Given your historical knowledge of the ACC, Southern Conference and SAIAA, I figure you could answer this question for me (and the board, too)

1) Despite sharing a border, what is preventing North Carolina (and to a degree, NC State) from playing Tennessee in football.

..and..

2) Despite sharing a border, what is preventing North Carolina (and to a degree, NC State) from playing Georgia in football.

Thanks in advance, sir.

(07-23-2014 11:07 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Given your historical knowledge of the ACC, Southern Conference and SAIAA, I figure you could answer this question for me (and the board, too)

1) Despite sharing a border, what is preventing North Carolina (and to a degree, NC State) from playing Tennessee in football.

..and..

2) Despite sharing a border, what is preventing North Carolina (and to a degree, NC State) from playing Georgia in football.

Thanks in advance, sir.

Not sure about GA, but UNC had a deal to play Tenn, but they cancelled it.

(07-23-2014 12:26 PM)samandrea Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 11:07 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Given your historical knowledge of the ACC, Southern Conference and SAIAA, I figure you could answer this question for me (and the board, too)

1) Despite sharing a border, what is preventing North Carolina (and to a degree, NC State) from playing Tennessee in football.

..and..

2) Despite sharing a border, what is preventing North Carolina (and to a degree, NC State) from playing Georgia in football.

Thanks in advance, sir.

Not sure about GA, but UNC had a deal to play Tenn, but they cancelled it.

I'll hazard a couple of guesses. All schools these days mostly schedule weak non-conference games except for one or two marquee games a season. As marquee games UNC-Tenn or UNC-Ga may not have enough sizzle to be attractive to either school. Also, even though there's a shared state border, geographically there is a substantial distance between UNC and these other schools. UNC may be closer to Pitt than U.Tenn.

(07-23-2014 12:42 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 12:26 PM)samandrea Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 11:07 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Given your historical knowledge of the ACC, Southern Conference and SAIAA, I figure you could answer this question for me (and the board, too)

1) Despite sharing a border, what is preventing North Carolina (and to a degree, NC State) from playing Tennessee in football.

..and..

2) Despite sharing a border, what is preventing North Carolina (and to a degree, NC State) from playing Georgia in football.

Thanks in advance, sir.

Not sure about GA, but UNC had a deal to play Tenn, but they cancelled it.

I'll hazard a couple of guesses. All schools these days mostly schedule weak non-conference games except for one or two marquee games a season. As marquee games UNC-Tenn or UNC-Ga may not have enough sizzle to be attractive to either school. Also, even though there's a shared state border, geographically there is a substantial distance between UNC and these other schools. UNC may be closer to Pitt than U.Tenn.

We don't share a board for all practical purposes.

Once you get past Morganton, NC, you go into the land of UNC, Clemson, UGa, and UT. Once you pass Asheville headed west, you are in Clemson, UGa, and UT territory. It's a very long distance to travel. UNC does not want to play UT in football for fear of losing status west of Morganton. Tennessee does not want to play NC State for fear of losing status in NC.

Moreover if you look at the size Neyland, they can make a hell of lot more money by playing Western Carolina or Podunk state U instead of traveling to Chapel Hill or Raleigh and not being able to get tickets because Kenan and Carter-Finley are really not large enough to accommodate their traveling crowd due to the high demand they would create at UNC or State.

NC State has played Georgia a number of times over the years, but they only want to play us there, not here. You can understand why.

NC State is about 12-15K seats short of being able to offer real capacity to a good traveling team - we would need 72-75K seats to do that. We could use 65K now for ECU, Clemson, UNC, and VT but we only have 59K.

I also forgot - NC State did not have a legitimate football stadium until 1966. Before then we played in Riddick Field - a tiny dump - so small that we played UNC and Duke in Chapel Hill, Durham, or at the State Fairgrounds instead of home. NC State didn't even offer real football scholarships until the 1950's - although we had perhaps the best SAIAA program in the aughts and teens, NC State never fully recovered from WWI when the Army set up camp at NC State and then stole everything when they left (no **** - they stripped the buildings bare as if they owned them). (Carolina learned from our experience and prevented the Navy from striping UNC after WWII)

After WWII State rebounded, but Duke had been the State of NC's real athletic power from WWI to the 1950's in both sports.

