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Bearcats#1 Offline
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Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
I know Sanders, Guyn, and Thomas don't have huge numbers individually and a lot of us (me anyway) are focusing on the incoming group and getting excited about the Clarks, Cobbs, etc because most of us see point/rebounds/assists as a basis of player judgment and rightfully so, because you need points/rebounds/assists to win games but...

I wanted to call out that Sanders, Guyn, and Thomas are veterans, are winners, and know what it takes to win at this level. They have been part of three ncaa tourney teams and as Mick says, they have "sweat equity" in the program. This may not be something that is measured on paper, but I think these three guys are going to be more important to this team than we think...they are the leaders (along with Caupain) and are the ones to pass the torch of recent success on to the new crop.

To sum it up, I'm glad we have Guyn, Sanders, and Thomas, regardless of their stats career-to-date.

Here's to a great basketball season! Go Cats!
 
07-20-2014 09:06 AM
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Ring of Black Offline
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RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
No argument here #1. Great post 04-bow
 
07-20-2014 12:06 PM
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bearcat54 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
guyn doesn't move the ball very well as a point guard. I think Sanders and Thomas will be most needed to the team.
 
07-22-2014 05:17 PM
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Marcus Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
They have experience which is good and that should help this team some but they are all very limited in important aspects of their game.
Guyn is not an effective PG. He doesn't move the ball or distribute like a PG needs to. Sanders isn't very good on defense, looks very limited athletically to me and cant really handle the ball and Thomas while super athletic and usually solid on defense has really no offensive skill set or game to speak of.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-23-2014 06:45 AM by Marcus.)
07-23-2014 06:42 AM
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BeerCat Offline
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RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
C
(07-23-2014 06:42 AM)Marcus Wrote:  They have experience which is good and that should help this team some but they are all very limited in important aspects of their game.
Guyn is not an effective PG. He doesn't move the ball or distribute like a PG needs to. Sanders isn't very good on defense, looks very limited athletically to me and cant really handle the ball and Thomas while super athletic and usually solid on defense has really no offensive skill set or game to speak of.

Couldn't agree more. I actually hope their playing time dips and the ounces guys get a chance. I personally think its too late for those three to be "carry the team" type players. If we are depending on those three to win games we will be hurting big time.

Bearcats#1 will immediately call those who disagree non fans.
 
07-23-2014 10:25 AM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
Disagree on Shaq. He's only going to be a junior and has shown flashes of being really good. I still think he has the potential to make the leap to all conference caliber player.

I also think Sanders played better defense than he gets credit for. He certainly was not a liability on defense last year and made a couple big plays (including an end of game block). I still don't think Sanders offers much offensively other than being a good spot up shooter who can play the 3 and stretch 4.

Agree 100% on Guyn and really hope we don't force him to play PG this year. Team looked so much better with Caupain running the show last year.
 
07-23-2014 11:26 AM
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Marcus Offline
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RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
(07-23-2014 10:25 AM)BeerCat Wrote:  C
(07-23-2014 06:42 AM)Marcus Wrote:  They have experience which is good and that should help this team some but they are all very limited in important aspects of their game.
Guyn is not an effective PG. He doesn't move the ball or distribute like a PG needs to. Sanders isn't very good on defense, looks very limited athletically to me and cant really handle the ball and Thomas while super athletic and usually solid on defense has really no offensive skill set or game to speak of.

I actually hope their playing time dips and the ounces guys get a chance.

That's my hope as well. If not this team is in trouble IMO.
 
07-23-2014 12:25 PM
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Marcus Offline
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RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
(07-23-2014 11:26 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Disagree on Shaq. He's only going to be a junior and has shown flashes of being really good. I still think he has the potential to make the leap to all conference caliber player.

This will be Shaq's 4th year in the program though wont it? No doubt he's the best of the 3, but I would think by now he would have developed an offensive game if he was ever going to. It's frustrating to see with his athletic ability and explosiveness, but I just don't see the offensive skill set. I hope you are right and I'm wrong though.
 
07-23-2014 12:27 PM
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bcat80 Offline
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RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
(07-23-2014 06:42 AM)Marcus Wrote:  They have experience which is good and that should help this team some but they are all very limited in important aspects of their game.
Guyn is not an effective PG. He doesn't move the ball or distribute like a PG needs to. Sanders isn't very good on defense, looks very limited athletically to me and cant really handle the ball and Thomas while super athletic and usually solid on defense has really no offensive skill set or game to speak of.

