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Interesting article on university financing - future implications?
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Interesting article on university financing - future implications?
(07-31-2014 09:28 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-31-2014 08:37 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  
(07-31-2014 04:53 PM)FuzzyHasek Wrote:  
(07-31-2014 03:26 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  The true paradigm shift in higher education is still to come. Look out over the horizon and see the numbers of students enrolling at for profit and on-line schools. Years ago traditional colleges scoffed at these alternative institutions. Now that they have become accepted in the main stream, brick and mortar institutions are scrambling to get a piece of the expanding market.

Enrolling yes, graduating not so much

What I've noticed lately is that a good percentage of traditional colleges are reporting graduation rates based on SIX year cycles. Six years to get a four year degree and still you would be shocked to see how low the graduation rates are for some schools.

"Six years to get a four year degree" because even public universities cost a helluva lot more than they did "back in the day" and students have to work more part-time hours, or take a couple of semesters off to work full-time and make more money, etc. And, "back in the day", more students could rely on more help from their parents, but today fewer parents are working at full-time jobs with good salaries and many of them are working part-time or trying to make ends meet with multiple jobs.

No doubt. You have HS courses that are of poorer overall quality today than they were decades ago, you have universities having to create remedial courses that add semesters to students time there because they are ignorant of the minimum requirements and you have less means to pay today than you did decades ago due to skyrocketing costs and lower real wage growth as you pointed out.
07-31-2014 09:57 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Interesting article on university financing - future implications?
(07-31-2014 09:54 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(07-31-2014 09:42 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Call me cynical but if 2 years of CC becomes more the norm, then I wouldn't be surprised to see Accreditation Boards becoming much more "strict" in their judgements in order to protect the higher Universities from such a trend.

Ease of transfer of credits is the "problem" according to some. That isn't my view of course, that is just me stepping into the shoes of some folks that would see this trend as very threatening and yes, they have the ability to apply pressure and leverage.

Which lever is larger - the 4 year degree granting universities that are charging a premium for low level courses or the groups feeling the strain of swelling debt that may become our next popping bubble? IMHO, the 4 year degree granting institutions will embrace this growing trend and will try to figure out how to work with the CC's to minimize the damage to themselves. The market will sort it out, and the Feds/State gov'ts will push for greater ease of credit transfers. There is simply too much at stake with the student loan debt situation. People don't want to see another financial crisis.

Nah, the accreditation would still get more strict but what would happen is that indirectly the value of accreditation would be lowered as, as you say, the amount of people who would revert back fully to a 4 University experience instead of a 2+2. There would be some "Mid Tier" Universities that really have nothing to lose and would accept in those credits anyways, thus putting egg in the face of the accreditation boards. 07-coffee3


I am not talking about a full out loss of accreditation. It is about slow and gradual movement. A class here and a class there losing accreditation thus forcing those students to change just a class or two from being at their CC to their future University instead.

These changes will seem small enough to handle by these individuals but the impact upon these Universities will by no means be small.

These things happen in small steps, not gigantic leaps. That is how the sheep are led to slaughter. One pasture at a time.
07-31-2014 10:00 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Interesting article on university financing - future implications?
(07-31-2014 09:57 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(07-31-2014 09:28 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-31-2014 08:37 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  
(07-31-2014 04:53 PM)FuzzyHasek Wrote:  
(07-31-2014 03:26 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  The true paradigm shift in higher education is still to come. Look out over the horizon and see the numbers of students enrolling at for profit and on-line schools. Years ago traditional colleges scoffed at these alternative institutions. Now that they have become accepted in the main stream, brick and mortar institutions are scrambling to get a piece of the expanding market.

Enrolling yes, graduating not so much

What I've noticed lately is that a good percentage of traditional colleges are reporting graduation rates based on SIX year cycles. Six years to get a four year degree and still you would be shocked to see how low the graduation rates are for some schools.

"Six years to get a four year degree" because even public universities cost a helluva lot more than they did "back in the day" and students have to work more part-time hours, or take a couple of semesters off to work full-time and make more money, etc. And, "back in the day", more students could rely on more help from their parents, but today fewer parents are working at full-time jobs with good salaries and many of them are working part-time or trying to make ends meet with multiple jobs.

No doubt. You have HS courses that are of poorer overall quality today than they were decades ago, you have universities having to create remedial courses that add semesters to students time there because they are ignorant of the minimum requirements and you have less means to pay today than you did decades ago due to skyrocketing costs and lower real wage growth as you pointed out.

I don't think it's the students who can't complete a four-year track in four years. That's on the institution.

At Penn State, there's an English class that's a core component of every curriculum, focussing on report writing, resumes, formal letters, etc., and it (used to at least) appear on most curriculums within the first three semesters. Only, PSU didn't offer as many sections for it. So most students couldn't take it when it was suggested, causing some gridlock. Add to it sequential courses requiring other prerequisites and courses that only ran during certain semesters, and it was nuts. THAT's when students ran into the financial issues, especially with aid, that forced students to either go the full-time route and take extraneous courses, or take the bare minimum of full time load when curriculums expected 15-18 credits for timely completion, or go down the dark path of private loans and part-time it until you could wing it full-time or adjust yourself to the curriculum as offered.

Core classes make money at any institution. That's been some of the hold up in the transferability between two- and certain four-year schools. "Our macroeconomics class is better than yours!" Even in the face of accreditation, which lines up learning outcomes and assessment, pretty much saying "yours is as good as theirs," certain schools wouldn't budge. Personally, it's not the CC's who should worry. Based on their mission and purpose, they can suffer from really bad graduation or completion rates. They're cheap, they're not four-year degrees in a society that demands them more now, and they go down the route of certifications and other professional development-minded offerings that, essentially, make them the educational "good guy," even if they have their own problems (quality faculty recruitment and retention coming immediately to mind). CC's needn't worry, as long as four-year schools don't get back in on the two-year degree business. The ones in trouble are the small, non-traditional public and private colleges and system institutions.
08-01-2014 06:52 AM
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