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Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
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pharaoh0 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
(07-09-2014 07:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-09-2014 07:42 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  This is the bullsh*t trickle down economics that have produced the economic mess that we're dealing with today. These 2 FACTS will show you why Owl's entire line of argument is total bullsh*t.
1) The USA is wealthier as a nation today that it (or any nation in the history of mankind) has ever been.
2) The percentage of Americans on welfare is higher today than it has ever been.
I'll be happy to provide a long, long list of FACTS that make it abundantly clear what Owl's trickle-down, supply-side, right-wing economics have lead to, but those two facts above get right to the heart of it. Never fall for their lie that letting the ultra-rich hoard more wealth will somehow magically produce prosperity for everyone else. It's an evil lie that has hurt millions. Owl likes to say that Democrats are evil, but he need look no further than mirror to find that evil he's talking about.

Why don't you try responding to the argument I am actually making instead of conjuring up a strawman that does not represent what I said?

Trickle-down is BS. There, I've said it. Trickle-down doesn't work. Trickle-down is also not supply-side economics. Trickle-down says if you give the wealthy more to spend, they will spend it and the effect will spread around the economy. That's all on the demand side, not the supply side.

I agree with most of your criticism of trickle-down. Except the part where you attribute the pro-trickle-down position to me.

Why are you people arguing about an economics theory (trickle down) that no one has ever proposed? Trickle down was a strawman of the left to tarnish Reagan's great economy and recovery.
07-09-2014 08:41 PM
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Post: #42
Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
(07-09-2014 11:17 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Forget about the appalling number of adult parasites out there that would rather collect a check than earn one, THIS is easily the most disturbing part of the blurb:

Quote:A startling 38 percent of all children 5 and under in the United States were welfare recipients in 2011, according to the report.


4 out of 10. Count out ten little kids in a gym room, 4 of them are on welfare. That is mind boggling. And most unfortunately for us and even more so these kids, there is no doubt in my mind that this will only further ingrain the welfare as a lifestyle in an entire new generation of people in this once great Country.

4 out of 10. Let that wash over you for a moment. Someone asked what happens when the leeches eventually actually out number the producers that provide their largesse, well guess what? It appears we'll know here a LOT sooner than later.

This is simply one more stigma that the leftists have tried and are seemingly successful in normalizing. There was a time, not long ago at all, that accepting welfare truly was a last resort. A moment of reflection of your own failures, a true safety net when nothing else, literally, friends, family, church, was able or available.
Now? It's simply become another entitlement and folks have been conditioned to not just fall back on the public dole, but to actively seek it out as if it's owed them. Somehow it's now a birthright just for showing up.

40% of our little kids are on welfare. THAT is a national disgrace.

^this


Posted from the shallow recesses of my feeble mind.
07-09-2014 08:44 PM
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
(07-09-2014 07:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-09-2014 07:42 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  This is the bullsh*t trickle down economics that have produced the economic mess that we're dealing with today. These 2 FACTS will show you why Owl's entire line of argument is total bullsh*t.
1) The USA is wealthier as a nation today that it (or any nation in the history of mankind) has ever been.
2) The percentage of Americans on welfare is higher today than it has ever been.
I'll be happy to provide a long, long list of FACTS that make it abundantly clear what Owl's trickle-down, supply-side, right-wing economics have lead to, but those two facts above get right to the heart of it. Never fall for their lie that letting the ultra-rich hoard more wealth will somehow magically produce prosperity for everyone else. It's an evil lie that has hurt millions. Owl likes to say that Democrats are evil, but he need look no further than mirror to find that evil he's talking about.

Why don't you try responding to the argument I am actually making instead of conjuring up a strawman that does not represent what I said?

Trickle-down is BS. There, I've said it. Trickle-down doesn't work. Trickle-down is also not supply-side economics. Trickle-down says if you give the wealthy more to spend, they will spend it and the effect will spread around the economy. That's all on the demand side, not the supply side.

I agree with most of your criticism of trickle-down. Except the part where you attribute the pro-trickle-down position to me.

