It would be easier if we follow the P5's lead and divide equal members of the same league into perceived groups of Haves and Have Nots, like they did with us in normalizing the labels P5 and G5. Let's take it a step further and divide the G5 into the H2 and L3- the Holiest of the Holy 2, and the Little Sisters of the Poor 3. That's what will fix an already corrupt league- more segregation.

(07-23-2014 02:36 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  It would be easier if we follow the P5's lead and divide equal members of the same league into perceived groups of Haves and Have Nots, like they did with us in normalizing the labels P5 and G5. Let's take it a step further and divide the G5 into the H2 and L3- the Holiest of the Holy 2, and the Little Sisters of the Poor 3. That's what will fix an already corrupt league- more segregation.

Texas already makes 160+ million in athletic revenue and IIRC that is 10 or 15 million more than the #2 school. They have their own network to which ESPN is married and invested in its survival. They could go independent today and they'd have a deal in place greater than Notre Dame before dawn tomorrow. There will always be a place for the rest of UTs sports, the question is, is it a good enough place for them to accept. I think the ACC would be a lock for their other sports given the precedent set by Notre Dame, but the Big12 could keep them on just as easily if they were not too scorned by the football departure. I would not be surprised in the least if they cut bait.

And if we really want to go full on off-season rambling it could be the beginning of the super powers going indy, dis-associating (legally anyway) from the university and creating a semi-pro league. Just drop the "university" and there you have it:

Texas Longhorns
Alabama Crimson Tide
The Fighting Irish
Louisiana Tigers
Oklahoma Sooners
Wisconsin Badgers
Michigan Wolverines
The Ohio Buckeyes
Florida Gators

Etc etc. Anyone with the cash and the brass to make that jump is a true power.

(07-23-2014 02:36 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  It would be easier if we follow the P5's lead and divide equal members of the same league into perceived groups of Haves and Have Nots, like they did with us in normalizing the labels P5 and G5. Let's take it a step further and divide the G5 into the H2 and L3- the Holiest of the Holy 2, and the Little Sisters of the Poor 3. That's what will fix an already corrupt league- more segregation.

we dont make the rules we just want to succeed within the set of rules given..and segregation is the answer

the Mac would be perceived way worse without the fcs/fbs line as alot of fcs team have more resources than alot of mac schools (as shown by how a lot these fcs call ups have already jumped most of the Mac schools in perception)..so lets not act like the MAC isn't already benefiting from the system. all we are saying is 1 more line between the aac and the rest of the g5 or the aac & mwc and the rest of the g5 would be much appreciated..

if Ohio U was in the AAC youd 100% agree with us.. imagine if the P5 split into division 4, and we had to create a new structure wit the rest of divsion 1, youd honestly want some kind of divide between the g5 and the fcs in whatever system was created. because if not over an extended amount of period everything evens out and the swac (the worst divsion 1 conference) aswell as all 200+ fcs schools, will be taking recruits away from the MAC, fans away from the mac, national interest away from the mac, tv money away from the MAC and we'd all be viewed as equals etc..

Doesn't the FBS already have attendance requirements?...that aren't enforced...

I had heard that the FBS requirement was to average 15K per home game over a rolling two year period. Anyone have a link or additional information?

For starters, I would like to see the attendance rule strictly enforced. That would trim some fat immediately.

Eastern Michigan (3,987 avg) -seriously, how do they even have an FBS-level program?
UAB (12,909 avg)
UMass (13,361 avg)
Akron (13,562 avg)
San Jose St. (13,575 avg)
Idaho (13,663 avg)
Florida Atlantic (13,990 avg)
Ball St. (14,030)
FIU (14,534)
Central Michigan (14,640 avg)

That's an entire conference worth of teams right there that don't currently make, what I though was, the cut.

If you bumped up the requirement to 16K, here is more fat to trim:

Buffalo
New Mexico St.
Western Michigan
Bowling Green
Miami (OH)
South Alabama
Georgia St.

That's 17 teams, mostly from the MAC and Sun Belt/C-USA 3.0 that would not qualify. (I would have suggested to bump up the requirement to 20K to basically remove the MAC and Sun Belt conferences completely, but that would have led to collateral damage, with Tulane, Tulsa, and SMU also axed).

