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In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
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EagleRockCafe Offline
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Post: #1
In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
Just saw them talking about this article on Fox. People need to use their brains when buying cars like this. I know they are vulnerable, but this is crazy....

Quote:The New York Times examined more than 100 bankruptcy court cases, dozens of civil lawsuits against lenders and hundreds of loan documents and found that subprime auto loans can come with interest rates that can exceed 23 percent. The loans were typically at least twice the size of the value of the used cars purchased, including dozens of battered vehicles with mechanical defects hidden from borrowers. Such loans can thrust already vulnerable borrowers further into debt, even propelling some into bankruptcy, according to the court records, as well as interviews with borrowers and lawyers in 19 states.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/i...igh-rates/
07-21-2014 10:55 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
I've long supported tougher usury laws, on the state level, as well as a Federal statute.

The cards are stacked against the poor in a big way.
07-21-2014 10:59 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
(07-21-2014 10:59 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I've long supported tougher usury laws, on the state level, as well as a Federal statute.

The cards are stacked against the poor in a big way.

Is this any different that pay-day loan places?
07-21-2014 11:07 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
(07-21-2014 11:07 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 10:59 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I've long supported tougher usury laws, on the state level, as well as a Federal statute.

The cards are stacked against the poor in a big way.

Is this any different that pay-day loan places?

I don't think so. I think those places are downright criminal.

So far, we've done a good job of averting a European style petty loan crisis, with 3800% interest rates.
07-21-2014 11:09 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
(07-21-2014 11:09 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 11:07 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 10:59 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I've long supported tougher usury laws, on the state level, as well as a Federal statute.

The cards are stacked against the poor in a big way.

Is this any different that pay-day loan places?

I don't think so. I think those places are downright criminal.

So far, we've done a good job of averting a European style petty loan crisis, with 3800% interest rates.

I don't like them either, but I don't want to go so far and try to legislate against people's own stupidity. Which is what tougher usury laws would be akin to doing.
07-21-2014 12:29 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
(07-21-2014 12:29 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 11:09 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 11:07 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 10:59 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I've long supported tougher usury laws, on the state level, as well as a Federal statute.

The cards are stacked against the poor in a big way.

Is this any different that pay-day loan places?

I don't think so. I think those places are downright criminal.

So far, we've done a good job of averting a European style petty loan crisis, with 3800% interest rates.

I don't like them either, but I don't want to go so far and try to legislate against people's own stupidity. Which is what tougher usury laws would be akin to doing.

We had to use one once. We borrowed $400 and paid somewhere around $500 3 days later. Didn't like it, but we were much younger and had to spend a bunch of money that month on some emergencies and it kept us from being late on mortgage. Hope to never have to do it again.
07-21-2014 12:34 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
(07-21-2014 12:29 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 11:09 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 11:07 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 10:59 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I've long supported tougher usury laws, on the state level, as well as a Federal statute.

The cards are stacked against the poor in a big way.

Is this any different that pay-day loan places?

I don't think so. I think those places are downright criminal.

So far, we've done a good job of averting a European style petty loan crisis, with 3800% interest rates.

I don't like them either, but I don't want to go so far and try to legislate against people's own stupidity. Which is what tougher usury laws would be akin to doing.

I don't see it as legislating against stupidity as much as I do legislating against criminality and victimization.
07-21-2014 12:40 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
(07-21-2014 12:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 12:29 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 11:09 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 11:07 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 10:59 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I've long supported tougher usury laws, on the state level, as well as a Federal statute.

The cards are stacked against the poor in a big way.

Is this any different that pay-day loan places?

I don't think so. I think those places are downright criminal.

So far, we've done a good job of averting a European style petty loan crisis, with 3800% interest rates.

I don't like them either, but I don't want to go so far and try to legislate against people's own stupidity. Which is what tougher usury laws would be akin to doing.

I don't see it as legislating against stupidity as much as I do legislating against criminality and victimization.