Right-wingers like to run away from the trickle-down label because it is so negatively received by the public. However, supply-side and trickle-down are virtually synonymous. Some will say that supply-side is a type of trickle-down theory, and others say that trickle-down is a subset of supply-side. In the end, most just use the two term interchangeably because they are almost identical. Here's one example of them being identified as the same thing (the definition of supply-side economics from Invetopedia):

Quote:Supply-side economics is better known to some as "Reaganomics," or the "trickle-down" policy espoused by 40th U.S. President Ronald Reagan. He popularized the controversial idea that greater tax cuts for investors and entrepreneurs provide incentives to save and invest, and produce economic benefits that trickle down into the overall economy. In this article, we summarize the basic theory behind supply-side economics.


There's an endless number of examples that you can easily find with a quick search. So sorry you don't like your supply-side economics being labeled as trickle-down, but they are.
07-09-2014 08:50 PM
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pharaoh0 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
(07-09-2014 07:17 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Another contributing factor to rising welfare rolls may be the incarceration of so many males., especially on simple drug possession charges. Many of these men could be living with their babies momma, if not wife, working and helping keep kids off welfare.The disastrous economy and the rights refusal to fund work projects hasn't helped either.

The contempt I hear for the unfortunate is shocking. None of you have the right to call yourselves christians, much less americans.Why are so many of you so greedy and unkind in your views of others?

Those of us on the right are very kind people. As to Christianity, you should pick up a Bible and read and try to understand what it says and what it doesn't say.

As to the economy, why should people be doing busy work on the government's dole? If the government merely got out of the way, the private sector could be unleashed and jobs created. Instead, the left wants to dictate their long list of principles to businesses. Red states are thriving and blue states are not due to this.

As to these "males", I have no idea who you are talking about. People just don't have 1 simple drug charge. These folks have several simple possession, PWIDs, distributions, and sometimes trafficking. Many times there are weapons charges and assaults ... many times upon that baby moma you speak of. I could write an essay on the problems of these families, but the real problem is the family structure and ethics -- or lack thereof.
07-09-2014 08:50 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
(07-09-2014 08:38 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  So, maximize profit at all costs. F paying your fair share. Very patriotic I must say.

So stupid business decisions are patriotic? What if you end up going bankrupt because of the difficulty competing with foreign companies in much more tax-efficient jurisdictions, and all your workers lose their jobs? Oh, well, I'm out of a job but at least my boss was patriotic. Patriotism does not require anyone to pay one dime more in taxes than s/he is required to do. And if this country is going to impose tax regimes that are punitive on domestic companies compared to foreign competitors, why is the right answer to blast the US company for doing what it has to in order to compete? Shouldn't we instead be blasting the lawmakers who imposed such stupid schemes? The US grew the greatest middle class in the world when this was the best place to do business and it therefore attracted investment which created high paying jobs. If we want to reestablish that middle class, we need to become that most attractive place to make profits again (reforming taxes is not the only thing we need to do, improving education and infrastructure are a couple more, but it is one thing that we need to do). And how is it that the left on the one hand complains that US companies go overseas to escape US taxes and regulations, and then turns around and argues that hey, we can raise those taxes even more and impose even more stifling regulation, and nobody will react by leaving the country? How do you reconcile those two positions?

Quote:Yes, I do. Daily. I work with the mentally ill who are without insurance, many homeless and many drug addicted. They are a very emotional subject for me and I get really pissed listening to the selfish, hateful, greedy attitude I hear coming from people who have absolutely no idea how hard many of these people are trying to better their situation.

Good for you. Seriously, if that sounds a bit flippant, it's not intended that way. We'd be far better off if many, many more Americans did more of that. I've actually had years where the IRS audited me because my charitable giving exceeded my gross income. Not that it really matters, but just figured it would be useful to put that into the record. And hell, yes, I take the appropriate tax deduction for every charitable gift. I'm under no obligation not to do so.

Quote:Here is the deal as I see it. I acknowledge freely there are leeches and malingerers. BUT these people are a very distinct minority. My concern about the right wing is that they do not distinguish between hard working unfortunates who may not have the IQ, mental or physical health to make it on their own and on the other hand the leeches. My concern is the right wingers would cut off eveyone just to spite the realtive few leeches. When I read the words spoken on here about the poor, all I hear is hatred. It is sickening to hear grown men and women whining constantly about the poor, then calling themselves christians. The system sucks, I admit it. But it's what we have to work with. There are just to many poor busting their ass to move up the food chain to disrespect them by calling them slaves living on the plantation.
The absolute heighth of cynism.