Any or all three of these guys could be a pleasant surprise. A lot of people were worried about JJ's production going into his senior season but he worked his tail off in the summer and had a great year.
 
07-23-2014 12:29 PM
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BeerCat Offline
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RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
(07-23-2014 12:29 PM)bcat80 Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 06:42 AM)Marcus Wrote:  They have experience which is good and that should help this team some but they are all very limited in important aspects of their game.
Guyn is not an effective PG. He doesn't move the ball or distribute like a PG needs to. Sanders isn't very good on defense, looks very limited athletically to me and cant really handle the ball and Thomas while super athletic and usually solid on defense has really no offensive skill set or game to speak of.

Any or all three of these guys could be a pleasant surprise. A lot of people were worried about JJ's production going into his senior season but he worked his tail off in the summer and had a great year.

But wouldn't it have been nice if he would have progressed each summer like that instead of waiting until his senior year? That's what we need is some players that give several good yeas like that. And again I think a huge part of jj's jump in production was due to no one else being there as another option. We need guys that take minutes from others instead of just getting them by default.
 
07-23-2014 01:15 PM
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Marcus Offline
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RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
(07-23-2014 12:29 PM)bcat80 Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 06:42 AM)Marcus Wrote:  They have experience which is good and that should help this team some but they are all very limited in important aspects of their game.
Guyn is not an effective PG. He doesn't move the ball or distribute like a PG needs to. Sanders isn't very good on defense, looks very limited athletically to me and cant really handle the ball and Thomas while super athletic and usually solid on defense has really no offensive skill set or game to speak of.

Any or all three of these guys could be a pleasant surprise. A lot of people were worried about JJ's production going into his senior season but he worked his tail off in the summer and had a great year.

The problem with that is that "jump" from junior to senior year is not the norm for most players. It happens from time to time, but in most cases it doesn't.

As far as JJ goes he had to play, there was no legitimate competition for him at his position. He had a nice season early on but clearly faded out when it mattered most. He finished what was it... 5 for 25 from the foul line down the stretch, which absolutely cost them the conference tournament game against UCONN and the NCAA game against Harvard.
 
07-23-2014 01:24 PM
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RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
(07-23-2014 01:24 PM)Marcus Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 12:29 PM)bcat80 Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 06:42 AM)Marcus Wrote:  They have experience which is good and that should help this team some but they are all very limited in important aspects of their game.
Guyn is not an effective PG. He doesn't move the ball or distribute like a PG needs to. Sanders isn't very good on defense, looks very limited athletically to me and cant really handle the ball and Thomas while super athletic and usually solid on defense has really no offensive skill set or game to speak of.

Any or all three of these guys could be a pleasant surprise. A lot of people were worried about JJ's production going into his senior season but he worked his tail off in the summer and had a great year.

The problem with that is that "jump" from junior to senior year is not the norm for most players. It happens from time to time, but in most cases it doesn't.

As far as JJ goes he had to play, there was no legitimate competition for him at his position. He had a nice season early on but clearly faded out when it mattered most. He finished what was it... 5 for 25 from the foul line down the stretch, which absolutely cost them the conference tournament game against UCONN and the NCAA game against Harvard.

I know it's not the norm but I know every year we wonder in the offseason who will pick up the scoring/defense/etc. from graduating players and usually one or two players come through. I thought I read somewhere that Mick commented on how we'll be surprised on the progress over the summer of Sanders & Shaq (maybe that was just a dream 03-zzz).
 
07-23-2014 02:23 PM
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levydl Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
(07-23-2014 01:24 PM)Marcus Wrote:  As far as JJ goes he had to play, there was no legitimate competition for him at his position. He had a nice season early on but clearly faded out when it mattered most. He finished what was it... 5 for 25 from the foul line down the stretch, which absolutely cost them the conference tournament game against UCONN and the NCAA game against Harvard.

What are you talking about?

JJ went 0-2 on FTs against UConn, both coming at the end of the first half.

He went 3-6 against Harvard, making 1 of 2 in the middle of the first half, making an and-1 with 15 minutes left in the game, missing both with 10 minutes left in the second half with UC down 7, and making another and-1 with 7 minutes left to cut the Harvard lead to 2.

