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Alternative history: American Civil war
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Alternative history: American Civil war
(07-18-2014 03:18 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  What if, as was said to be planned, the Confederacy retreated en-mas to South America and the Caribbean and set up a new governments in Brazil or Cuba? Combined with the potential for a Nazi retreat into after WWII into Argentina and and Chile, there arises the probable National-Socialist Confederate States of South America!

Interesting you brought that up. I was just reading about some Confederates that did leave for Brazil, but after the war.

The Confederados
07-20-2014 06:53 AM
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Native Georgian Online
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Post: #22
RE: Alternative history: American Civil war
(07-15-2014 02:02 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I see it's all about the southern end on this conversation, since nobody wants to discuss the possible result of General Hooker winning the battle of Chancellorsville.
Assume a scenario of total CSA defeat/surrender in summer/autumn of 1863, in which the Battle of Gettysburg never occurs. (That seems to be the scenario bit is describing). In that case, Lincoln presumably lives for many years beyond April 1865, and the concept of "Reconstruction" as we know it would have never taken place. The process of ending Slavery would have been spread out over a few years.
09-05-2014 03:49 PM
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JSF Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Alternative history: American Civil war
Sherman burns more of the South, probably. It wasn't really a winnable war, especially at that point. They were critically low on manpower, supplies, and morale. Would've taken much more than Stonewall.
09-06-2014 10:58 AM
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Native Georgian Online
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Post: #24
RE: Alternative history: American Civil war
(09-06-2014 10:58 AM)JSF Wrote:  Sherman burns more of the South, probably. It wasn't really a winnable war, especially at that point. They were critically low on manpower, supplies, and morale. Would've taken much more than Stonewall.
It's not well-known, but morale in the North wasn't exactly gung-ho, either. A clear, crushing defeat for Union forces in summer 1863 could have brought the whole thing to an end.

Sherman's use of arson on a large scale (as a matter of deliberate, intentional policy) didn't begin until September '64. If Stonewall had been alive and going at full power from May '63 onwards, I can scarcely believe that Sherman would've gotten to start that sooner.
09-07-2014 03:56 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Alternative history: American Civil war
If the States split in two, what would their relationship be like? USA / Canada, or Berlin Wall?
09-08-2014 10:36 AM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Alternative history: American Civil war
(09-08-2014 10:36 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  If the States split in two, what would their relationship be like? USA / Canada, or Berlin Wall?

More like France and Germany, Kentucky and Missouri playing the part of Alsace-Lorriane.
09-08-2014 12:21 PM
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BleedsHuskieRed Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Alternative history: American Civil war
(09-08-2014 10:36 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  If the States split in two, what would their relationship be like? USA / Canada, or Berlin Wall?
At this point probably USA/Canada. Slavery would have been abolished long ago anyways, even if the split had been permanent. Big 10/SEC games would be international affairs!
09-08-2014 01:36 PM
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South Carolina Duke Offline
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Post: #28
Alternative history: American Civil war
(09-07-2014 03:56 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(09-06-2014 10:58 AM)JSF Wrote:  Sherman burns more of the South, probably. It wasn't really a winnable war, especially at that point. They were critically low on manpower, supplies, and morale. Would've taken much more than Stonewall.
It's not well-known, but morale in the North wasn't exactly gung-ho, either. A clear, crushing defeat for Union forces in summer 1863 could have brought the whole thing to an end.

Sherman's use of arson on a large scale (as a matter of deliberate, intentional policy) didn't begin until September '64. If Stonewall had been alive and going at full power from May '63 onwards, I can scarcely believe that Sherman would've gotten to start that sooner.

Sherman was not promoted nor did he have any success until there was no one to fight.

Losing Jackson was huge! Until the Pa campaign, The ANV and Lee were undefeated.


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09-14-2014 09:43 PM
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ECUgradstudent Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Alternative history: American Civil war
(09-14-2014 09:43 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 03:56 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(09-06-2014 10:58 AM)JSF Wrote:  Sherman burns more of the South, probably. It wasn't really a winnable war, especially at that point. They were critically low on manpower, supplies, and morale. Would've taken much more than Stonewall.
It's not well-known, but morale in the North wasn't exactly gung-ho, either. A clear, crushing defeat for Union forces in summer 1863 could have brought the whole thing to an end.

Sherman's use of arson on a large scale (as a matter of deliberate, intentional policy) didn't begin until September '64. If Stonewall had been alive and going at full power from May '63 onwards, I can scarcely believe that Sherman would've gotten to start that sooner.

Sherman was not promoted nor did he have any success until there was no one to fight.

Losing Jackson was huge! Until the Pa campaign, The ANV and Lee were undefeated.


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George Meade and his leadership skills had just as much to do with the ANV and Lee losing as did Stonewall's death. Meade is a victim of not worrying about PR and being a professional solider that gave Lincoln/USA what they needed at the time (a victory at Gettysburg and no losses at Bristoe Station and Mine Run) and worked the with resources Lincoln/USA gave him (pulling troops for NYC riots and Army of Cumberland, not undertaking battle in mid fall of 63 when he was ready but Lincoln wanted him to wait, and etc).

Ironically, before and after Mine Run, Meade wanted to move to Fedricksburg as the supply base to allow a late 63/early 64 battle/campaign. Lincoln was completely opposed to this, but Grant accepted Meade's battle plan to go around the right flank (eastern side) of ANV/Lee in spring of 64 and Lincoln had to accede to Grant's request.
08-15-2015 04:44 PM
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South Carolina Duke Offline
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Post: #30
Alternative history: American Civil war
I would argue that Gettysburg was a tie.

Meade didn't put up a counter attack once The ANV came off of the field.
08-15-2015 04:48 PM
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