Exactly, it's the deceptive advertising and predatory practices that's the issue.
07-21-2014 12:53 PM
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GrayBeard Offline
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Post: #9
RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
Hmmm...anyone remember "Cash for Clunkers"? It sure would be nice for the poor to have access to low priced used cars these days, wouldn't it.
07-21-2014 12:56 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #10
RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
Sometimes these people don't have a choice like some of us do. They need wheels and if going into a ridiculous debt is the only option you take it. It should be against the law for these dealerships to steal from poor people like this,

But, what do we expect they are car dealerships the epitome of thievery and unscrupulousness.
07-21-2014 01:09 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
(07-21-2014 12:53 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 12:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 12:29 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 11:09 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 11:07 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Is this any different that pay-day loan places?

I don't think so. I think those places are downright criminal.

So far, we've done a good job of averting a European style petty loan crisis, with 3800% interest rates.

I don't like them either, but I don't want to go so far and try to legislate against people's own stupidity. Which is what tougher usury laws would be akin to doing.

I don't see it as legislating against stupidity as much as I do legislating against criminality and victimization.

Exactly, it's the deceptive advertising and predatory practices that's the issue.

As these type of loans are the bane of the DOD, when I was in there was a concerted effort to try and steer people clear of these places. I gave lectures to sailors on the death spiral pay day loan trap you in, but invariably I'd have to come up with a plan to try and get to my sailors out from up under such loans. While I understand that some people might encounter dire emergencies with no recourse, many simply of those hoodwinked by these places simply had a reach that exceeded their grasp.
07-21-2014 01:18 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #12
RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
They have a place like this around here called Car Hop. You see cars all the time with the Car Hop temporary license plate, mostly on old rusty SUVs. I always wonder what drove that person to take out a loan on a 1998 Ford Explorer with bad shocks...
07-21-2014 01:51 PM
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Smaug Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
Taking advantage of the stupid and the desperate. Immoral, at the very least.
07-21-2014 02:52 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
What kind of margins do those places get? They may charge huge interest but how often does the borrower default?

I've never used one and don't know much about those, but I used to know somebody that did something similar, loaning money to people that really shouldn't have been getting a loan. I'm surprised so many of the capitalists on here would be against high interest rates.
07-21-2014 02:57 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
Don't be stupid, niu, it's not a matter of interest rates it's a matter of morality. There's a verse for that in the Bible if you want I'll show you. It's under usury in your Concordance.
07-21-2014 03:00 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
(07-21-2014 03:00 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Don't be stupid, niu, it's not a matter of interest rates it's a matter of morality. There's a verse for that in the Bible if you want I'll show you. It's under usury in your Concordance.

Since when are businesses moral? For example, since when are most commercials not purposely meant to deceive?
07-21-2014 03:21 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
Business can be very moral. I'm not a fan of modern corporations because they do their best to skirt morality but business is not necessarily immoral.
07-21-2014 03:34 PM
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Smaug Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
(07-21-2014 03:21 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 03:00 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Don't be stupid, niu, it's not a matter of interest rates it's a matter of morality. There's a verse for that in the Bible if you want I'll show you. It's under usury in your Concordance.

Since when are businesses moral? For example, since when are most commercials not purposely meant to deceive?

There are more businesses giving you full measure of value for your dollar than you can count.

These sleazy bastards are not among them.
07-21-2014 03:36 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
Niu, I never said that businesses were moral, did I? I said that usury is immoral. There may be some that are run with moral precepts but they are far and few between.

One business that I can count as moral is, trumpets please, Wal Mart. They have a huge amount of policies that actually help put food on your table. Their return policy is also one of the best. They have a policy of hiring veterans first too. Unfortunately, they are hated by both cons and libs. They are an equal opportunity victim, LOL.
07-21-2014 03:55 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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RE: In a Subprime Bubble for Used Cars, Borrowers Pay Sky-High Rates
(07-21-2014 03:36 PM)Smaug Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 03:21 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(07-21-2014 03:00 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Don't be stupid, niu, it's not a matter of interest rates it's a matter of morality. There's a verse for that in the Bible if you want I'll show you. It's under usury in your Concordance.

Since when are businesses moral? For example, since when are most commercials not purposely meant to deceive?

There are more businesses giving you full measure of value for your dollar than you can count.

These sleazy bastards are not among them.

They're like people that start their own businesses. They're taking on high risk people, many of whom will not repay the loan. So they expect larger profits. Just sounds like typical capitalism to me. Being deceptive is not limited to these folks any more than the mortgage industry, or food industry, or auto industry. Lies. All lies. Caveat Emptor.
07-21-2014 03:56 PM
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