JJ's last 5 games:
13 points, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 steals, 3 assists against Memphis (W)
10 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists at Rutgers (W)
14 points, 8 rebounds, 4 blocks, 3 assists against UCF (W)
10 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 assists against UConn (L)
13 points, 11 rebounds, 4 blocks against Harvard (L)
 
07-23-2014 02:59 PM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
(07-23-2014 02:59 PM)levydl Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 01:24 PM)Marcus Wrote:  As far as JJ goes he had to play, there was no legitimate competition for him at his position. He had a nice season early on but clearly faded out when it mattered most. He finished what was it... 5 for 25 from the foul line down the stretch, which absolutely cost them the conference tournament game against UCONN and the NCAA game against Harvard.

What are you talking about?

JJ went 0-2 on FTs against UConn, both coming at the end of the first half.

He went 3-6 against Harvard, making 1 of 2 in the middle of the first half, making an and-1 with 15 minutes left in the game, missing both with 10 minutes left in the second half with UC down 7, and making another and-1 with 7 minutes left to cut the Harvard lead to 2.

JJ's last 5 games:
13 points, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 steals, 3 assists against Memphis (W)
10 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists at Rutgers (W)
14 points, 8 rebounds, 4 blocks, 3 assists against UCF (W)
10 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 assists against UConn (L)
13 points, 11 rebounds, 4 blocks against Harvard (L)

wow soooo was this all from memory?
 
07-23-2014 03:04 PM
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RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
(07-23-2014 02:59 PM)levydl Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 01:24 PM)Marcus Wrote:  As far as JJ goes he had to play, there was no legitimate competition for him at his position. He had a nice season early on but clearly faded out when it mattered most. He finished what was it... 5 for 25 from the foul line down the stretch, which absolutely cost them the conference tournament game against UCONN and the NCAA game against Harvard.

What are you talking about?

JJ went 0-2 on FTs against UConn, both coming at the end of the first half.

He went 3-6 against Harvard, making 1 of 2 in the middle of the first half, making an and-1 with 15 minutes left in the game, missing both with 10 minutes left in the second half with UC down 7, and making another and-1 with 7 minutes left to cut the Harvard lead to 2.

JJ's last 5 games:
13 points, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 steals, 3 assists against Memphis (W)
10 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists at Rutgers (W)
14 points, 8 rebounds, 4 blocks, 3 assists against UCF (W)
10 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 assists against UConn (L)
13 points, 11 rebounds, 4 blocks against Harvard (L)

The brutal thing about the Harvard game was the insane amount of layups he (and the team) missed.
 
07-23-2014 03:04 PM
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RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 02:59 PM)levydl Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 01:24 PM)Marcus Wrote:  As far as JJ goes he had to play, there was no legitimate competition for him at his position. He had a nice season early on but clearly faded out when it mattered most. He finished what was it... 5 for 25 from the foul line down the stretch, which absolutely cost them the conference tournament game against UCONN and the NCAA game against Harvard.

What are you talking about?

JJ went 0-2 on FTs against UConn, both coming at the end of the first half.

He went 3-6 against Harvard, making 1 of 2 in the middle of the first half, making an and-1 with 15 minutes left in the game, missing both with 10 minutes left in the second half with UC down 7, and making another and-1 with 7 minutes left to cut the Harvard lead to 2.

JJ's last 5 games:
13 points, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 steals, 3 assists against Memphis (W)
10 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists at Rutgers (W)
14 points, 8 rebounds, 4 blocks, 3 assists against UCF (W)
10 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 assists against UConn (L)
13 points, 11 rebounds, 4 blocks against Harvard (L)

The brutal thing about the Harvard game was the insane amount of layups he (and the team) missed.

This. Tons of em half down and popped out or just flat out missed. Guys were tight and it showed.
 
07-23-2014 03:33 PM
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Post: #17
RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
(07-23-2014 03:33 PM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 02:59 PM)levydl Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 01:24 PM)Marcus Wrote:  As far as JJ goes he had to play, there was no legitimate competition for him at his position. He had a nice season early on but clearly faded out when it mattered most. He finished what was it... 5 for 25 from the foul line down the stretch, which absolutely cost them the conference tournament game against UCONN and the NCAA game against Harvard.

What are you talking about?

JJ went 0-2 on FTs against UConn, both coming at the end of the first half.

He went 3-6 against Harvard, making 1 of 2 in the middle of the first half, making an and-1 with 15 minutes left in the game, missing both with 10 minutes left in the second half with UC down 7, and making another and-1 with 7 minutes left to cut the Harvard lead to 2.

