(06-25-2014 02:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 09:40 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  SMU is sold out. I'm glad we decreased the amount of seats and copied Duke.

Illustrating perfectly why our football stadium doesn't work. 38,000 in a shiny new 42,000 seat stadium looks great. 38,000 in a 62,500 seat stadium looks ok.

Before the east expansion of the Liberty Bowl, 38,000 looked huge in there.

Memphis drew some great crowds during the DeAngelo/Wimprine years. Not bad at all. We can do it again.

(06-26-2014 07:13 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 09:28 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 09:40 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  Here's how the AAC did last year (7 teams finished in the Top 100) and what some of the new teams did in their last year of CUSA Hoops.

3) Louisville 21,282
10) Memphis 16,121
40) UCONN 10,134
53) Cincinnati 8,567
88) Temple 5,963
95) SMU 5,653
96) UCF 5,298

See link for Top 100 plus attendance figures for all of the 340 or so Div I teams.
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...d/2014.pdf

Here's how the other 5 AAC Teams (including those coming over from CUSA) did last year (all finished outside the Top 100 in attendance)
Tulsa 4,528 (CUSA)
USF 4,406
ECU 4,434 (CUSA)
Houston 3,782
Tulane 1,677 (CUSA)

NOTE: Rutgers last year drew 4,425 in their one and only year in AAC as they now leave for the Big Ten, which, ironically, has lead the nation in hoop attendance for 38 straight seasons (13,534 fans per game).

A bit surprised by UConn's number. Next season we'll see this big jumps in Temple's, Houston's, Tulsa's and of course - SMU's numbers IMO.

UCONN's plays over half of their games in their 10,167 seat on-campus Gampell Pavilion. (Its a nice on-campus arena with all seats close to the floor but it obviously caps their attendance...especially when they play some of their biggest games of the year there, i.e. like last year: Florida, Louisville and SMU)





UCONN plays 8-9 games a year at the old Hartford Civic/XL Center in downtown Hartford. (Especially during holiday break when students aren't on campus, plus some non-conf and conf games...as thats where their largest and most of their boosters live...so they have to give them some local games to keep them happy).



Old Hartford Civic Center might be known to sold old timers as the former home of the NHL Hartford Whalers. (Think a minor league hockey team still plays there)



City of Hartford badly needs a new arena just for their community (outside of UCONN Hoops).

All the old school ESPN guys like Ley and Berman were bigtime Whalers season ticket holders. I'm thinking the Celtics used to play a game or two there as well back in the old Garden days.

(06-26-2014 07:13 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 09:28 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 09:40 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  Here's how the AAC did last year (7 teams finished in the Top 100) and what some of the new teams did in their last year of CUSA Hoops.

3) Louisville 21,282
10) Memphis 16,121
40) UCONN 10,134
53) Cincinnati 8,567
88) Temple 5,963
95) SMU 5,653
96) UCF 5,298

See link for Top 100 plus attendance figures for all of the 340 or so Div I teams.
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...d/2014.pdf

Here's how the other 5 AAC Teams (including those coming over from CUSA) did last year (all finished outside the Top 100 in attendance)
Tulsa 4,528 (CUSA)
USF 4,406
ECU 4,434 (CUSA)
Houston 3,782
Tulane 1,677 (CUSA)

NOTE: Rutgers last year drew 4,425 in their one and only year in AAC as they now leave for the Big Ten, which, ironically, has lead the nation in hoop attendance for 38 straight seasons (13,534 fans per game).

A bit surprised by UConn's number. Next season we'll see this big jumps in Temple's, Houston's, Tulsa's and of course - SMU's numbers IMO.

UCONN's plays over half of their games in their 10,167 seat on-campus Gampell Pavilion. (Its a nice on-campus arena with all seats close to the floor but it obviously caps their attendance...especially when they play some of their biggest games of the year there, i.e. like last year: Florida, Louisville and SMU)





UCONN plays 8-9 games a year at the old Hartford Civic/XL Center in downtown Hartford. (Especially during holiday break when students aren't on campus, plus some non-conf and conf games...as thats where their largest and most of their boosters live...so they have to give them some local games to keep them happy).



Old Hartford Civic Center might be known to sold old timers as the former home of the NHL Hartford Whalers. (Think a minor league hockey team still plays there)



City of Hartford badly needs a new arena just for their community (outside of UCONN Hoops).

Habs fan with an aunt in Meriden. There weren't more than 6,000 for some of those Whaler games I went to. Happy times.

(06-26-2014 10:52 AM)I_LUV_MEMPHISTIGERS Wrote:  

(06-26-2014 09:26 AM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(06-25-2014 02:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 09:40 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  SMU is sold out. I'm glad we decreased the amount of seats and copied Duke.

Illustrating perfectly why our football stadium doesn't work. 38,000 in a shiny new 42,000 seat stadium looks great. 38,000 in a 62,500 seat stadium looks ok.

