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We need to get this Alabama game
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #21
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
Tom Groeschen @TomGroeschen · 3h

Tuberville says #UC has talked with Texas A&M re scheduling; Ala. home-home unlikely. Per @FBSchedules http://bit.ly/1sxyaZ4 #Bearcats
 
07-09-2014 02:56 PM
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Coopdaddy67 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
(07-09-2014 09:40 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  I know I'll always be in the minority on this point but I am absolutely against playing a team like Alabama without getting a return home game. And mostly I'm against playing them even if UC would get a home-and-home series. UC's best roadmap is to play the usual OOC scrubs, play a beatable P5 team or two, then run the table in conference. A 12-0 record with a weak schedule trumps an 11-1 schedule where you get waxed by the only real legit team you played. If you're undefeated then there's always the arguement that UC belongs with the big boys. Getting hammered by Bama just proves their point that UC doesn't belong. And let's be realistic, UC isn't on their level yet. I'd give it a 75% chance UC loses by two TD's or more, a 20% UC loses by less than two TD's, and a 5% chance UC wins. It's not worth those odds.

Make yourself look good until a P5 conference comes calling. And if they day ever comes where UC gets into P5 conference, then schedule anyone you want.

Why would a team like Alabama give UC a home-and-home series? It makes no sense for the top tier programs to do that when they can just pay a couple middle-of-the-road teams to come into their stadium and get waxed if need be.

Given the overall weakness of the conference, UC needs a couple of games against good opponents. You can't play nobody outside the conference and ever expect to beat a 1-loss SEC team for a slot. Hell, that would probably hold true for teams from the other major conferences most years as well.

UC's athletic department needs money. If Alabama or any other top tier program will throw a huge bag of money on the table for one game at their place, you take it IMO.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2014 03:39 PM by Coopdaddy67.)
07-09-2014 03:38 PM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #23
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
I don't know about the "relative weakness" of the conference... I am more concerned at keeping the "University of Cincinnati" brand in front of eyeballs. Nobody outside of our immediate fan-base is watching us play ECU, or a directional Florida, Houston, or Tulane. Not playing the major National "brand names" is a sure way to get back to "Does the University of Cincinnati have a football team?" again.
 
07-09-2014 04:36 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #24
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
(07-09-2014 04:36 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  I don't know about the "relative weakness" of the conference... I am more concerned at keeping the "University of Cincinnati" brand in front of eyeballs. Nobody outside of our immediate fan-base is watching us play ECU, or a directional Florida, Houston, or Tulane. Not playing the major National "brand names" is a sure way to get back to "Does the University of Cincinnati have a football team?" again.

Jerry, actually those Thursday and Friday night games on ESPN are nationally televised. So people outside of our immediate fan base will see us. We have 4 of those. We have 1 game on the Big Ten Network vs. the Best team in the Big Ten. Hurricane game will get picked more than likely. If Houston is meaningful last game of the season that will be national also.

Also, realignment is one of the most popular topics nationally in current events and Cincinnati is usually mentioned in the next sentence or so. The question is not does UC have a team, it is how good are they, can they beat X, will they get a p5 invite. Nationally people know who we are. The most important thing is to Win, we do control that.
 
07-09-2014 05:11 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #25
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
(07-09-2014 03:38 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  
(07-09-2014 09:40 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  I know I'll always be in the minority on this point but I am absolutely against playing a team like Alabama without getting a return home game. And mostly I'm against playing them even if UC would get a home-and-home series. UC's best roadmap is to play the usual OOC scrubs, play a beatable P5 team or two, then run the table in conference. A 12-0 record with a weak schedule trumps an 11-1 schedule where you get waxed by the only real legit team you played. If you're undefeated then there's always the arguement that UC belongs with the big boys. Getting hammered by Bama just proves their point that UC doesn't belong. And let's be realistic, UC isn't on their level yet. I'd give it a 75% chance UC loses by two TD's or more, a 20% UC loses by less than two TD's, and a 5% chance UC wins. It's not worth those odds.

Make yourself look good until a P5 conference comes calling. And if they day ever comes where UC gets into P5 conference, then schedule anyone you want.

Why would a team like Alabama give UC a home-and-home series? It makes no sense for the top tier programs to do that when they can just pay a couple middle-of-the-road teams to come into their stadium and get waxed if need be.

Given the overall weakness of the conference, UC needs a couple of games against good opponents. You can't play nobody outside the conference and ever expect to beat a 1-loss SEC team for a slot. Hell, that would probably hold true for teams from the other major conferences most years as well.

As I mentioned in other threads, one big change is the playoffs determined by a committee that will have a real focus on strength of schedule. So it works both ways. Even cynics can't deny that a win over UC at home or especially a win at UC is much more impressive than a home win over say NE Alabama St.

