(07-05-2014 03:17 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Just passing along the rumorville, thats all. It could have been more directed toward if UMass was going to join or any other eastern expansion partners like JMU. But I think TV like this too as it protects them. CBS Sports was the one floating this out there mainly. Many conferences have this now GoR now - Big Ten, Big 12, ACC, etc. it would be for the length of the TV contract only. These Grant of Rights also give ESPN the power to do what they want at whatever level it specifies. For instance the Big Ten needed it for the Big Ten Network but the Big XII GoR does not include Tier 3.

Did the SEC need one for the Raycom buyout and to launch the SEC Network? Its not always just about keeping membership together.

I'd guess that the MAC was interested in a GoR for UMass and JMU if that would have happened but it was also rumored that schools like Northern Illinois was also pushing it because they would not want to be left in a league without Toledo, Ohio, etc.

ESPN might also request this for all digital rights at tier 3 for their new WatchESPN Conference Networks they are beginning to tinker with and I think will go beyond just reorganizing the WatchESPN app. It'd be ala-carte conference programming for both cable broadcasts and ESPN3.

Notice how both the MAC and ACC have these new channels beginning to form on WatchESPN but the American Conference was specifically excluded from that new arrangement and they don't have a GoR and all their schools are looking for an exit? MAC, ACC, and AAC are all ESPN properties so what else explains why the AAC was specifically ruled out?

Good post, a few points:

1) I don't know if we can assume anything about the GOR at this point. There was one article out about it last year as something the MAC was considering. It could have been a factor driving UMass to not decide to accept a MAC full membership or something that was scuttled early in the TV negotiation process.

2) Since this is a look in with ESPN its very likely that whatever is negotiated is going to be exclusively with ESPN unless there is a clause built in where ESPN can sell off rights that it doesn't want (basketball) as part of extension. The build up of Watch ESPN seems to indicate that they are handing third tier rights over to ESPN again.

3) One of the best things about the MAC is that with all the redundant markets it can easily survive a raid, in fact come out better for it. Imagine if NIU and Toledo left the MAC...the MAC could respond by adding Illinois St and JMU. It doesn't really impact football too much in the MAC as other programs will step up to fill the void and in basketball the conference may be better trading out NIU for Illinois St plus hurting the MVC a rival in recruting who would have to reload with Oral Roberts or some other weak basketball school.

The only thing we do know is they are planning on wrapping up the TV deal by the beginning of the season. 18 months of rumors about this and they are finally making a move to get this done. I wouldn't be surprised that they do not announce the money for the next deal (in accordance with MAC tradition).

Having the redundancy in schools isn't all bad. For instance the basketball tournament in Cleveland would not be nearly so successful if it wasn't for the critical mass of schools not far away from Cleveland (plus all the alumni that are nearby). While it does not yet seem to help football so much it has not been a bad thing for that tournament.

(07-05-2014 09:30 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  Having the redundancy in schools isn't all bad. For instance the basketball tournament in Cleveland would not be nearly so successful if it wasn't for the critical mass of schools not far away from Cleveland (plus all the alumni that are nearby). While it does not yet seem to help football so much it has not been a bad thing for that tournament.

I think the tight footprint is an advantage in most ways.
Maybe adding four football only schools would help recruiting .
While adding to the footprint or markets in a cheap way.

Thinking of decent close states for recruiting.

APP ST
WMU
JUST
ARK ST

would have worked at one time they possibly could have been all sports as well.

Delaware in the East and three Southern schools like Missouri St and JMU .

(07-04-2014 11:40 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(07-04-2014 05:39 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  How detrimental weekday night games are on attendance really depends on the school and timing. Late year games for a team with a poor record would be a bad draw but they would be a bad draw even on a weekend. Even worse if it is late in the year with really bad weather. However some schools make it work.

This. NIU nearly sold out a weeknight game against Ball State, Miami drew no more than 3,000 butts in the seats against Buffalo. If Miami becomes a consistent winner again we'll draw a decent crowd for MACtion against OU or another decent team.

