(08-07-2015 07:22 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Just re read through this. I'm sick of us being the dumb country. In last nights debate was anything like this brought up? Hell no! Let's argue about abortion and political correctness. We are so screwed. Fixing our tax code is a bipartisan deal but it's going to have to come from the people not the politicians.

On the subject of fixing our tax code, here is an interesting fact or two.

Of the 34 member countries of the OECD (basically, the developed counrties) 15 have zero estate/inheritance tax--Australia, Austria, Canada, Estonia, Hungary, Israel, Luxembourg, Mexico, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Serbia, Slovenia, Slovak Republic, Sweden.

Also, 13 countries have repealed their estate taxes since 2001 (some duplicative from the list above)--Macau, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Sweden, Russia, Hong Kong, Hungary, Singapore, Austria, Lichtenstein, Brunei, Czech Republic, Norway.

The average estate tax rate for all of OECD is 15%, the US rate is 40%.

(07-07-2014 08:03 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Thanks for the reply, but I'm not sure we can ever beat someone else in this arena. Ireland or the Cayman Islands will never have to support a military. These corporations enjoy all of the fruits of the harvest but don't want to toil with the weeding and upkeep. Let's say we go down to 20%. They will go down to 12.5%. Heck a Caribbean Island could go close to zero. 3% is better than no percent. We can't win an asymmetrical tax battle. Both sides should be able to solve this problem bur I'll be damned if I can find a glimmer of hope anywhere. I have absolutely zero confidence in our politicians in coming up with an equitable solution.

They can't go to zero because they need money to operate.

(11-13-2015 05:13 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-07-2015 07:22 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Just re read through this. I'm sick of us being the dumb country. In last nights debate was anything like this brought up? Hell no! Let's argue about abortion and political correctness. We are so screwed. Fixing our tax code is a bipartisan deal but it's going to have to come from the people not the politicians.

On the subject of fixing our tax code, here is an interesting fact or two.

Of the 34 member countries of the OECD (basically, the developed counrties) 15 have zero estate/inheritance tax--Australia, Austria, Canada, Estonia, Hungary, Israel, Luxembourg, Mexico, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Serbia, Slovenia, Slovak Republic, Sweden.

Also, 13 countries have repealed their estate taxes since 2001 (some duplicative from the list above)--Macau, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Sweden, Russia, Hong Kong, Hungary, Singapore, Austria, Lichtenstein, Brunei, Czech Republic, Norway.

The average estate tax rate for all of OECD is 15%, the US rate is 40%.

the siphon to nowhere.....

(07-07-2014 08:27 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-07-2014 08:03 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Thanks for the reply, but I'm not sure we can ever beat someone else in this arena. ... We can't win an asymmetrical tax battle.

If we can't, then stick a fork in us. And who gets hurt worst are not large corporations, but the middle class who lose their jobs in the process. Just like what has been going on.

Quote:Both sides should be able to solve this problem but I'll be damned if I can find a glimmer of hope anywhere. I have absolutely zero confidence in our politicians in coming up with an equitable solution.

That's because there isn't a solution that meets the left's ideas of fair and equitable. We can make US corporations pay more or less. Short of sending in the Marines, we can't make an Irish corporation pay more or less. And if our US corporation has to compete with that Irish corporation in world markets, it's going to lose, and that spells disaster for our economy.

As far as needing the corporate tax to cover our military, two things: 1) the corporate tax makes up a tiny part of our total tax revenues, look at the numbers yourself and you'll probably be surprised just how small, and 2) most of the governments in Europe actually spend substantially more as a percent of GDP that we do, but they have lower tax rates.

Mach, instead of looking at it solely from the point of view of the government or everyone else, why not take a look at it from the corporation's point of view. To do business in the US, my labor costs are higher and my regulatory and administrative costs are higher. If my tax rate is 39% (which it is with state taxes included) and my competitor's is 20% because he's foreign, how do I compete? Tariffs are not the answer, by the way. Tariffs may or may not help in the US market, but they do absolutely nothing to help with worldwide sales, and in many cases hurt. Countries who invert are not being unpatriotic, if it's the only way they can afford to keep doing business here and hiring US workers. And for many, that's the impact.

What can we do? Consumption tax. That's how everybody else does it. Really no other possible answer.

Exactly. Companies are leaving to stay competitive...not to dodge taxes. Taxes are a part of overhead and passed on to the consumer. Consumption taxes eliminate the embedded corporate taxes in prices of goods and services that individuals pay. This is why only individual really pay taxes.

lol, I bet Obama's gonna be pissed.

Pfizer and Allergan merge in $160B tax inversion deal


snippet:

Quote:U.S. pharmaceutical giant Pfizer(PFE) and Irish rival Allergan(AGN) Monday announced a record-breaking $160-billion merger, the largest in health-care industry history and the biggest yet using a controversial tax-saving strategy.

The deal terms call for the companies to combine under Allergan plc, which will be renamed Pfizer plc and trade on the New York Stock Exchange under the PFE ticker. The new combination would retain Allergan's legal and tax domicile in Ireland. Pfizer would have its global operational headquarters in New York and its principal executive offices in Ireland.

The symptoms of a broken tax system.

But, nuking our tax code is like cutting off a limb as treatment for a cold.

We need a few common sense reforms.

(11-23-2015 10:38 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The symptoms of a broken tax system.