And one thing that's interesting about the SEC is it is probably the only conference right now with a somewhat realistic chance of getting 2 teams in the playoffs. And it's not at all farfetched to think that the OOC schedule could make/break the diffference either way for an Alabama team that let's say loses the SEC CG. That would be a nice cushion to have. Now is that enough by itself? Maybe, maybe not. But it sounds like Texas A&M may be considering a home/home with UC as well and with their newly remodeled 102K seat stadium, their situation is pretty similar to Bama's. Maybe that's all smoke too, maybe not. But let's not forget that Alabama is clearly publicly known to be in a rather large bind schedule-wise for 2015 and at this point, its options are limited. And the options get fewer and more expensive while the pressure gets greater every day until they get something finalized. Here's Alabama's AD in a May 29th article:

Quote:Battle wants to get this done quickly because the longer Alabama waits, “the more expensive it gets,” he said.

Still sounds unlikely based upon Tub's comments, but I'm confident he knows the lay of the land when it comes to scheduling (including in the SEC) and horse-trading. Let's see what happens...
 
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2014 01:22 AM by Bearhawkeye.)
07-09-2014 06:05 PM
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Coopdaddy67 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
No it doesn't, Alabama is in the SEC. Their non-conference schedule is basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things. If they're undefeated or have only one loss, that means they beat some really good football teams along the way. So no, it doesn't work both ways because UC doesn't have a conference schedule to bolster their SOS.
 
07-09-2014 08:43 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #27
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
(07-09-2014 08:43 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  No it doesn't, Alabama is in the SEC. Their non-conference schedule is basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things. If they're undefeated or have only one loss, that means they beat some really good football teams along the way. So no, it doesn't work both ways because UC doesn't have a conference schedule to bolster their SOS.

Of course it does. If their only motive is to buy a home cupcake game why didn't they do it already? They've got the money. I'm sure there's plenty of them with no realistic elite post-season bowl aspirations who could use a big payday. But they haven't. WHY? The system is changing (which isn't to say they won't eventually end up with a cupcake if they remain too stubborn.)

Nobody's claiming that the SEC CCG winner isn't a shoe-in most years (although anything can happen). The issue is who gets the other 3 slots, how they are seeded and who goes to the other premiere bowls. And SOS is going to be a big factor in all of those, especially if you are the SEC runner-up (e.g with only a loss in the SEC CG) and you are competing with other conference champions (which is another criteria) and maybe an undefeated G5 team or two for 3 remaining playoff slots.

Teams can't exactly control the strength of the conference schedule, but they have complete control over the non-conference. My strong guess is the committee will be factoring in whether you only schedule OOC home cupcakes just like they do in basketball. And since football has fewer games especially head-to-head games, there's likely to be even more gray area. And I'm guessing the benefit of the doubt in those gray areas is going to go to teams that didn't sit out a CCG and didn't choose a cupcake home OOC schedule. We'll see.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2014 08:25 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
07-09-2014 10:45 PM
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Coopdaddy67 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
It's a completely different animal and you know it; you can't compare basketball and football scheduling. The committee's going to look at the teams in the running and decide who's the best. They aren't going to penalize teams that have a softer non-conference schedule compared to schools outside the SEC. They're going to say "DUH!" when they look at most SEC schools' schedules and see few challenges in the non-conference portion because their regular season more than makes up for it.

The SEC regular season is a brutal run for anyone that's going to come out of the conference with < 2 losses. It's guaranteed that at least one SEC school will make the playoff every single year. Guaranteed.

Edit: Just for kicks, I looked at SEC champion Auburn's schedule last year: four conference opponents who finished the year in the Top 20. Three others received votes. So yeah, the SEC speaks for itself. You aren't going to schedule challenging OOC games when your conference season is loaded with them week after week after week. It's the other conferences that have to challenge themselves in the non-conference portion because they can't come close to matching the gauntlet that is the SEC conference schedule.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2014 11:50 PM by Coopdaddy67.)
07-09-2014 11:35 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #29
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
(07-09-2014 11:35 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  It's a completely different animal and you know it; you can't compare basketball and football scheduling. The committee's going to look at the teams in the running and decide who's the best. They aren't going to penalize teams that have a softer non-conference schedule compared to schools outside the SEC. They're going to say "DUH!" when they look at most SEC schools' schedules and see few challenges in the non-conference portion because their regular season more than makes up for it.

The SEC regular season is a brutal run for anyone that's going to come out of the conference with < 2 losses. It's guaranteed that at least one SEC school will make the playoff every single year. Guaranteed.

Although it's clear you avoid addressing every question and point I make, I'll ask again: If Alabama has no incentive to schedule anything but home FCS level cupcake games, why haven't they done it given how desperate they are for 2015? Per the quote from their AD I posted above from an article over a month old, it only gets more expensive the longer they wait. Maybe SOS concerns? Here's CBS College Football Insider Jeremy Fowler:

Quote:Alabama has Wisconsin and Louisiana-Monroe on the non-conference schedule, and though Battle doesn't remember the third game offhand, Alabama is expected to play an FCS opponent in mid-November, according to a source.