The bottom line is that the MAC isn't alone in attendance problems overall, especially when it's highlighted on national television. Washington State, a P5 bowl team, barely drew 20,000 for a weeknight game against a ranked Arizona State team. The only reason people notice the MAC is because we're known for MACtion game, people wouldn't really care if we were always shoved to ESPN3 for November Saturday games.

Black Friday games have been issue for us. Weather can be a factor. Having ranked NIU one week after Western Michigan, you thing we'd have another over 20k attendance day.

But we rely heavily on walk-up sales and would you know it. It was the World Series Boston Red Sox celebration day with duck boats and trophy, so we had less than half the attendance from #23 NIU.

Had that not happen, we'd probably would have average 17k. This year we should be near the top of the MAC with close to 20k average, barring any horrendous weather conditions.

Quote:South Alabama, the other program notified by the NCAA after the 2012 season for failing to meet attendance requirements, is averaging 16,385 fans with two home games left to play.

Here's how the final numbers break down:


2013 attendance
- Sept. 7 vs. Maine: 15,624
- Sept. 21 vs. Vanderbilt: 16,419
- Oct. 12 vs. Miami: 21,707
- Oct. 26 vs. Western Michigan: 20,571
- Nov. 2 vs. Northern Illinois: 10,061
- Nov. 16 vs. Akron: 10,599
---------------

Total attendance: 94,981
Avg. attendance: 15,830.2

(07-06-2014 09:17 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(07-04-2014 11:40 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(07-04-2014 05:39 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  How detrimental weekday night games are on attendance really depends on the school and timing. Late year games for a team with a poor record would be a bad draw but they would be a bad draw even on a weekend. Even worse if it is late in the year with really bad weather. However some schools make it work.

This. NIU nearly sold out a weeknight game against Ball State, Miami drew no more than 3,000 butts in the seats against Buffalo. If Miami becomes a consistent winner again we'll draw a decent crowd for MACtion against OU or another decent team.

The bottom line is that the MAC isn't alone in attendance problems overall, especially when it's highlighted on national television. Washington State, a P5 bowl team, barely drew 20,000 for a weeknight game against a ranked Arizona State team. The only reason people notice the MAC is because we're known for MACtion game, people wouldn't really care if we were always shoved to ESPN3 for November Saturday games.

Black Friday games have been issue for us. Weather can be a factor. Having ranked NIU one week after Western Michigan, you thing we'd have another over 20k attendance day.

But we rely heavily on walk-up sales and would you know it. It was the World Series Boston Red Sox celebration day with duck boats and trophy, so we had less than half the attendance from #23 NIU.

Had that not happen, we'd probably would have average 17k. This year we should be near the top of the MAC with close to 20k average, barring any horrendous weather conditions.

Quote:South Alabama, the other program notified by the NCAA after the 2012 season for failing to meet attendance requirements, is averaging 16,385 fans with two home games left to play.

Here's how the final numbers break down:


2013 attendance
- Sept. 7 vs. Maine: 15,624
- Sept. 21 vs. Vanderbilt: 16,419
- Oct. 12 vs. Miami: 21,707
- Oct. 26 vs. Western Michigan: 20,571
- Nov. 2 vs. Northern Illinois: 10,061
- Nov. 16 vs. Akron: 10,599
---------------

Total attendance: 94,981
Avg. attendance: 15,830.2

USA has had inexcusable issues with counting. Unlike most schools, USA has been UNDER counting its real attendance due to repeated problems with the counters in the student sections. We're over 15k, and have been since day one. That includes two games over the last two years held under Hurricane/Tropical Storm warnings and one game where it was 40 degrees and pouring rain.

We've hopefully fixed the scanner problems. But I wouldn't worry about our attendance issues this year. We'll have three home games where we should draw north of 25,000 real butts in the seats (Mississippi State, Navy, and Troy). Hopefully, our schedule is set up to ensure late season interest as well, so long as we execute wins early in the year versus Kent, Ga Southern, Appy, and Idaho, which should provide us with 'something to play for' later in the season for our other home games.