JJ's last 5 games:
13 points, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 steals, 3 assists against Memphis (W)
10 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists at Rutgers (W)
14 points, 8 rebounds, 4 blocks, 3 assists against UCF (W)
10 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 assists against UConn (L)
13 points, 11 rebounds, 4 blocks against Harvard (L)

The brutal thing about the Harvard game was the insane amount of layups he (and the team) missed.

This. Tons of em half down and popped out or just flat out missed. Guys were tight and it showed.

Agree. He was great on D (when he didnt foul) but missed a lot of layups. He couldnt accept a guy playing good D on him and stopping him and would try and force things way to often.

Where as Rubles, another great defender, just missed his shots
 
07-23-2014 04:09 PM
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levydl Offline
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RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 02:59 PM)levydl Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 01:24 PM)Marcus Wrote:  As far as JJ goes he had to play, there was no legitimate competition for him at his position. He had a nice season early on but clearly faded out when it mattered most. He finished what was it... 5 for 25 from the foul line down the stretch, which absolutely cost them the conference tournament game against UCONN and the NCAA game against Harvard.

What are you talking about?

JJ went 0-2 on FTs against UConn, both coming at the end of the first half.

He went 3-6 against Harvard, making 1 of 2 in the middle of the first half, making an and-1 with 15 minutes left in the game, missing both with 10 minutes left in the second half with UC down 7, and making another and-1 with 7 minutes left to cut the Harvard lead to 2.

JJ's last 5 games:
13 points, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 steals, 3 assists against Memphis (W)
10 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists at Rutgers (W)
14 points, 8 rebounds, 4 blocks, 3 assists against UCF (W)
10 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 assists against UConn (L)
13 points, 11 rebounds, 4 blocks against Harvard (L)

wow soooo was this all from memory?

Ha, yes, of course. I memorize the moves of world class chess champions, epic Greek poems, and the time and score when Justin Jackson misses free throws.

Jackson did miss a bunch of layups against Harvard. It was not his best game (though I still UC would have won had Kilpatrick been more assertive enough). But I completely disagree with the original poster that JJ was the reason they lost those last two games and wasn't very good down the stretch. He had a great year, was the best defender on and the key to a great defensive team, and was solid on offense.
 
07-23-2014 04:30 PM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
(07-23-2014 04:30 PM)levydl Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 03:04 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 02:59 PM)levydl Wrote:  
(07-23-2014 01:24 PM)Marcus Wrote:  As far as JJ goes he had to play, there was no legitimate competition for him at his position. He had a nice season early on but clearly faded out when it mattered most. He finished what was it... 5 for 25 from the foul line down the stretch, which absolutely cost them the conference tournament game against UCONN and the NCAA game against Harvard.

What are you talking about?

JJ went 0-2 on FTs against UConn, both coming at the end of the first half.

He went 3-6 against Harvard, making 1 of 2 in the middle of the first half, making an and-1 with 15 minutes left in the game, missing both with 10 minutes left in the second half with UC down 7, and making another and-1 with 7 minutes left to cut the Harvard lead to 2.

JJ's last 5 games:
13 points, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 steals, 3 assists against Memphis (W)
10 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists at Rutgers (W)
14 points, 8 rebounds, 4 blocks, 3 assists against UCF (W)
10 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 assists against UConn (L)
13 points, 11 rebounds, 4 blocks against Harvard (L)

wow soooo was this all from memory?

Ha, yes, of course. I memorize the moves of world class chess champions, epic Greek poems, and the time and score when Justin Jackson misses free throws.

Jackson did miss a bunch of layups against Harvard. It was not his best game (though I still UC would have won had Kilpatrick been more assertive enough). But I completely disagree with the original poster that JJ was the reason they lost those last two games and wasn't very good down the stretch. He had a great year, was the best defender on and the key to a great defensive team, and was solid on offense.

LOL I was funnin' ya

but your stats prove your point
 
07-23-2014 06:33 PM
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Marcus Offline
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RE: Sanders, Guyn, Thomas
Either way he was horrendous down the stretch and it cost UC to fade out. His free throw statistics went in the tank down the stretch as well. May not have been from just the final two games but it was brutal and he was brutal on offense. The result. First Round NCAA exit.
 
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07-24-2014 05:40 AM
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