But, nuking our tax code is like cutting off a limb as treatment for a cold.

We need a few common sense reforms.

You'd think instead of just losing the tax revenue the govt would adjust the tax rate, etc.

(11-23-2015 10:59 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 10:38 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The symptoms of a broken tax system.

But, nuking our tax code is like cutting off a limb as treatment for a cold.

We need a few common sense reforms.

You'd think instead of just losing the tax revenue the govt would adjust the tax rate, etc.

You'd think.


I guess that's the symptom of corruption.

(11-23-2015 10:38 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The symptoms of a broken tax system.

But, nuking our tax code is like cutting off a limb as treatment for a cold.

We need a few common sense reforms.

I don't know what you mean by 'nuking' it, but the reality is that consumers pay all corporate taxes... as it is merely an expense of being in business so why bother with them? Replace it with a national sales tax/vat of sorts. That encourages businesses to be here and 'discourages' spending somewhat, which our economy could use. If you do a pre-fund, it also encourages savings by the poor and middle class (basically guaranteeing them a rate of return equal to the tax rate) which is far superior to the return on investment dollars, which nominally reduces the wealth gap.

Because of this, we can get rid of a lot of the 'junk' in the tax code... while still leaving the essential pieces in place.... a progressive income tax rate. I'd still lower and flatten it and raise the VAT to compensate

(11-23-2015 12:14 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 10:38 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The symptoms of a broken tax system.

But, nuking our tax code is like cutting off a limb as treatment for a cold.

We need a few common sense reforms.

I don't know what you mean by 'nuking' it, but the reality is that consumers pay all corporate taxes... as it is merely an expense of being in business so why bother with them? Replace it with a national sales tax/vat of sorts. That encourages businesses to be here and 'discourages' spending somewhat, which our economy could use. If you do a pre-fund, it also encourages savings by the poor and middle class (basically guaranteeing them a rate of return equal to the tax rate) which is far superior to the return on investment dollars, which nominally reduces the wealth gap.

Because of this, we can get rid of a lot of the 'junk' in the tax code... while still leaving the essential pieces in place.... a progressive income tax rate. I'd still lower and flatten it and raise the VAT to compensate

It makes total sense.

However, it also makes total sense for those in Washington to keep exactly what we have in place as the current system allows them to pick tax winners and losers based on who comes up with the most money via lobbying.

Those in power now make a whole lot more campaign cash for the promise of special tax breaks in the tax code than leveling the playing field...........

Guess which tax method those in power are choosing right now.........

Icahn predicted Pfizer two weeks ago. The dominoes are falling and we still sit with our thumbs up our collective a**es

What's worse. Shumer and Ryan totally get it. Both sides have idiots that won't let them reach a solution.

(11-23-2015 06:45 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  What's worse. Shumer and Ryan totally get it. Both sides have idiots that won't let them reach a solution.

The Corporate Tax Rate in Ireland stands at 12.50 percent
United States Corporate Tax Rate stands at 39 percent.

Tell me if you think Schumer would go down to 12-15 percent because I don't think too many r's would oppose that. So please stop pretending the crazies on the right are the ones responsible for these inversion losses.

ICAHN's words not mine BIE.

(11-23-2015 12:14 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-23-2015 10:38 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The symptoms of a broken tax system.

But, nuking our tax code is like cutting off a limb as treatment for a cold.

We need a few common sense reforms.

I don't know what you mean by 'nuking' it, but the reality is that consumers pay all corporate taxes... as it is merely an expense of being in business so why bother with them? Replace it with a national sales tax/vat of sorts. That encourages businesses to be here and 'discourages' spending somewhat, which our economy could use. If you do a pre-fund, it also encourages savings by the poor and middle class (basically guaranteeing them a rate of return equal to the tax rate) which is far superior to the return on investment dollars, which nominally reduces the wealth gap.

Because of this, we can get rid of a lot of the 'junk' in the tax code... while still leaving the essential pieces in place.... a progressive income tax rate. I'd still lower and flatten it and raise the VAT to compensate

The truth is that out system with proper rates is more effective. The VAT model forces consumers to make the conscious decision not to spend. That's a terrible pressure to apply to a system that is built on consumer spending. Putting the pressure on the business insulates the consumer to some extent. That's invaluable.

A 12.5% rate for businesses under 5 million and 25% for those over is a great starting point.

In business, unlike personal taxes, making a company too big to be tax efficient is a good thing.

(11-23-2015 10:38 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The symptoms of a broken tax system.

But, nuking our tax code is like cutting off a limb as treatment for a cold.

We need a few common sense reforms.

If you need to tell me they're "common sense reforms", those reforms are anything but common sense.

(11-23-2015 09:32 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  ICAHN's words not mine BIE.

You said

"What's worse. Shumer and Ryan totally get it. Both sides have idiots that won't let them reach a solution."

You did not quote and, even if you were quoting, you are clearly agreeing with him and promoting that idea.

Fair Enough BIE.

Tax savings are what drove this deal. If this doesn't get the admin's attention then nothing will. They'l probably try to make it harder to do these type deals instead of dealing with the underlying issue though.

(11-24-2015 08:04 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Fair Enough BIE.

So then let's address your feelings and not use someone else as a barrier..

Do you support dropping our Corporate tax rate to 12%. How many republicans do you think would oppose that and how many democrats would support it?