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levydl Online
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Post: #21
RE: Chris Mack Style of Basketball
(12-07-2017 12:22 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  Making fun of a cancer victim is a little higher on the pecking order than some good natured ribbing. This is the same fanbase who wished death upon Huggs, when he had the heart attack.

You think the XU students knew that she'd died a decade ago? If so, the joke, such as it was, wouldn't even make sense. Is Chris Mack's mother alive? I certainly have no clue.

It was a dumb joke about Cronin and his mother. No better or worse than your good-natured ribbing. Girls at that school are ugly, LOL hilarious bro high five! All in good fun, we're so much better than they are . . .
 
12-07-2017 01:31 PM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Chris Mack Style of Basketball
I remember xavier girls are ugly being a sorority thing. I could be wrong though.
 
12-07-2017 01:49 PM
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crex043 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Chris Mack Style of Basketball
The banner about Mick's mom is unfortunate, but really nothing that the university has control over.

The pattern of behavior of the players and coaches, both off and on the court, and fans, is an entirely different matter. Xavier and UC, both should be held to a much higher standard.
 
12-07-2017 02:09 PM
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Bruce Monnin Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Chris Mack Style of Basketball
I have to say I am more worried about the Mick Cronin style of basketball than Chris Mack's style.
 
12-07-2017 02:53 PM
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dubcat14 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Chris Mack Style of Basketball
(12-07-2017 01:31 PM)levydl Wrote:  
(12-07-2017 12:22 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  Making fun of a cancer victim is a little higher on the pecking order than some good natured ribbing. This is the same fanbase who wished death upon Huggs, when he had the heart attack.

You think the XU students knew that she'd died a decade ago? If so, the joke, such as it was, wouldn't even make sense. Is Chris Mack's mother alive? I certainly have no clue.

It was a dumb joke about Cronin and his mother. No better or worse than your good-natured ribbing. Girls at that school are ugly, LOL hilarious bro high five! All in good fun, we're so much better than they are . . .

All kidding aside, historically they are pretty ugly. It’s hard to shy away from facts.
 
12-07-2017 02:56 PM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Chris Mack Style of Basketball
(12-07-2017 01:31 PM)levydl Wrote:  
(12-07-2017 12:22 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  Making fun of a cancer victim is a little higher on the pecking order than some good natured ribbing. This is the same fanbase who wished death upon Huggs, when he had the heart attack.

You think the XU students knew that she'd died a decade ago? If so, the joke, such as it was, wouldn't even make sense. Is Chris Mack's mother alive? I certainly have no clue.

It was a dumb joke about Cronin and his mother. No better or worse than your good-natured ribbing. Girls at that school are ugly, LOL hilarious bro high five! All in good fun, we're so much better than they are . . .

I actually found the most insulting/offending part of that...banner?...to be the stupid "hashtag" thing. "Zip'em'up"??? Really??? They're still stuck on the whole Tu Holloway "gansta" talk?

The part of Mick's mother is unfortunate and inadvertent. I agree that they (the frat boys involved here) didn't know or care that Mick's mother died. It is a stupid and lame taunt in any case. And yeah, the University has no control over that...though it does paint Xavier in an unflattering light.

Back to the "Chris Mack Style" of playing basketball... It is clear that for a couple of coaches now, Xavier has recruited players who have more raw "talent" than "high character." It is infuriating that people still look (and talk about) UC as the "urban" school that cares more about winning than academics, and Xavier as the "Catholic" school that is "above" such things when the situation is actually EXACTLY opposite. UC has shown a much greater commitment...ACROSS SPORTS...about "character" and academics and sportsmanship than most schools and certainly more than Xavier has. Mack, Miller, and Matta all recruited guys who had...ah...character issues. But they won. Even in the "THuggins" era, UC didn't have "more than average" issues with players...and even after UC, those guys didn't have more than the "average" number of issues. But in the rebuilding years, Mick recruited players who by-and-large kept their "noses clean" and conducted themselves well. And when problems did arise...like the infamous "Xavier Brawl"... Mick dealt with those problems decisively and with GREATER discipline than Xavier.

The one problem I do have in this discussion between Mack and Cronin is that Mack (and Miller...and Matta...) have a commitment to winning that trumps other concerns. Now, I don't want Mick to go to the extreme of wanting to win so badly he puts up with the antics of a Macura, Halloway, or Freaze with no problems, but I would like to see Mick display some importance on winning. If there is a high-talent kid out there with some sort of issues...but issues Mick could work with...I'd like to see us take some chances. Part of coaching is bringing these kids along and growing them. I'd like to see Mick growing some of these kids who Mack (and Miller, and Matta) just let be.

Of course the rub is this: is a kid like Tu Holloway or JP Macura really able to "be coached"? (Not just on the court but also in their personal lives?) I suspect one of the reasons kids like these end up at a Xavier, playing for Chris Mack, is BECAUSE Mack is willing to let the off-the-court stuff slide so long as the kid is winning on the court. This is nothing new...we saw that at Louisville (with Chane Behannan among others) and Syracuse and other places. Kids who don't want to be challenged will usually follow the course of least resistance.
 
12-07-2017 03:07 PM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Chris Mack Style of Basketball
(12-07-2017 03:07 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(12-07-2017 01:31 PM)levydl Wrote:  
(12-07-2017 12:22 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  Making fun of a cancer victim is a little higher on the pecking order than some good natured ribbing. This is the same fanbase who wished death upon Huggs, when he had the heart attack.

