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If the SEC did expand again...
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BearcatsUC Offline
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Post: #21
RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 12:39 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 11:15 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  I was taking a look at the SEC board to see what they talk about and found this thread:

http://www.csnbbs.com/thread-639096.html

I was quite surprised by the number of folks who thought UC would be a great addition:

- Rich recruiting area
- Great potential TV audience, and
- A burr in the Buckeye's backside 03-lmfao

Actually, UC to the SEC makes more sense than to the Big12. Not wanting to start some big debate, just surprised to see the discussion. UC is a great addition to any P5 conference and it's coming - it's just a matter of time.

I made a few of the same points about UC selling themselves to the SEC right after Louisville was taken by the ACC (even went so far as to write Whit). There is a ton of logic to it. They get into the 6th most populous state, in the heart of big ten country, in one of the 2 Big Time recruiting states they don't have a presence in (Cali being the other). Any SEC Network immediately is going to be shown throughout the state of Ohio. UC can join a division with UK, Vandy and TN all within reasonable driving distance. UC would be an outlier in that it is not a huge land grant University (though neither is Vandy), but there are a lot of other positives.

Everything you say makes sense, but I wonder how the average SEC fan would feel about their conference heading into a northern state.

I do, however, think the SEC has better options than UC - if they can get them to bite. Oklahoma, NC State are two off the top of my head.

To respond to another poster, the SEC isn't the academic slouch everyone makes it out to be. WVU would be the laggard in that conference.

Most of the schools in the SEC are ranked above UC. We all know Vanderbilt is a prestigious school at #17 by USNews. Florida is ranked highly at #49, and A&M at #69, is one of the wealthiest schools in the country and a research powerhouse. Georgia is #60, Alabama, #89, Tennessee #101, USC, #112. UC (#135) is just behind UK (#119) and Arkansas (#128), on par with LSU (#135) and ahead of Miss State (#142) and Ole Miss (#150).

I do like to dream of what a kick in the nuts it would be to O$U in the impossibly unlikely event UC were invited to the SEC. Wouldn't that be something!
 
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2014 02:06 PM by BearcatsUC.)
07-07-2014 02:04 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #22
RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 02:04 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 12:39 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 11:15 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  I was taking a look at the SEC board to see what they talk about and found this thread:

http://www.csnbbs.com/thread-639096.html

I was quite surprised by the number of folks who thought UC would be a great addition:

- Rich recruiting area
- Great potential TV audience, and
- A burr in the Buckeye's backside 03-lmfao

Actually, UC to the SEC makes more sense than to the Big12. Not wanting to start some big debate, just surprised to see the discussion. UC is a great addition to any P5 conference and it's coming - it's just a matter of time.

I made a few of the same points about UC selling themselves to the SEC right after Louisville was taken by the ACC (even went so far as to write Whit). There is a ton of logic to it. They get into the 6th most populous state, in the heart of big ten country, in one of the 2 Big Time recruiting states they don't have a presence in (Cali being the other). Any SEC Network immediately is going to be shown throughout the state of Ohio. UC can join a division with UK, Vandy and TN all within reasonable driving distance. UC would be an outlier in that it is not a huge land grant University (though neither is Vandy), but there are a lot of other positives.

Everything you say makes sense, but I wonder how the average SEC fan would feel about their conference heading into a northern state.

I do, however, think the SEC has better options than UC - if they can get them to bite. Oklahoma, NC State are two off the top of my head.

To respond to another poster, the SEC isn't the academic slouch everyone makes it out to be. WVU would be the laggard in that conference.

Most of the schools in the SEC are ranked above UC. We all know Vanderbilt is a prestigious school at #17 by USNews. Florida is ranked highly at #49, and A&M at #69, is one of the wealthiest schools in the country and a research powerhouse. Georgia is #60, Alabama, #89, Tennessee #101, USC, #112. UC (#135) is just behind UK (#119) and Arkansas (#128), on par with LSU (#135) and ahead of Miss State (#142) and Ole Miss (#150).

I do like to dream of what a kick in the nuts it would be to O$U in the impossibly unlikely event UC were invited to the SEC. Wouldn't that be something!

Average SEC fan would look down at us, but they don't make the decisions. ACC and Big 12 have a GOR, don't know how you get out of that?
 
07-07-2014 02:43 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #23
RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 01:44 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 01:27 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  Kentucky already bleeds into Ohio, so adding Cincinnati wouldn't give them a great deal of value when compared to some other programs on the table. It makes sense for the SEC to move up the east coast since they've already went as far west as they have.

Unless one or both of the Oklahoma schools becomes available then Cincinnati and ECU are their best selections if the SEC Network needs more viewers in large states in the border of their footprint. While Kentucky does bleed into the Cincinnati metro area they are not that visible north of the river. I also believe their fan base in this region is mostly rooted in UK basketball, not UK football.