Let me make it crystal clear. The problem is not that the poor are lazy or lack character, and I reject such comments categorically. The problem is that they are trapped in a welfare system that structured to provide extreme disincentives, economic and otherwise, to anyone who tries to move up the food chain. That is the welfare plantation, and it is real. When a person moving from the poverty level to 2 times the poverty level (basically, the lower end of middle class) loses anywhere from 65 to 85 cents per each marginal dollar to the combination of taxes and lost welfare benefits, that does enslave them in poverty. It's not a character defect, it's the design of the system. Since democrats designed that system and seem pretty happy to keep it just the way it is, I'm thinking they must be relishing the role of plantation master. As long as they can keep them dumb and poor, they can keep them voting democrat. I agree that republicans and the right are for the most part tone deaf on this issue, and I find that very frustrating as well. It seems to me that this is such an easy issue that republicans should be able to come up with some far more attractive alternatives. As I've posted many times before, my own choice is to combine either Milton Friedman's negative income tax or the Boortz-Linder prebate (basically the same thing in a consumption tax context) with French Bismarck health care. Take the myriad of current welfare programs and either can them or let the states take them over. Since Bismarck health care lifts a sizable Medicaid burden off the states, they should be able to do that.

That seems to me like a slam dunk for republicans to propose. But they don't. That's one more reason why I'm not a republican.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2014 09:09 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
07-09-2014 09:07 PM
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pharaoh0 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
(07-09-2014 08:50 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Right-wingers like to run away from the trickle-down label because it is so negatively received by the public. However, supply-side and trickle-down are virtually synonymous. Some will say that supply-side is a type of trickle-down theory, and others say that trickle-down is a subset of supply-side. In the end, most just use the two term interchangeably because they are almost identical. Here's one example of them being identified as the same thing (the definition of supply-side economics from Invetopedia):

Quote:Supply-side economics is better known to some as "Reaganomics," or the "trickle-down" policy espoused by 40th U.S. President Ronald Reagan. He popularized the controversial idea that greater tax cuts for investors and entrepreneurs provide incentives to save and invest, and produce economic benefits that trickle down into the overall economy. In this article, we summarize the basic theory behind supply-side economics.


There's an endless number of examples that you can easily find with a quick search. So sorry you don't like your supply-side economics being labeled as trickle-down, but they are.

Let's try again. Trickle down is a strawman created by the left. No one has ever proposed a "trickle down" theory. The left says that trickle down is merely benefiting the rich and hoping their buying will pass benefits down the ladder. They like this definition because it pretends that the policies are created just to help the rich and the poor merely eat the crumbs at the end of the line.

Supply side, by contrast, is the idea that by increasing supply of products and services will create a competitive marketplace and thereby lower costs to consumers. Some of the policies that gov't can use to pursue supply side are reduction in regulation and tax cuts. Under supply side you are enticing people to enter the marketplace with their capital to produce. These producers can be very wealthy people or a group of housecleaner trying to open a new business. The idea is to make the ROI attractive enough so that these producers enter the marketplace and create jobs. And yes, in order to enjoy a tax cut, you have to be a tax payer or a producer. If your effective rate is 0% or less, then no, you are not and should not benefit from a tax cut...duh.
07-09-2014 09:10 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
(07-09-2014 08:50 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Right-wingers like to run away from the trickle-down label because it is so negatively received by the public. However, supply-side and trickle-down are virtually synonymous. Some will say that supply-side is a type of trickle-down theory, and others say that trickle-down is a subset of supply-side. In the end, most just use the two term interchangeably because they are almost identical. Here's one example of them being identified as the same thing (the definition of supply-side economics from Invetopedia):
Quote:Supply-side economics is better known to some as "Reaganomics," or the "trickle-down" policy espoused by 40th U.S. President Ronald Reagan. He popularized the controversial idea that greater tax cuts for investors and entrepreneurs provide incentives to save and invest, and produce economic benefits that trickle down into the overall economy. In this article, we summarize the basic theory behind supply-side economics.

There's an endless number of examples that you can easily find with a quick search. So sorry you don't like your supply-side economics being labeled as trickle-down, but they are.

Total BS, as is your norm.

You want to maintain that "trickle-down" is supply side economics? Fine, start by explaining where "trickle-down" addresses anything on the supply side of the house. That would be far more compelling than posting a quote from Invetopedia (sic).