USA seems to have good momentum. We had the same counting issues on campus. Wish you guys the best in the Sun Belt and the best in OOC play with G'dub.

(07-06-2014 10:49 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  USA seems to have good momentum. We had the same counting issues on campus. Wish you guys the best in the Sun Belt and the best in OOC play with G'dub.

Im curious to why UMass would get better crowds for Miami and Western Michigan over an SEC school, former New England rival Maine (didn't UNH draw 30k?), and ranked NIU?

Was it just a homecoming thing or something that drew more people?

(07-06-2014 12:33 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(07-06-2014 10:49 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  USA seems to have good momentum. We had the same counting issues on campus. Wish you guys the best in the Sun Belt and the best in OOC play with G'dub.

Im curious to why UMass would get better crowds for Miami and Western Michigan over an SEC school, former New England rival Maine (didn't UNH draw 30k?), and ranked NIU?

Was it just a homecoming thing or something that drew more people?

#23 NIU should have been over 20k as well, but it was the same day as the Red Sox Victory Parade for winning the World Series.

We have band day and home coming and will be promoting our mid-week ESPN game. Homecoming will be smaller this year as it will be at McGuirk on campus with a 17k permanent seat capacity.

Band day is a UMass tradition and great for marching band recruiting. Eastern Michigan gets band day at Gillette. Last year there were 70 high school bands. Don't know if it will happen, but heard we are shooting for 100 high school bands this year.

The benefit of the small footprint is it keeps costs low for Olympic Sports. This is never changing. To add far flung schools in the south or west would ruin that.

(07-06-2014 01:01 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  The benefit of the small footprint is it keeps costs low for Olympic Sports. This is never changing. To add far flung schools in the south or west would ruin that.

The only sport where it is a disadvantage is football recruiting. The MAC is a very top heavy conference in any given year where the upper schools look like Top 25 material while the lower schools look like they belong in FCS.

I would be OK with expanding in 2020 for App St and JMU with the idea of trying to get a bowl game in Virginia Beach against CUSA. I think after 5 years of toiling in the Sun Belt App is going to get sick of the travel.

MAC Bowls Future

Potato
Go Daddy
Virginia Beach
Boca Raton/Miami Beach
Bahamas/Poinsettia

+

Access Bowls (Cotton, Peach, Fiesta)
P5 ties (Detroit, Memphis, DC)

The MAC could make the game in Mobile the #1 bowl unless the champ is playing in an access game or upgrading to Memphis, Detroit, DC or whatever else P5 is open.

(07-06-2014 09:50 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(07-06-2014 09:17 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(07-04-2014 11:40 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(07-04-2014 05:39 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  How detrimental weekday night games are on attendance really depends on the school and timing. Late year games for a team with a poor record would be a bad draw but they would be a bad draw even on a weekend. Even worse if it is late in the year with really bad weather. However some schools make it work.

This. NIU nearly sold out a weeknight game against Ball State, Miami drew no more than 3,000 butts in the seats against Buffalo. If Miami becomes a consistent winner again we'll draw a decent crowd for MACtion against OU or another decent team.

The bottom line is that the MAC isn't alone in attendance problems overall, especially when it's highlighted on national television. Washington State, a P5 bowl team, barely drew 20,000 for a weeknight game against a ranked Arizona State team. The only reason people notice the MAC is because we're known for MACtion game, people wouldn't really care if we were always shoved to ESPN3 for November Saturday games.

Black Friday games have been issue for us. Weather can be a factor. Having ranked NIU one week after Western Michigan, you thing we'd have another over 20k attendance day.

But we rely heavily on walk-up sales and would you know it. It was the World Series Boston Red Sox celebration day with duck boats and trophy, so we had less than half the attendance from #23 NIU.

Had that not happen, we'd probably would have average 17k. This year we should be near the top of the MAC with close to 20k average, barring any horrendous weather conditions.

Quote:South Alabama, the other program notified by the NCAA after the 2012 season for failing to meet attendance requirements, is averaging 16,385 fans with two home games left to play.