UC could get the SEC into most of Ohio including large cities like Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus, Toledo, and Cleveland.

Ohio and North Carolina have large populations.
 
07-07-2014 02:49 PM
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eroc Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 02:43 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Average SEC fan would look down at us, but they don't make the decisions. ACC and Big 12 have a GOR, don't know how you get out of that?

i'm sure that this has been posted before but FYI, just one persons opinion and a lot of "if's":

Quote:Myth of the Big 12's Grant of rights

3:36p ETPosted by Jason Hutzler

At the end of the day, the liquidated damages clause is essentially an estimate by the parties of the expectant damages in the case of a breach. The liquidated damage clause cannot be used to punish the breaching party, but is used to indemnify the non-breaching party. An exit fee provision is a liquidated damage clause. Because it cannot be used to punish, they are often negotiated down from the stated fee.

Contracts that don't have a liquidated damage clause have two remedies available to the non-breaching party; specific performance and compensatory damages. Contract law enforces the expectancy interests between contracting parties, providing redress for parties who fail to receive the benefit of their bargain. However, courts rarely use specific performance as a remedy, especially in an instance when compensatory damages are easily calculated.

A grant of rights is a contract between each individual school and the conference pledging the school's media rights to conference for a number of year. Like all contracts, it can be broken. School X, member of Conference A who has granted its media rights to Conference A, thinks it can make more money in Conference B. So School X leaves Conference A for Conference B placing its media rights in Conference B. Now School X's games will be distributed by both confernces. At this point School X has breached the grant of rights agreement, Conference A will sue School X over the media rights under the grant of rights agreement.

Conference A would love to force School X to leave its media rights with Conference A, requesting a court require specific performance of the grant of rights. This is the threat of the grant of rights, the tie that binds so to speak. If a court were to elect the specific performance remedy then School X of course provides no value to Conference B. However, because specific performance is often difficult to enforce and requires more of the court's resources most courts rarely ever use this remedy.

Courts are even less inclined to use it when there is an easy way to calculate damages. The resulting damages from a breach of grant of rights are easily calcualable. There is no reason to believe that a court would require specific performance in a suit over a breach of a grant of rights.
The court is going to look at the value and duration of the media rights deal between Conference A and the networks. Then it will look at the duration of the grant of rights by School X to Conference A. Is the media rights deal worth less for the remainder of the grant of rights. If it is then this is the measure of damages School X must pay Conference A. My premise is that the networks have never reduced their payout to an existing contract, and there is no evidence they will going forward.

In 2003, the Big East is raided for two of its name brand schools, and a regionally significant school. The Big East added some lesser brands, and their media partners did not reduce their ongoing media deal. 2010, the Big 12 lost 2 schools in Colorado and Nebraska, did not replace those schools, and the Big 12 lost a significant amount of content (1/6th) in football and basketball. The Big 12's media partners did not reduce the payout on existing contracts but actually negotiated for more money on an expiring one. 2011, Texas A&M and Missouri left, the Big 12 replaced them with less valuable TV properties in TCU and WVU, and neither ESPN or FOX required a reduction in the payout to the Big 12. 2012, Maryland leaves the ACC for the Big 10, ACC replaces them with a less valuable media property. Not a single word is mentioned about a reduced payout for the ACC.

Networks, and one specifically, won't reduce the amount they pay to the conferences because it would violate their fiduciary duties to the conferences. Because one network (ESPN) has a hand in every league's media deal (except new Big East if it even exists) it can't in good faith pay one league more for raiding one league, then reducing its payout to league that was raided.

Because there is no evidence there would be a reduced payout to the league, the damages calculation is simple. The media deal for Conference A remains unchanged despite School X leaving, therefore there would be no damages for breach of grant of rights. The Big 12 grant of rights runs concurrently to media deals. So unless the networks change their strategy and go against precedent and start reducing the payouts to leagues, the only thing that binds these schools is money. Once the SEC starts its network there will be a new conference shuffle, and the Big 12 is still vulnerable.

http://msn.foxsports.com/college-footbal...hts-010313
 
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2014 03:29 PM by eroc.)
07-07-2014 03:26 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #25
RE: If the SEC did expand again...
Thanks Eroc. Good article. Did the SEC just have a meeting with ESPN execs last week?
 