That means Battle probably can't schedule another FCS for strength-of-schedule purposes though he sounds desperate enough to do just that.

So much for no concern about Alabama's OOC SOS...

And you vastly overestimate how far their SEC schedule carries a school like Alabama in SOS rankings. For example, last year their SOS was 39th per Sagarin and that includes the CCGs and bowl games which presumably gave them a nice bump. When you only play a 12 game schedule, it's silly to think you can blow off 1/3 of them and not have it impact your SOS imo. The committee's charter explicitely cites SOS (which obviously includes OOC), as a critical factor and there is nothing indicating the SEC or any conference is exempt from that other than your personal claims otherwise. Even Alabama knows this and cares about it - that's why they'd prefer to avoid buying a 2nd FCS game even with Wisconsin and a decent ULM already on their OOC schedule. But clearly you've made up your mind that "Their non-conference schedule is basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things" and I don't sense an openness in your position no matter what facts I present so I'll leave the issue at that.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2014 08:27 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
07-10-2014 01:02 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #30
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
(07-09-2014 11:35 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  It's guaranteed that at least one SEC school will make the playoff every single year. Guaranteed.

Auburn's undefeated 2004 team says "Hi"

The reason the SEC has so much cachet is because of their OOC wins over other P5 conference opponents. They've been riding that for many years now, while other P5s (notably the Big Ten and Pac-12) have been hammering away at the non-conference SoS. I agree that an undefeated SEC team with 2 FCS wins would probably make it into the playoffs, but even a 1-loss team with TWO FCS wins faces a lot of uncertainty, IMO.
 
07-10-2014 06:07 AM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #31
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
(07-10-2014 06:07 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-09-2014 11:35 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  It's guaranteed that at least one SEC school will make the playoff every single year. Guaranteed.

Auburn's undefeated 2004 team says "Hi"

The reason the SEC has so much cachet is because of their OOC wins over other P5 conference opponents. They've been riding that for many years now, while other P5s (notably the Big Ten and Pac-12) have been hammering away at the non-conference SoS. I agree that an undefeated SEC team with 2 FCS wins would probably make it into the playoffs, but even a 1-loss team with TWO FCS wins faces a lot of uncertainty, IMO.

A single loss SEC school would be in the hunt, but A PAC 12, BIG etc. 1 loss team might be there with them. Often this stuff goes around in cycles. SEC has been on a roll. OSU has been consistent. PAC 12 is stronger now than it was 5 years ago, even more so if USC gets back to form. 10 years ago Oklahoma and Texas were at the top of their game.
Before that the Canes dynasty was coming to an end, even VaTech made an appearance in the title game. FSU might be back from their rip van winkle siesta.
 
07-10-2014 06:43 AM
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rosewater Offline
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Post: #32
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
No one has even mentioned the fact that their could be multiple 1 loss teams within the SEC. In effect, the SEC could be competing against each other for a second playoff slot. In any given year, South Carolina, Georgia, Auburn, and Tennessee can play elite football.
 
07-10-2014 07:15 AM
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Coopdaddy67 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
(07-10-2014 06:07 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Auburn's undefeated 2004 team says "Hi"

You do realize it's an entirely different situation today than it was then, right?
 
07-10-2014 08:32 AM
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Coopdaddy67 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
(07-10-2014 06:43 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  A single loss SEC school would be in the hunt, but A PAC 12, BIG etc. 1 loss team might be there with them. Often this stuff goes around in cycles. SEC has been on a roll. OSU has been consistent. PAC 12 is stronger now than it was 5 years ago, even more so if USC gets back to form. 10 years ago Oklahoma and Texas were at the top of their game.
Before that the Canes dynasty was coming to an end, even VaTech made an appearance in the title game. FSU might be back from their rip van winkle siesta.

Agreed, but I was commenting on major conference scheduling vs. non-major conference scheduling. In most years though, the strength of the SEC is going to give them a solid edge against those other major conference teams in the running.

My original point was simple:

UC and teams in the lesser conferences are forced to bolster their schedule in the non-conference portion because their conference opponents are weak compared to those of major conference programs. Given that, Alabama (and schools like them) are in a position of power when negotiating with the programs from these other conferences. Thus, there's no pressure to accept home-and-home series' with teams from the non-major conferences. They'll save those for their yearly, one-game matchup against another major conference program.

---

As for the comment about playing all FCS teams in the non-conference, do you not understand how games against more than one FCS program a year have been treated?
 
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2014 09:13 AM by Coopdaddy67.)
07-10-2014 09:06 AM
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Bearcat2012 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
Alabama just scheduled USC for a neutral site game in Texas for 2016
 
07-16-2014 12:02 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #36
RE: We need to get this Alabama game
(07-16-2014 12:02 PM)Bearcat2012 Wrote:  Alabama just scheduled USC for a neutral site game in Texas for 2016

I assume the Cowboy Classic will guarantee Alabama somewhere around $4M to play there... How much did UC offer? (I kid).
 
07-16-2014 01:16 PM
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