Before the east expansion of the Liberty Bowl, 38,000 looked huge in there.

Memphis drew some great crowds during the DeAngelo/Wimprine years. Not bad at all. We can do it again.

By Deangelo's last season I believe the average attendance was somewhere in the 41k-42k range. If we we can start winning again and the fan base sees the commitment and support is there by the Bowen to maintain a winning program I'd think it's possible to start averaging 45+k.

The fans gotta believe that winning is an option...Memphis fans tend to be fickle, if the Grizzlies start losing their attendance will drop off dramatically, Just like the Tigers did in Football and Basketball through the years. I honestly don't know what it would take to create enough die hard fans to have high attendance in bad times.

(06-26-2014 11:37 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(06-26-2014 10:52 AM)I_LUV_MEMPHISTIGERS Wrote:  

(06-26-2014 09:26 AM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(06-25-2014 02:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 09:40 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  SMU is sold out. I'm glad we decreased the amount of seats and copied Duke.

Illustrating perfectly why our football stadium doesn't work. 38,000 in a shiny new 42,000 seat stadium looks great. 38,000 in a 62,500 seat stadium looks ok.

Before the east expansion of the Liberty Bowl, 38,000 looked huge in there.

Memphis drew some great crowds during the DeAngelo/Wimprine years. Not bad at all. We can do it again.

By Deangelo's last season I believe the average attendance was somewhere in the 41k-42k range. If we we can start winning again and the fan base sees the commitment and support is there by the Bowen to maintain a winning program I'd think it's possible to start averaging 45+k.

The fans gotta believe that winning is an option...Memphis fans tend to be fickle, if the Grizzlies start losing their attendance will drop off dramatically, Just like the Tigers did in Football and Basketball through the years. I honestly don't know what it would take to create enough die hard fans to have high attendance in bad times.

This is true anywhere, not just Memphis. Please show me an example of where I may be wrong.

(06-23-2014 10:15 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 09:05 AM)holyterror Wrote:  Over the past 4 years, home attendance for Tiger Basketball games has dropped by 647 people. In the same stretch, attendance for the Griz home games has increased by 2619. (and we all know that internet research is 100% reliable, right?) Anyway,with the tough economic times, there could be a correlation as people make tough choices with their disposable income.

That having been said, The Tigers are still highly ranked nationally. No worries.

I still don't believe there is a huge crossover between the fanbases.

I'd bet that it affects things, but only at the margins. I'd guess part of it is pricing and relative success. If I am in Memphis visiting family, I prefer to go to the Tigers games, but I won't turn down the Grizz. I think a lot of people of fans of both.

(06-24-2014 11:09 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 01:05 PM)OneShiningMoment Wrote:  how many seats are the students given in the lower and upper bowls?

Too many

I've actually sat in the student section relatively recently (2 years ago against 'Ville). My mom went back and was a Blue crew member, making us immediately the two oldest people in the section.

Blue crew was loud and solid, but that was against the Cards, so that is a big, big game.

(06-25-2014 08:14 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 09:40 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  SMU is sold out. I'm glad we decreased the amount of seats and copied Duke.

And projected top 10-15 next season. Don't think I've ever seen a program turn the corner so quickly.

SMU is balling out, good for them!

(06-25-2014 02:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 09:40 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  SMU is sold out. I'm glad we decreased the amount of seats and copied Duke.

Illustrating perfectly why our football stadium doesn't work. 38,000 in a shiny new 42,000 seat stadium looks great. 38,000 in a 62,500 seat stadium looks ok.

Supply/demand, I concur. A stadium that works as both 40-ish normally with expansion for the bowl would be great.

As always, me and geosnooker remain available to do the drawings, no calls yet, but I'll let you know if the studio gets a call

(06-26-2014 01:40 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 10:15 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 09:05 AM)holyterror Wrote:  Over the past 4 years, home attendance for Tiger Basketball games has dropped by 647 people. In the same stretch, attendance for the Griz home games has increased by 2619. (and we all know that internet research is 100% reliable, right?) Anyway,with the tough economic times, there could be a correlation as people make tough choices with their disposable income.

That having been said, The Tigers are still highly ranked nationally. No worries.

I still don't believe there is a huge crossover between the fanbases.

I'd bet that it affects things, but only at the margins. I'd guess part of it is pricing and relative success. If I am in Memphis visiting family, I prefer to go to the Tigers games, but I won't turn down the Grizz. I think a lot of people of fans of both.

(06-24-2014 11:09 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 01:05 PM)OneShiningMoment Wrote:  how many seats are the students given in the lower and upper bowls?

Too many

I've actually sat in the student section relatively recently (2 years ago against 'Ville). My mom went back and was a Blue crew member, making us immediately the two oldest people in the section.

Blue crew was loud and solid, but that was against the Cards, so that is a big, big game.