07-07-2014 03:38 PM
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Cali_Cat Offline
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Post: #26
RE: If the SEC did expand again...
SEC Pecking order: Texas, Oklahoma, entire ACC, remaining Big 12, ECU, Cincinnati
 
07-07-2014 03:50 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 03:50 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  SEC Pecking order: Texas, Oklahoma, entire ACC, remaining Big 12, ECU, Cincinnati

Yeah BC, Cuse, Pitt, ISU, KState, are all on speed dial. 03-lmfao
 
07-07-2014 04:12 PM
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Cali_Cat Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 04:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 03:50 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  SEC Pecking order: Texas, Oklahoma, entire ACC, remaining Big 12, ECU, Cincinnati

Yeah BC, Cuse, Pitt, ISU, KState, are all on speed dial. 03-lmfao

They aren't likely either which illustrates my points about UC's chances....07-coffee3
 
07-07-2014 04:38 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 04:38 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 04:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 03:50 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  SEC Pecking order: Texas, Oklahoma, entire ACC, remaining Big 12, ECU, Cincinnati

Yeah BC, Cuse, Pitt, ISU, KState, are all on speed dial. 03-lmfao

They aren't likely either which illustrates my points about UC's chances....07-coffee3

I am sure you called the Rutgers/Maryland to the BIG, yes? You have no idea what the SEC is planning, neither do I. None of us were at the meeting with the SEC and ESPN relative to their
network discussions either.
 
07-07-2014 04:47 PM
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Topkat Offline
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Post: #30
RE: If the SEC did expand again...
I'm not sure if or why espn would be interested in raiding the acc for the sec. I guess it would come down to whether sharing 50% of the profit (as espn will do with the sec network) would be greater than the profit they make off the acc tv contract. Either way, I think it would open a whole can of worms if acc schools started bailing for the sec.

In any event, espn has seemed bent on propping up the acc when they saw the fox/big 10 partnership eyeing east and south.

Who knows, but the idea of espn partnering with other leagues can't sit well with the Big 10, Big 12 and PAC knowing they (espn) own the rights to televise the major Bowl games, I believe.
 
07-07-2014 05:10 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 01:12 PM)rosewater Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 12:53 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  SEC games already air in Cincinnati (on channel 64) and Kentucky has already pillaged Cincinnati for the top recruits...explain why UC makes any sense for the SEC...

Kentucky has had success in recruiting Ohio for 2 years. That is it. Remember, they are not getting the top recruits, only Big Ten leftovers to a large extent. After Stoops begins to tank, this will change. In addition, more 4 and 5 stars will gladly play in Sec east schools with 4 nearby games: Tenn, Ky, Vandy, and Cincy.

Yeah just to follow up on that, Stoops grew up in Ohio and his dad was a coach on his high school team at Youngstown Mooney. With his contacts, it's not shocking that UK has had some success recruiting in Ohio. What happens when he either gets fired or (to be open minded about this) takes a better job is the bigger question. And it's not like UK is the only SEC school that would like to get a bigger slice of the Ohio pie.

One other thing that I never see mentioned but I believe has to be a factor is that recruiting goes beyond athletes. Every school wants more student applications (for which they charge a fee) and many would love to increase their enrollment (mo money). For those that don't need more enrollment, the increased competition should yield a "better" student body (and higher tuition) even if the enrollment stays the same. And don't forget the surcharge on out-of-state students. You've got to at least have heard of a school before deciding you want to go there or to consider it. The bottom line is increased visibility tends to lift all boats - that's a huge reason why schools place so much emphasis on sports that get coverage in general.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2014 05:37 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
07-07-2014 05:23 PM
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RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 03:50 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  SEC Pecking order: Texas, Oklahoma, entire ACC, remaining Big 12, ECU, Cincinnati

you are clueless on all things UC I see.....you sure you are a real Bearcat fan?

You aren't JML reborn are you...that dbag was banned for contributing nothing and he hated UC for taking their coach.
 
07-07-2014 07:26 PM
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RE: If the SEC did expand again...
Pretty funny that as I read this there is a banner ad for uk football tickets on bearcat banter for some reason.
 
07-07-2014 08:12 PM
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mptnstr@44 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 03:50 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  SEC Pecking order: Texas, Oklahoma, entire ACC, remaining Big 12, ECU, Cincinnati

Exactly. The SEC can pick and chose pretty much any school they want. Look how easy A&M and Mizzou went.

If the SEC offers to any school just about any school would go. UC is so far down on their list it isn't funny.

Please stop the UC to the SEC talk. It will happen when pigs fly.
 
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2014 08:20 PM by mptnstr@44.)
07-07-2014 08:19 PM
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Post: #35
RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 08:19 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 03:50 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  SEC Pecking order: Texas, Oklahoma, entire ACC, remaining Big 12, ECU, Cincinnati

Exactly. The SEC can pick and chose pretty much any school they want. Look how easy A&M and Mizzou went.

If the SEC offers to any school just about any school would go. UC is so far down on their list it isn't funny.

Please stop the UC to the SEC talk. It will happen when pigs fly.