Perhaps the below 16K teams could have the option to join the FCS ranks or a subset of the FBS division - Tier II. You might even get some schools that opt for FBS Tier II. The FBS Tier II schools could form conferences and play in bowl games, etc., but the FBS Tier I schools could only count one victory against this division OR the FCS ranks toward bowl eligibility. Reducing the number of FBS Tier I teams, by itself, would heighten the competition and help to even the playing field. P5 teams would be forced to play each other more and travel more, because there would be fewer FBS Tier II/FCS alternatives. That would be a really good thing for college football.

The FBS Tier II could play as many FBS Tier I opponents as they can schedule and could count one victory over the FCS ranks toward bowl eligibility. The FBS Tier II could even organize its own playoff and turn into something exciting.

http://www.themw.com/#!/watch-live#4865

State of the Conference address by Commissioner Thompson: start at about the 19:30 mark. He states that the MWC will likely permit schools to individually decide whether to adopt new P5 legislation.

ynot, tulane will easily be doing 20k with the on-campus, smu can do 40k when they are winning but have a huge fair-weather fanbase, mix that with the fact that the true fans/alumi have quit on june ... june will either start winning and the bandwagon will get on (a la oleary) or he'll get fired and that will re invigorate the fan base. either way they get back to 20k in 2 years.

i don't know what to tell you about tulsa

and about the requirements they were loosened a few years ago, the 15k thing was lower, and teams way below that are given a long probationary periods to fix it

(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  we dont make the rules we just want to succeed within the set of rules given..and segregation is the answer

You sound like Gov Wallace.

(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  the Mac would be perceived way worse without the fcs/fbs line as alot of fcs team have more resources than alot of mac schools (as shown by how a lot these fcs call ups have already jumped most of the Mac schools in perception)..so lets not act like the MAC isn't already benefiting from the system.

This is so silly its comical. Please, enlighten us with all of these FCS schools that have more resources and have jumped the MAC in perception. Which conference had the #5 overall draft pick this year and the #1 overall last year? Was that the Colonial or the Big Sky? If you're going to use hyperbole to make a point try to make it be at least somewhat believable.

(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  all we are saying is 1 more line between the aac and the rest of the g5 or the aac & mwc and the rest of the g5 would be much appreciated..

I'm sure it would be, but its a fantasy. The only gap that exists is the one between your ears.

(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  if Ohio U was in the AAC youd 100% agree with us..

Its Ohio, not Ohio U. Is it Houston U?

(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  imagine if the P5 split into division 4, and we had to create a new structure wit the rest of divsion 1, youd honestly want some kind of divide between the g5 and the fcs in whatever system was created. because if not over an extended amount of period everything evens out and the swac (the worst divsion 1 conference) aswell as all 200+ fcs schools, will be taking recruits away from the MAC, fans away from the mac, national interest away from the mac, tv money away from the MAC and we'd all be viewed as equals etc..

The gap between FBS and FCS already exists. There are real, concrete differences in scholarships, funding, etc. its real. The gap between the P5 and G5 exists only to divert revenue to half of the league at the expense of the other half. This creates a permanent financial disparity that the Haves use to pad their win totals and create a false sense of superiority. I want the corruption to end, you want it to continue but in a way where you are benefiting from it. That's where we differ.

(07-23-2014 04:31 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  I want the corruption to end, you want it to continue but in a way where you are benefiting from it. That's where we differ.

Everyone in college football seems to want to find someone else in college football to screw over so they can feel superior.

Which is why so many are screwed over.

(07-23-2014 04:31 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  if Ohio U was in the AAC youd 100% agree with us..

Its Ohio, not Ohio U. Is it Houston U?

The name of the school is Ohio University, compared to The University of Houston. Houston is often called UofH or UH, this makes it understandable to call it Ohio U if someone wants. Don't try and be smug. And just for sh*ts and giggles, type in Ohio U on google, and what comes up: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/...-case.html

But on a more important topic, the first thing I thought of when I watched that press conference was just how superior the MW's branding is to ours. And the AAC logo really has grown on me, but man they have a cool logo and colors.

(07-23-2014 04:31 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  we dont make the rules we just want to succeed within the set of rules given..and segregation is the answer

You sound like Gov Wallace.

(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  the Mac would be perceived way worse without the fcs/fbs line as alot of fcs team have more resources than alot of mac schools (as shown by how a lot these fcs call ups have already jumped most of the Mac schools in perception)..so lets not act like the MAC isn't already benefiting from the system.

This is so silly its comical. Please, enlighten us with all of these FCS schools that have more resources and have jumped the MAC in perception. Which conference had the #5 overall draft pick this year and the #1 overall last year? Was that the Colonial or the Big Sky? If you're going to use hyperbole to make a point try to make it be at least somewhat believable.