You think the XU students knew that she'd died a decade ago? If so, the joke, such as it was, wouldn't even make sense. Is Chris Mack's mother alive? I certainly have no clue.

It was a dumb joke about Cronin and his mother. No better or worse than your good-natured ribbing. Girls at that school are ugly, LOL hilarious bro high five! All in good fun, we're so much better than they are . . .

I actually found the most insulting/offending part of that...banner?...to be the stupid "hashtag" thing. "Zip'em'up"??? Really??? They're still stuck on the whole Tu Holloway "gansta" talk?

The part of Mick's mother is unfortunate and inadvertent. I agree that they (the frat boys involved here) didn't know or care that Mick's mother died. It is a stupid and lame taunt in any case. And yeah, the University has no control over that...though it does paint Xavier in an unflattering light.

Back to the "Chris Mack Style" of playing basketball... It is clear that for a couple of coaches now, Xavier has recruited players who have more raw "talent" than "high character." It is infuriating that people still look (and talk about) UC as the "urban" school that cares more about winning than academics, and Xavier as the "Catholic" school that is "above" such things when the situation is actually EXACTLY opposite. UC has shown a much greater commitment...ACROSS SPORTS...about "character" and academics and sportsmanship than most schools and certainly more than Xavier has. Mack, Miller, and Matta all recruited guys who had...ah...character issues. But they won. Even in the "THuggins" era, UC didn't have "more than average" issues with players...and even after UC, those guys didn't have more than the "average" number of issues. But in the rebuilding years, Mick recruited players who by-and-large kept their "noses clean" and conducted themselves well. And when problems did arise...like the infamous "Xavier Brawl"... Mick dealt with those problems decisively and with GREATER discipline than Xavier.

The one problem I do have in this discussion between Mack and Cronin is that Mack (and Miller...and Matta...) have a commitment to winning that trumps other concerns. Now, I don't want Mick to go to the extreme of wanting to win so badly he puts up with the antics of a Macura, Halloway, or Freaze with no problems, but I would like to see Mick display some importance on winning. If there is a high-talent kid out there with some sort of issues...but issues Mick could work with...I'd like to see us take some chances. Part of coaching is bringing these kids along and growing them. I'd like to see Mick growing some of these kids who Mack (and Miller, and Matta) just let be.

Of course the rub is this: is a kid like Tu Holloway or JP Macura really able to "be coached"? (Not just on the court but also in their personal lives?) I suspect one of the reasons kids like these end up at a Xavier, playing for Chris Mack, is BECAUSE Mack is willing to let the off-the-court stuff slide so long as the kid is winning on the court. This is nothing new...we saw that at Louisville (with Chane Behannan among others) and Syracuse and other places. Kids who don't want to be challenged will usually follow the course of least resistance.

Bolded, very valid observation in my mind. A friend who is an IU fan has lamented the fact that several successful X players were recruited right out from under the Hoosiers in Indiana. Did IU, Purdue and Notre Dame really get "out-recruited" or were those schools/coaches unwilling to tolerate certain academic deficiencies or character issues? Of course the private universities have a greater ability to keep some matters private. Or, as we might say, what happens in Norwood, stays in Norwood.

With all that said, I'll give Mack credit for his team's performance last Saturday and there is no arguing with their postseason results during his tenure. Those same results would make for happier Bearcat fans and shorter threads on here in the post season.
 
12-07-2017 04:38 PM
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crex043 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Chris Mack Style of Basketball
I think with the players that Cronin is recruiting in the past two or three classes will make us come around to the Mick Cronin Style of Basketball 2.0, but this Xavier is not the same Xavier from the 80s and 90s. Barring a conference promotion that gives us more national exposure and a larger budget (and possibly benefit from playing in a brand-spanking new arena), we are likely to split the series with them moving forward, and it will mostly be driven by home court advantage. And before anyone says that this is due to Mick's brand of basketball, we need to look at Huggs record against Xavier. Mick has had the misfortune of playing Xavier during our rebuilding years and our descent from Big East affiliation, while Xavier has enjoyed a general upward trajectory.
 
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2017 05:55 PM by crex043.)
12-07-2017 05:54 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Chris Mack Style of Basketball
(12-07-2017 05:54 PM)crex043 Wrote:  I think with the players that Cronin is recruiting in the past two or three classes will make us come around to the Mick Cronin Style of Basketball 2.0, but this Xavier is not the same Xavier from the 80s and 90s. Barring a conference promotion that gives us more national exposure and a larger budget (and possibly benefit from playing in a brand-spanking new arena), we are likely to split the series with them moving forward, and it will mostly be driven by home court advantage. And before anyone says that this is due to Mick's brand of basketball, we need to look at Huggs record against Xavier. Mick has had the misfortune of playing Xavier during our rebuilding years and our descent from Big East affiliation, while Xavier has enjoyed a general upward trajectory.

well said and agree 100%


I hate XU and would rather lose to UK or O$U and I say that so people understand where I'm coming from on this: The ascent of XU has been remarkable. They were in the MCC in the early 90's playing in an old crap arena. They have done a LOT in 25 years. Now look where they are...playing in a power basketball conference in a first rate on campus facility. They have hired how many coaches in a row that have been "A" hires. They have also garnered national respect with nice tourney runs. How many other programs in the nation have had this type of rise in that time span?
 
12-08-2017 06:24 AM
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