"Trickle-down" is a Keynesian approach to trying to understand supply side economics. Since Keynesians understand only the demand side, they try to understand supply-side economics as a demand function. But supply side economics means you deal with the supply side (duh, how clever, right?). "Trickle-down" doesn't do that. The person in the Reagan administration who coined the term was someone who admitted freely that he didn't understand supply side economics.

One huge problem with the "Bush tax cuts" is that Bush's economic team didn't understand the supply side, because they were Keynesians (including Mankiw, whom you somehow mistakenly think is someone that I follow).

If you want to talk about supply side economics, then talk about things that impact the supply side--like investment and production, instead of consumption.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2014 09:23 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
07-09-2014 09:20 PM
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
From InvestorWords:

Quote:Definition
An economic theory which holds that reducing tax rates, especially for businesses and wealthy individuals, stimulates savings and investment for the benefit of everyone. also called trickle-down economics.

Read more: http://www.investorwords.com/4825/supply...z371qa877s
07-09-2014 09:29 PM
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
From a Pew article on Art Laffer:

Quote:Laffer further argues that people and businesses flee states with high taxes to move to those with lower taxes. "It's not rocket surgery," says Laffer, who himself moved from California to Tennessee precisely because the state has lower taxes and is one of nine without an income tax.

Laffer has always had his detractors. George H.W. Bush once called the supply-side concept "voodoo economics," and critics, including President Obama, still call it "trickle-down economics": The benefits of cutting taxes for the rich are supposed to eventually trickle down as entrepreneurs retain more money to create jobs. Instead, opponents say, the tax cuts that Laffer promoted in the 1980s created massive deficits, helped the rich get richer, and led to a greater income gap between the haves and have-nots.
07-09-2014 09:39 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
(07-09-2014 09:29 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  From InvestorWords:
Quote:Definition
An economic theory which holds that reducing tax rates, especially for businesses and wealthy individuals, stimulates savings and investment for the benefit of everyone. also called trickle-down economics.
Read more: http://www.investorwords.com/4825/supply...z371qa877s

OMG, somebody posted something on the Internet, it must be true.

If you want to maintain that "trickle down" is supply side economics, start by pointing out how "trickle down" relates to the supply side. In particular, you might take a shot at explaining how having the second highest corporate marginal tax rate among developed countries under Bush was designed to stimulate investment.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2014 09:40 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
07-09-2014 09:39 PM
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
Even the Pope and Reagan's Budget Director agree:

Quote:As Pope Francis points out, there is no hard evidence that trickle-down economics has worked for anyone, except the rich. In fact, instead of wealth trickling down, it has actually trickled up. Ronald Reagan, whose administration enthusiastically embraced trickle-down economics, tried to make it more palatable to the public by calling it "supply-side" economics, as David Stockman, Reagan's budget director, willingly admits. The sound-bite hungry public ignored the "supply-side" euphemism, however, and dubbed it "Reaganomics." But name changes cannot mask facts. Between the years 1981 and 1990 -- nearly all of them during Reagan's presidency -- the after-tax incomes of the poorest 20 percent of Americans dropped by 12 percent, while the after tax incomes of the wealthiest one percent increased by 136 percent.
07-09-2014 09:44 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
Are you just cutting and pasting from the Internet because you can't answer the questions that I asked above?
07-09-2014 09:51 PM
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
We can keep doing this all night. I know all you supply-siders hate the trickle-down lablel, but you should face reality. I can start linking academic articles if you prefer, but we both know that there's no amount of objective third-party evidence or opinion that's going to make you face the fact that the terms of commonly viewed as synonymous.

Quote:Trickle-Down Economics Definition

Trickle-down economics does exactly what it says -- the benefits of economic policies that help the wealthy trickle down to everyone else. For the most part, these policies mean tax cuts. Trickle-down economics assumes that the real drivers of economic growth are those who are successful in society -- business owners, investors, and savers. The extra cash they get from tax cuts is used to expand companies directly, investing in business, or adding savings (liquidity) that can be used for business lending.

According to trickle-down economics, the first thing businesses do with extra money is hire workers. These workers spend their wages, driving demand. The net result is a faster growing economy.

Trickle-Down Economic Theory

Trickle-down economic theory is based upon supply-side economics. This theory states general tax cuts, to businesses and workers, will translate to increased economic growth. Businesses will invest, as in trickle-down economics, but workers will also spend the extra cash, further stimulating demand. Trickle-down theory is more exclusive than supply-side theory, in that it states that specific types of tax cuts -- corporate, capital gains, and savings -- work better than general tax cuts.