(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  all we are saying is 1 more line between the aac and the rest of the g5 or the aac & mwc and the rest of the g5 would be much appreciated..

I'm sure it would be, but its a fantasy. The only gap that exists is the one between your ears.

(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  if Ohio U was in the AAC youd 100% agree with us..

Its Ohio, not Ohio U. Is it Houston U?

(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  imagine if the P5 split into division 4, and we had to create a new structure wit the rest of divsion 1, youd honestly want some kind of divide between the g5 and the fcs in whatever system was created. because if not over an extended amount of period everything evens out and the swac (the worst divsion 1 conference) aswell as all 200+ fcs schools, will be taking recruits away from the MAC, fans away from the mac, national interest away from the mac, tv money away from the MAC and we'd all be viewed as equals etc..

The gap between FBS and FCS already exists. There are real, concrete differences in scholarships, funding, etc. its real. The gap between the P5 and G5 exists only to divert revenue to half of the league at the expense of the other half. This creates a permanent financial disparity that the Haves use to pad their win totals and create a false sense of superiority. I want the corruption to end, you want it to continue but in a way where you are benefiting from it. That's where we differ.

UNT, UTSA, ODU, WKU are all perceived stronger than most of the teams in the mac as athletic programs on and off the field despite being in the fbs only a few years now (i said most not all), if you dont see it you are blinded by your homerism..and id be down to say Charlotte, Appalachian state and south alabama will do the same in the next few years. draft picks have nothing to do with that

the aac, has dramatically more fans, dramatically larger budgets, dramatically higher average bcs ranks, dramatically out recruits the MAC.. NIU was the first ever MAC team to beat 2 big 10 in a year in almost 90 years of history. their is a huge gap between the MAC and the AAC..whats "between my ears" is reality..that is a FACT..if you cant see that a league where most of the teams struggle to get 20k attendance, none more than 25k is the same as a league where the average is 29k and numerous members over 35, their is no point in even having this conversation because your homerism is beyond having a real conversation.

and to your last point only once in your conference history has any team beaten a big 10 team more than once (and thats the conference you play the most) that includes the years before tv revenue came into play, before the ncaa revenue system came in to play. if you want to idiotically believe thier is no difference betwen the big 10 (p5) and the mac ( one g5 conference) you have no clue what you are talking about

the mac is 100x more closer to the FCS than the the P5.. the real corruption is not above the mac but below, their is no gap between the bottom of the g5 and the fcs and you better believe if free access was given 20-30 fcs would jump to the FBS but the only passage is if a G5 conference takes you. literally liberty university realizes they have little chance to get in regularly and offered the sunbelt a huge sum of money to be invited as they felt that was their only chance and were still turned down.

the ridiculousness of your arguemnt: the sunbelt (a G5 conference) filled with 80% recent fcs call ups is now on a whole nother than the fcs..

literally put the 7 teams i named above, add ndsu, ewu and Montana st and that conference top to bottom would be viewed way stronger than the MAC and all didnt exist or where in the fcs 4 years ago

dont get me wrong im not saying the AAC is on a p5 level, but we sure arent on a mac/sunblet/c-usa level. if you feel thats wrong, get the programs in the mac to step up, cause right now their is a disparity between the leagues

MAC's average attendance in the majority of their schools is the size of Dowdy Ficklen's student section. And one of your school's average football attendance would have many AAC teams in tears if it was their BASKETBALL attendance.

Go away dude. Your programs aren't on a level for you to be jibbah jabbahrin'

(07-23-2014 05:16 PM)PiratePanther189 Wrote:  MAC's average attendance in the majority of their schools is the size of Dowdy Ficklen's student section.

That's pretty funny to think about. @MACtion.

(07-23-2014 01:00 PM)DrBox Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 12:08 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  I'm starting to wonder if Aresco sees this and this is what hes banking on. Would definitely benefit us if several MWC decided they couldn't afford it. We could pick up the pieces.

I think it's one part of his plan, which is primarily to build and elevate the AAC as a conference. In contrast to, say, the way C-USA operated, he's not going to let any program "sit it out".

And what happens if a school's administration decides they'd rather "sit it out" than make the additional effort?

I don't want to see CUSA/Sunbelt/MAC etc cut off....these conferences have programs with rabid fans that want to see their teams play and do well just like all of us.

(07-23-2014 07:03 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I don't want to see CUSA/Sunbelt/MAC etc cut off....these conferences have programs with rabid fans that want to see their teams play and do well just like all of us.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

But that wasn't the question.

