-2014 01:48 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  My Pastor has stated this possible scenario unfolding where churches could lose their tax-exempt status if they refused to acknowledge gay marriage and not permitting it within the church. The article centers on the FFRF's complaint about the IRS failing to uphold a court ruling to monitor churches' endorsing political candidates or conducting activities considered to be "politicking." I hope that with all the recent controversy and bad PR from the Lois Lerner fiasco the IRS is only offering a token response to the FFRF's complaint. Saying you are going to do something vs. actually enforcing it are two different things. On the other hand, this is a way for the IRS to get their "foot in the door" to monitor churches and the threat that the monitoring will only increase over time and lead to more restrictions placed on churches. If that happens, it's time to draw a line in the sand. Enough is enough! Don't tread on my church! 05-nono 05-mafia

You don't have a right to a tax deduction for a church or any other private club.

No tax deduction, no taxpayer funding - no restrictions.

Your argument is moronic. No restrictions seriously? So a mosque should be forced to accept a Jew as a member? A Christian church accept an atheist? A Synagogue accept a Muslim? There is a difference between accepting the right of others to peacefully co-exist and forcing religious organizations to accept those who don't agree with the tenants of that religion.

There are hundreds of tax exempt LGBT organizations and their primary purpose for existing is to promote a political (GAY) agenda so stop with the BS. NO tax exempt organization is allowed to promote a political agenda.

My point is that ANY organization receiving a tax deduction can be made subject to restrictions as a condition of maintaining the deduction. If a church or country club wants to maintain their independence, the only Constitutional way to guarantee it is to not take the deduction.

That goes for the LGBT caucus or Second Baptist Church, both of whom are heavily engaged in political advocacy
08-02-2014 04:08 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: IRS Targeting Churches
(08-02-2014 03:52 PM)Claw Wrote:  The IRS will take a butt whipping in court.

On what grounds. The way the IRS works is that they don't investigate unless someone makes a complaint. So the FFRF makes complaints, which then sets off investigations by the IRS.

You guys are perfectly welcome to form your own organizations to monitor political speech at mainstream/minority churches.

One can use religious speech in political ways. I say that should be allowed but grounds for taking away a tax deduction.

Its not trying to silence a church to demand that they not use tax free dollars to engage in politically motivated speech (regardless of whether or not a Jesus is thrown in the speech somewhere). They have the right to say whatever they want and advocate whatever they want. They have zero Constitutional rights to a tax deduction while doing so.
08-02-2014 04:13 PM
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