Finally a good post from a fellow UC fan!!! 04-cheers
 
07-07-2014 08:22 PM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 08:22 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 08:19 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 03:50 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  SEC Pecking order: Texas, Oklahoma, entire ACC, remaining Big 12, ECU, Cincinnati

Exactly. The SEC can pick and chose pretty much any school they want. Look how easy A&M and Mizzou went.

If the SEC offers to any school just about any school would go. UC is so far down on their list it isn't funny.

Please stop the UC to the SEC talk. It will happen when pigs fly.

Finally a good post from a fellow UC fan!!! 04-cheers

you might get more good posts if you would stop ripping on UC and saying things like our facilities are sub par in the main board...just sayin'
 
07-07-2014 08:35 PM
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BeerCat Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 08:35 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 08:22 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 08:19 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 03:50 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  SEC Pecking order: Texas, Oklahoma, entire ACC, remaining Big 12, ECU, Cincinnati

Exactly. The SEC can pick and chose pretty much any school they want. Look how easy A&M and Mizzou went.

If the SEC offers to any school just about any school would go. UC is so far down on their list it isn't funny.

Please stop the UC to the SEC talk. It will happen when pigs fly.

Finally a good post from a fellow UC fan!!! 04-cheers

you might get more good posts if you would stop ripping on UC and saying things like our facilities are sub par in the main board...just sayin'

I think this is a silent majority situation. I think most people realize there is zero chance that uc gets into the sec. Is there some logic for it to happen? Sure, but that is only if you leave out the only determining factor: money. Uc does not have it. Tradition, recruiting area, tv market, academics, geography do not matter. Money matters and they have very little of it.
 
07-07-2014 08:45 PM
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Post: #38
RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 08:19 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 03:50 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  SEC Pecking order: Texas, Oklahoma, entire ACC, remaining Big 12, ECU, Cincinnati

Exactly. The SEC can pick and chose pretty much any school they want. Look how easy A&M and Mizzou went.

If the SEC offers to any school just about any school would go. UC is so far down on their list it isn't funny.

Please stop the UC to the SEC talk. It will happen when pigs fly.

Please stop with supressing discussion. This thread was a reference to
a NON UC bbs thread. not a WAG or a post by a UC fan. It's interesting
what SEC and other fans think of UC's relignment potential.
 
07-07-2014 09:06 PM
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Post: #39
RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 08:45 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 08:35 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 08:22 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 08:19 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 03:50 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  SEC Pecking order: Texas, Oklahoma, entire ACC, remaining Big 12, ECU, Cincinnati

Exactly. The SEC can pick and chose pretty much any school they want. Look how easy A&M and Mizzou went.

If the SEC offers to any school just about any school would go. UC is so far down on their list it isn't funny.

Please stop the UC to the SEC talk. It will happen when pigs fly.

Finally a good post from a fellow UC fan!!! 04-cheers

you might get more good posts if you would stop ripping on UC and saying things like our facilities are sub par in the main board...just sayin'

I think this is a silent majority situation. I think most people realize there is zero chance that uc gets into the sec. Is there some logic for it to happen? Sure, but that is only if you leave out the only determining factor: money. Uc does not have it. Tradition, recruiting area, tv market, academics, geography do not matter. Money matters and they have very little of it.

As one of the board's apparent co-experts (along with Cali_Cat) on this matter, perhaps you can explain this to me. As I understand it, sure it's about money, but it's not about how much you bring that you already have. You don't share your current wealth, it's about how much you can help the rest of the conference earn going forward. There might be an entrance fee of some sort but the conference will finance that if you are helping them earn money.

A conference is like a business. A company (or conference) adds employees (or universities) to help them make more than they would without adding that person (or university). But the conference/company doesn't get a portion of the person/University's current wealth. So a conference isn't looking to simply add the richest university to their organization any more than a company simply looks to hire the richest person. It's all about how much they can help you earn together going forward. That means media contracts, post-season revenue, location (travel costs and time for all programs, etc.), attendance appeal, and the associated benefits that come from enhancing visibilty especially in a new market, etc. - basically all things you said "do(es) not matter".
 
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2014 10:29 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
07-07-2014 09:37 PM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again...
(07-07-2014 08:19 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(07-07-2014 03:50 PM)Cali_Cat Wrote:  SEC Pecking order: Texas, Oklahoma, entire ACC, remaining Big 12, ECU, Cincinnati

Exactly. The SEC can pick and chose pretty much any school they want. Look how easy A&M and Mizzou went.

If the SEC offers to any school just about any school would go. UC is so far down on their list it isn't funny.

Please stop the UC to the SEC talk. It will happen when pigs fly.

All things being what they are, I think UC to the SEC has more legs than UC to the Big Ten... I'd place the odds at "Slim to None," but still somewhere ahead of the Big Ten discussions.

But there is a chance...


 
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2014 09:44 PM by BearcatJerry.)
07-07-2014 09:41 PM
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