(07-23-2014 05:16 PM)PiratePanther189 Wrote:  MAC's average attendance in the majority of their schools is the size of Dowdy Ficklen's student section. And one of your school's average football attendance would have many AAC teams in tears if it was their BASKETBALL attendance.

Go away dude. Your programs aren't on a level for you to be jibbah jabbahrin'

24,256- Houston (but in their defense, Houston is a tiny college town)
22,473- Temple (Philly- another small college town)
19,893- Tulsa
19,747- Tulane
18,725- SMU (Dallas- a tiny village in the middle of nowhere)

a whole other level right there. Impressive.

(07-23-2014 07:30 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 05:16 PM)PiratePanther189 Wrote:  MAC's average attendance in the majority of their schools is the size of Dowdy Ficklen's student section. And one of your school's average football attendance would have many AAC teams in tears if it was their BASKETBALL attendance.

Go away dude. Your programs aren't on a level for you to be jibbah jabbahrin'

24,256- Houston (but in their defense, Houston is a tiny college town)
22,473- Temple (Philly- another small college town)
19,893- Tulsa
19,747- Tulane
18,725- SMU (Dallas- a tiny village in the middle of nowhere)

a whole other level right there. Impressive.

you realize houston was in an offcampus stadium last year (building new stadium) and didt have a home and played in random stadiums, one of which was a soccer stadium with a 22k limit? why dont you look up the numbers they actually have when they playin their OCS the previous 5 years before that
(hint it was 28k in 2012 and 32k the 4 years consecutively before that...ps 32k=sellout in our old stadium)

and yet temple on a 2 win season, did better than 80% of the MAC...you are clearly just helping my point

and something that you clearly dont understand is "small college towns" actually do dramatically better in attendance than big cities. you are trying to be sarcastic but obviously dont even know how the college system works

big cities= pro town= fair weather fans (because they have other options)
small cities= no competition = loyal fan base

i hope that is simple enough for you to get

here is miami when they lose
http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/NwY2gn...617525.jpg
http://www.cbssports.com/images/collegef...icrowd.jpg

here is miami when thy are winning
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...-09-24.JPG

look at every team with consistent major attendance, win or lose you will notice they are all in college towns, or major cities with no pro-teams

(07-23-2014 08:05 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 07:30 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 05:16 PM)PiratePanther189 Wrote:  MAC's average attendance in the majority of their schools is the size of Dowdy Ficklen's student section. And one of your school's average football attendance would have many AAC teams in tears if it was their BASKETBALL attendance.

Go away dude. Your programs aren't on a level for you to be jibbah jabbahrin'

24,256- Houston (but in their defense, Houston is a tiny college town)
22,473- Temple (Philly- another small college town)
19,893- Tulsa
19,747- Tulane
18,725- SMU (Dallas- a tiny village in the middle of nowhere)

a whole other level right there. Impressive.

you realize houston was in an offcampus stadium last year (building new stadium) and didt have a home and played in random stadiums, one of which was a soccer stadium with a 22k limit? why dont you look up the numbers they actually have when they playin their OCS the previous 5 years before that
(hint it was 28k in 2012 and 32k the 4 years consecutively before that...ps 32k=sellout in our old stadium)

and yet temple on a 2 win season, did better than 80% of the MAC...you are clearly just helping my point

and something that you clearly you dont understand is "small college towns" actually do dramatically better in attendance that big cities. you are trying to be sarcastic but obviously dont even know how the college system works

big cities= pro town= fair weather fans (because they have other options)
small cities= no competition = loyal fan base

i hope that is simple enough for you to get

here is miami when they lose
http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/NwY2gn...617525.jpg
http://www.cbssports.com/images/collegef...icrowd.jpg

here is miami when thy are winning
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...-09-24.JPG

look at every team with consistent major attendance, win or lose you will notice they are all in college towns, or major cities with no pro-teams

the "miami when they are losing" pic....bet they reported 45K that game LOL

(07-23-2014 07:01 PM)CajunFanatico Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 01:00 PM)DrBox Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 12:08 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  I'm starting to wonder if Aresco sees this and this is what hes banking on. Would definitely benefit us if several MWC decided they couldn't afford it. We could pick up the pieces.

I think it's one part of his plan, which is primarily to build and elevate the AAC as a conference. In contrast to, say, the way C-USA operated, he's not going to let any program "sit it out".

And what happens if a school's administration decides they'd rather "sit it out" than make the additional effort?

No idea, but none are.