If an SEC team or Big 6, or SWC conference team wanted to come east, it was easier for them to get to Durham and they would have a place to sit in Chapel Hill or Durham.

On a side note, Florida and UGa football was average for much of the early history of the SEC - relatively speaking. UGa came out of it's shell when the Atlanta Falcons came to Atlanta and knocked GT off the top football perch. UGa in particular did not need to recruit NC for talent and if we share a board, it's really only something you see on a map or if you go whitewater rafting in far western NC.

Remember it's 5 hours from Raleigh to Asheville, and it's three more hours to the TN/GA boarder. They watch TV from Spartanburg SC, and Knoxville in addition to Asheville and Charlotte. It's just a whole 'nother world.

I don't have any specific knowledge of the schools you mentioned but they are the type of schools that are often looking for home games or two-for-ones.

(07-23-2014 12:42 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 12:26 PM)samandrea Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 11:07 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Given your historical knowledge of the ACC, Southern Conference and SAIAA, I figure you could answer this question for me (and the board, too)

1) Despite sharing a border, what is preventing North Carolina (and to a degree, NC State) from playing Tennessee in football.

..and..

2) Despite sharing a border, what is preventing North Carolina (and to a degree, NC State) from playing Georgia in football.

Thanks in advance, sir.

Not sure about GA, but UNC had a deal to play Tenn, but they cancelled it.

I'll hazard a couple of guesses. All schools these days mostly schedule weak non-conference games except for one or two marquee games a season. As marquee games UNC-Tenn or UNC-Ga may not have enough sizzle to be attractive to either school. Also, even though there's a shared state border, geographically there is a substantial distance between UNC and these other schools. UNC may be closer to Pitt than U.Tenn.

Chapel Hill is 477 miles from Pittsburgh, and 334 miles from Knoxville, however until Interstate 40 was opened through the Great Smokies the trip to Knoxville was pure hell - you either went around Soco Mountain - a two lane pigpath west of Waynesville or you went to Atlanta and came back up via Chattanooga. This is one of the reasons the conference split - the Appalachians in late fall, winter, early spring.

Getting to Blacksburg was tough until the Appalachian Regional Commission put 20 years of highway construction into the New River Valley.

Back in the day to get to Blacksburg, you would need to take NC 8, US 21, or 15/501 into Va, then find a way up the Blue Ridge that had not iced over if you took a bus instead of the train. Even if you took the train to Roanoke, the road to Blacksburg was itself a pig-path once you got off old US 11.

(07-23-2014 07:03 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  I don't have any specific knowledge of the schools you mentioned but they are the type of schools that are often looking for home games or two-for-ones.

NC State played games like that until 1979. The last was a two game series at Auburn. After that date we don't do that anymore.

From 1952 to 1979 we played un-returned games at Texas Tech, Pitt -2, UGA - 3, UCLA - 2, Arizona State - 2, Bama, Nebraska -2 Auburn - 2, Iowa Michigan State and Oklahoma. We played Penn State for 15 years 2 for 1.

This is what a small stadium and not a lot of investment does for a program. Also the ACC de-emphasized football in 1962 with Duke's 800 SAT rule. That was a factor hampering ACC schools until the late 1970's.

After approx 30 game history with both Georgia and Tennessee Carolina stopped playing Georgia in 1966 and Tennessee in 1961.
Since that time Carolina has had short series play with Florida, Auburn, LSU, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, and 'lil carolina (after they joined the SEC).

(07-23-2014 06:54 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  I also forgot - NC State did not have a legitimate football stadium until 1966. Before then we played in Riddick Field - a tiny dump - so small that we played UNC and Duke in Chapel Hill, Durham, or at the State Fairgrounds instead of home. NC State didn't even offer real football scholarships until the 1950's - although we had perhaps the best SAIAA program in the aughts and teens, NC State never fully recovered from WWI when the Army set up camp at NC State and then stole everything when they left (no **** - they stripped the buildings bare as if they owned them). (Carolina learned from our experience and prevented the Navy from striping UNC after WWII)

After WWII State rebounded, but Duke had been the State of NC's real athletic power from WWI to the 1950's in both sports.