Here's how the final numbers break down:


2013 attendance
- Sept. 7 vs. Maine: 15,624
- Sept. 21 vs. Vanderbilt: 16,419
- Oct. 12 vs. Miami: 21,707
- Oct. 26 vs. Western Michigan: 20,571
- Nov. 2 vs. Northern Illinois: 10,061
- Nov. 16 vs. Akron: 10,599
---------------

Total attendance: 94,981
Avg. attendance: 15,830.2

USA has had inexcusable issues with counting. Unlike most schools, USA has been UNDER counting its real attendance due to repeated problems with the counters in the student sections. We're over 15k, and have been since day one. That includes two games over the last two years held under Hurricane/Tropical Storm warnings and one game where it was 40 degrees and pouring rain.

We've hopefully fixed the scanner problems. But I wouldn't worry about our attendance issues this year. We'll have three home games where we should draw north of 25,000 real butts in the seats (Mississippi State, Navy, and Troy). Hopefully, our schedule is set up to ensure late season interest as well, so long as we execute wins early in the year versus Kent, Ga Southern, Appy, and Idaho, which should provide us with 'something to play for' later in the season for our other home games.

Other schools have this issue as well namely Ball State which other schools posters said that the announced crowd was noticeable smaller than the actual crowd. The Ball State guys posit that the problem is that the students are done by hand count.

(07-03-2014 11:55 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Issue with the MAC is the fan bases and mirroring the Big Ten footprint. Their students graduates wanted to go to big ten schools.

Wait, what? While OSU may be a safety school for some MiamiU applicants, its not among the schools being applied to for others ~ it certainly wasn't on mine.

Having tens of thousands crammed into a stadium watching pro forma students play football is one thing ... being crammed into a classroom with hundreds of fellow students watching a pro forma Instructor in the guise of a Teaching Assistant play teacher is something else entirely.

If we could play our big games against Toledo or Ball State on a Saturday our attendance would be helped, except we apparently need the exposure so we end up always playing them on a weeknight for TV purposes.

(07-02-2014 08:22 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  I like the way MAC schools brought in schools to protect them from realinement.
and yes MAC needs a bigger footprint, not keeping UMASS was a mistake,
UMASS was the only chance MAC had of getting Army.
ILLST & MissouriSt streatch conf out west & puts dakato's in reach
I would think Marshall might reconsider
there slew of BB onlies that would help
? why can't MAC sign tier 3 rights to B-10 network

100% No chance that Marshall would ever reconsider going back to the Mac. Why would we do that? Our road games are in places like Nashville, Norfolk, Miami, Charlotte, Boca Raton.....

Those are desirable destinations that we have lots of alumni in and is close travel for our fanbase. Not only that, we recruit those areas very hard. We rarely if ever recruit Mac area schools. The Mac was a good "short term" home for Marshall and Marshall was good for the Mac but we've moved on to bigger and better things. There is no way we would have been able to build the facilities we are building now had we stayed in the Mac. CUSA has been very good for us.

(07-06-2014 03:44 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(07-06-2014 01:01 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  The benefit of the small footprint is it keeps costs low for Olympic Sports. This is never changing. To add far flung schools in the south or west would ruin that.

The only sport where it is a disadvantage is football recruiting. The MAC is a very top heavy conference in any given year where the upper schools look like Top 25 material while the lower schools look like they belong in FCS.

I would be OK with expanding in 2020 for App St and JMU with the idea of trying to get a bowl game in Virginia Beach against CUSA. I think after 5 years of toiling in the Sun Belt App is going to get sick of the travel.

MAC Bowls Future

Potato
Go Daddy
Virginia Beach
Boca Raton/Miami Beach
Bahamas/Poinsettia

+

Access Bowls (Cotton, Peach, Fiesta)
P5 ties (Detroit, Memphis, DC)

The MAC could make the game in Mobile the #1 bowl unless the champ is playing in an access game or upgrading to Memphis, Detroit, DC or whatever else P5 is open.

Are you planning on building a stadium in Va Beach?