Trickle-Down Economics Is Based on the Laffer Curve

Proponents of both trickle-down and supply-side economics point to the Laffer Curve for their proof of how well tax reductions can stimulate the economy. Economist Arthur Laffer showed how tax cuts provide a powerful multiplication effect. Over time, tax cuts drive business growth and additional hiring so much that eventually the government revenue lost from the cuts is replaced. That's because the expanded, successful economy provides a larger tax base.

However, Laffer points out that this effect works best when taxes are in the "Prohibitive Range." If taxes are already low, then tax cuts will do nothing more than reduce government revenue -- without stimulating additional economic growth.
07-09-2014 10:09 PM
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RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
So you can't answer my questions from above?

Didn't think so.

Cutting and pasting unattributed Internet postings is hardly compelling.

I will note the last statement in your latest post. Laffer points out that supply side works best in the "Prohibitive Range." Republican "trickle-down" proponents insist on lowering taxes always, regardless of where taxes are. That's one (of many) big differences between "trickle down" and supply side. And your quote states that.
07-09-2014 10:18 PM
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RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
Here's a little primer on trickle-down theories (note the bolded sentence at the end):

Quote:In a nu­tshell, trickle-down theory is based on the premise that within an economy, giving tax breaks to the top earners makes them more likely to earn more. Top earners invest that extra money in productive economic activities or spend more of their time at the high-paying trade they do best (whether that be creating inventions or performing heart surgeries). Either way, these activities will be productive, reinvigorate economic growth and, in the end, generate more tax revenue from these earners and the people they've helped. According to the theory, this boost in growth will ultimately help those in lower income brackets as well. Although trickle-down economics is often associated with the policies of Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, the theory dates back to the 1920s. The name also has roots in the '20s, when humorist Will Rogers coined the term, saying, "The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes it would trickle down to the needy"

Why anyone would give huge tax breaks to the wealthy eludes many of us. Some would argue that because the rich have used the freedoms of an ec­onomy to make much more money than they need, they should give back a larger share than those who are struggling. This is the very idea behind the progressive income tax in the United States: When income reaches higher brackets, the government taxes that excess at a higher rate. But under the logic of trickle-down theory, tax breaks for the wealthy benefit all.

To understand the reasoning behind this, let's take look at the history of the idea and the basic principle of supply and demand. In an economic slump, some say the government should make efforts to increase the supply (output or production) of an economy. Others argue the opposite: Lack of consumer demand is the root of the problem, and government should encourage consumer demand.

Nineteenth-century French economist Jean-Baptiste Say argued the former. Say's Law states that the way to economic growth is to boost production, and demand naturally follows. This flew in the face of the belief of the time, which was that a lack of money -- and thus lack of demand -- caused bad economic times [source: Skousen]. Say asserted that there will always be a demand for the right kind of products.

You could think of it this way: If there are people willing to work during a recession, they obviously want money in order to consume something. They must already have a demand that is not being met -- what they demand is either too expensive for them to afford or is not being produced. Producing in-demand products and driving down costs will create profit for the seller, and thus the means for him to satisfy his or her demand. Hence, production greases the wheels of the economy. This logic made sense to major thinkers of the time, including Thomas Jefferson and James Madison [source: Acton Institute].

A century later, the tide had turned in the United States. By the time the Great Depression hit in the 1930s, many legislators held the opposite view. The most notable opponent to Say's Law during this time was John Maynard Keynes, a British economist. Keynes argued that there are such things as overproduction and lack of demand, and the key is to increase demand rather than supply. Government should promote consumer demand rather than entrepreneurial production. When people consume more, they create more jobs and production.

Arguing that "in the long run, we are all dead," Keynes pushed for short-term fixes for immediate economic stability. He encouraged governments to adjust monetary policies (interest rates and the availability or amount of money circulating) and fiscal policies (government spending and taxes) to boost demand. Part of these adjustments includes increasing taxes on the rich and reducing taxes on the poor. While the rich would invest their money on making more products, the poor would be more likely to spend, consuming the oversupply that was the source of the problem [source: Wanniski]. Keynesian economics continued as the predominant philosophy in the United States for decades to come.

By the 1970s, trickle-down ideas were percolating in the minds of some economists who sought a return to Say's principles. Next, we'll learn how economists were able to garner support for trickle-down theory.