If an SEC team or Big 6, or SWC conference team wanted to come east, it was easier for them to get to Durham and they would have a place to sit in Chapel Hill or Durham.

On a side note, Florida and UGa football was average for much of the early history of the SEC - relatively speaking. UGa came out of it's shell when the Atlanta Falcons came to Atlanta and knocked GT off the top football perch. UGa in particular did not need to recruit NC for talent and if we share a board, it's really only something you see on a map or if you go whitewater rafting in far western NC.

Remember it's 5 hours from Raleigh to Asheville, and it's three more hours to the TN/GA boarder. They watch TV from Spartanburg SC, and Knoxville in addition to Asheville and Charlotte. It's just a whole 'nother world.

Many thanks, sir.

(07-23-2014 06:54 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  I also forgot - NC State did not have a legitimate football stadium until 1966. Before then we played in Riddick Field - a tiny dump - so small that we played UNC and Duke in Chapel Hill, Durham, or at the State Fairgrounds instead of home. NC State didn't even offer real football scholarships until the 1950's - although we had perhaps the best SAIAA program in the aughts and teens, NC State never fully recovered from WWI when the Army set up camp at NC State and then stole everything when they left (no **** - they stripped the buildings bare as if they owned them). (Carolina learned from our experience and prevented the Navy from striping UNC after WWII)

After WWII State rebounded, but Duke had been the State of NC's real athletic power from WWI to the 1950's in both sports.

If an SEC team or Big 6, or SWC conference team wanted to come east, it was easier for them to get to Durham and they would have a place to sit in Chapel Hill or Durham.

On a side note, Florida and UGa football was average for much of the early history of the SEC - relatively speaking. UGa came out of it's shell when the Atlanta Falcons came to Atlanta and knocked GT off the top football perch. UGa in particular did not need to recruit NC for talent and if we share a board, it's really only something you see on a map or if you go whitewater rafting in far western NC.

Remember it's 5 hours from Raleigh to Asheville, and it's three more hours to the TN/GA boarder. They watch TV from Spartanburg SC, and Knoxville in addition to Asheville and Charlotte. It's just a whole 'nother world.

How slow are you driving...? I can get there in 4 :)

(07-24-2014 09:56 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 06:54 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  I also forgot - NC State did not have a legitimate football stadium until 1966. Before then we played in Riddick Field - a tiny dump - so small that we played UNC and Duke in Chapel Hill, Durham, or at the State Fairgrounds instead of home. NC State didn't even offer real football scholarships until the 1950's - although we had perhaps the best SAIAA program in the aughts and teens, NC State never fully recovered from WWI when the Army set up camp at NC State and then stole everything when they left (no **** - they stripped the buildings bare as if they owned them). (Carolina learned from our experience and prevented the Navy from striping UNC after WWII)

After WWII State rebounded, but Duke had been the State of NC's real athletic power from WWI to the 1950's in both sports.

If an SEC team or Big 6, or SWC conference team wanted to come east, it was easier for them to get to Durham and they would have a place to sit in Chapel Hill or Durham.

On a side note, Florida and UGa football was average for much of the early history of the SEC - relatively speaking. UGa came out of it's shell when the Atlanta Falcons came to Atlanta and knocked GT off the top football perch. UGa in particular did not need to recruit NC for talent and if we share a board, it's really only something you see on a map or if you go whitewater rafting in far western NC.

Remember it's 5 hours from Raleigh to Asheville, and it's three more hours to the TN/GA boarder. They watch TV from Spartanburg SC, and Knoxville in addition to Asheville and Charlotte. It's just a whole 'nother world.

How slow are you driving...? I can get there in 4 :)

You have to account for stopping in Kernersville or Lexington for REAL barbeque