Why do trickle-down economists think that taxing the wealthy less leads to an increase in production? That can be explained in terms of tax revenue. Some argue that giving tax breaks to the wealthy can actually increase tax revenue for a government. This might seem difficult to believe, but Arthur Laffer argued otherwise. Working off ideas posed by 14th-century Muslim philosopher Ibn Khaldun and John Maynard Keynes, Laffer concluded that government tax rates and revenues don't have a directly positive correlation.

In what became known as the Laffer Curve, Laffer showed that the relationship between taxes and revenues looks like a curve rather than a straight line. In other words, tax revenues don't rise consistently like tax rates do (which would look like a straight, positive correlation). Laffer's curve shows that when tax rates are at zero, revenues are zero as well -- the government makes no money when it taxes nothing. But it's the same result if the tax rate were 100 percent. Think about what would happen if the government demanded every cent in your paycheck. Why work -- or why tell the government what you're making? The government would bring in no money because there'd be no incentive to work or to report earnings.

So tax revenues are zero when the tax rates are at zero and 100 percent -- most agree about that. The question is, what does it look like between these extremes? The Laffer Curve postulates that once the rates get too high, the steep taxes discourage work to an extent that the revenues themselves suffer. Take another scenario: By June, you've already made a million dollars, and the progressive tax system promised to tax that income 50 percent. However, anything you make over a million will be taxed 90 percent. Why work the rest of the year when you know you can only keep 10 percent of your income? You'd probably take your half a million and retire to your beach house until next year. At this point, the taxes are discouraging work and tax revenue.

The range in which taxes are too high for maximum revenues is called the prohibitive range. When taxes are in the prohibitive range, a tax cut would produce an increase in tax revenues, according to Laffer [source: Laffer]. But the ideal tax isn't necessarily 50 percent; rather, it depends on the taxpayers [source: Wanniski].

Through Laffer's Curve, we can visualize how tax rates could discourage people from producing, which results in fewer jobs and a hurting economy. On the flip side, lowering taxes at the right time can reverse these effects. Laffer points to examples in U.S. history where lowering high tax rates increased not only government revenue, but also increased gross domestic product (GDP) growth and lowered the unemployment rate [source: Laffer].

Jude Wanniski built on Laffer's idea and argued for a return to ideas centered around Say's Law -- in other words, increasing production. If Laffer's Curve is correct, then cutting taxes for the wealthy can encourage investment and production to promote general economic health. Wanniski explains in "The Way the World Works" how boosting the supply side of the economy rather than the demand side is the way to economic prosperity. He also makes clear that cutting the prohibitive, high taxes of the wealthy will encourage more economic activity and growth for all. Redubbed supply-side economics (which supporters find a less polarizing name), trickle-down economics found new life in the United States in the 1980s. But before we get to its implementation, let's sum up the basics of trickle-down economics.
07-09-2014 10:18 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
This is really funny. Okie is bashing me as a left wing democrat in one thread and Grad is bashing me as a right-wing nut in another. That pretty much says all you need to know about Okie and Grad.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2014 10:20 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
07-09-2014 10:20 PM
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Kronke Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
(07-09-2014 07:51 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Why complain? more votes for us, Right? generation after generation of built in votes and the righties can't think of a counterbalancing strategy. Why?

Keep believing you're on the "winning team". You (and your kids) won't get social security or health care when they get older, just like the rest of us.
07-09-2014 10:24 PM
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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RE: Dems Rejoice! HHS Report Says % Of Americans On Welfare Is At An All-Time High
Quote on Art Laffer from Forbes:

Quote:Laffer is best known for his eponymously-named Laffer Curve, and made the case that lowering income taxes for the wealthy will generally create more revenue. This helped gain him entry into the Reagan White House, where he helped shape the idea known as “trickle-down economics.” The takeaway is that as you lower taxes on the wealthy they reinvest their cash back into the economy in infinite ways, enriching everyone.

Quote on Art Laffer from The Laffer Center:

Quote:Arthur B. Laffer’s economic acumen and influence in triggering a world-wide tax-cutting movement in the 1980s have earned him the distinction in many publications as “The Father of Supply-Side Economics.” The Laffer Curve is one of the main theoretical constructs of supply-side economics, illustrating the tradeoff between tax rates and actual tax revenues.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2014 10:47 PM by UM2001GRAD.)
07-09-2014 10:28 PM
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