(06-25-2014 08:14 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 09:40 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  SMU is sold out. I'm glad we decreased the amount of seats and copied Duke.

And projected top 10-15 next season. Don't think I've ever seen a program turn the corner so quickly.

SMU is balling out, good for them!

(06-25-2014 02:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 09:40 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  SMU is sold out. I'm glad we decreased the amount of seats and copied Duke.

Illustrating perfectly why our football stadium doesn't work. 38,000 in a shiny new 42,000 seat stadium looks great. 38,000 in a 62,500 seat stadium looks ok.

Supply/demand, I concur. A stadium that works as both 40-ish normally with expansion for the bowl would be great.

As always, me and geosnooker remain available to do the drawings, no calls yet, but I'll let you know if the studio gets a call

That's why the 60,000 seat capacity hurts Tiger Football as there is never a real need to ever buy season tix (let alone donate $$ to the program for sideline seats)as single game Sideline seats are available for almost every home game.

A 40,000 seat stadium would force many to buy season fix for the first time (Limited sideline seating) which would bring in new $$$ (booster $$$ too as limited number of good seats will work the same as hoops), let alone provide a much better home field advantage.

You don't build or have capacity for a once in a 10-20 year great team and/or great talent...as you need to use supply/demand to your advantage EVERY year, especially when you don't have 10 plus wins a year.

Don't see how you can ever realistically judge much of anything about attendance until you start counting actual butts in the seats.

Too much fudging in that regard at most places.

If you satisfy yourself there is no need to do effective marketing to "actually" impact attendance, then it will continue to be contrived numbers rather than real numbers.

Most fans in attendance are aware that the numbers are inflated.

In my opinion.

(06-28-2014 09:35 PM)dan o Wrote:  Don't see how you can ever realistically judge much of anything about attendance until you start counting actual butts in the seats.

Too much fudging in that regard at most places.

If you satisfy yourself there is no need to do effective marketing to "actually" impact attendance, then it will continue to be contrived numbers rather than real numbers.

Most fans in attendance are aware that the numbers are inflated.

In my opinion.

do you count actual butts in the seats who paid for tickets or actual butts in seats who paid for tickets and those who got comp tix, or actual butts in seats who paid for tickets, who got comp tix, and students, faculty, and staff, or actual butts in seats who paid for tickets, who got comps, students, faculty, and staff, and media members and others who got in free on passes?

(06-28-2014 05:57 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(06-26-2014 01:40 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 10:15 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 09:05 AM)holyterror Wrote:  Over the past 4 years, home attendance for Tiger Basketball games has dropped by 647 people. In the same stretch, attendance for the Griz home games has increased by 2619. (and we all know that internet research is 100% reliable, right?) Anyway,with the tough economic times, there could be a correlation as people make tough choices with their disposable income.

That having been said, The Tigers are still highly ranked nationally. No worries.

I still don't believe there is a huge crossover between the fanbases.

I'd bet that it affects things, but only at the margins. I'd guess part of it is pricing and relative success. If I am in Memphis visiting family, I prefer to go to the Tigers games, but I won't turn down the Grizz. I think a lot of people of fans of both.

(06-24-2014 11:09 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(06-23-2014 01:05 PM)OneShiningMoment Wrote:  how many seats are the students given in the lower and upper bowls?

Too many

I've actually sat in the student section relatively recently (2 years ago against 'Ville). My mom went back and was a Blue crew member, making us immediately the two oldest people in the section.

Blue crew was loud and solid, but that was against the Cards, so that is a big, big game.

(06-25-2014 08:14 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 09:40 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  SMU is sold out. I'm glad we decreased the amount of seats and copied Duke.

And projected top 10-15 next season. Don't think I've ever seen a program turn the corner so quickly.

SMU is balling out, good for them!

(06-25-2014 02:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 09:40 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  SMU is sold out. I'm glad we decreased the amount of seats and copied Duke.

Illustrating perfectly why our football stadium doesn't work. 38,000 in a shiny new 42,000 seat stadium looks great. 38,000 in a 62,500 seat stadium looks ok.

Supply/demand, I concur. A stadium that works as both 40-ish normally with expansion for the bowl would be great.

As always, me and geosnooker remain available to do the drawings, no calls yet, but I'll let you know if the studio gets a call

That's why the 60,000 seat capacity hurts Tiger Football as there is never a real need to ever buy season fix as single game Sideline seats arre available for almost every home game.

A 40,000 seat stadium would force many to buy season fix for the first time (Limited sideline seating) which would bring in new $$$ (booster $$$ too as limited number of good seats will work the same as hoops), let alone provide a much better home field advantage.

OCS Now!!!

(06-28-2014 10:13 PM)OneShiningMoment Wrote:  OCS Now!!!

Even a "right size" new Liberty Bowl Stadium (i.e. 40,000-45,000 or so) would benefit the Tigers greatly.

With 107 rows of sideline seating at the Liberty Bowl...it will almost be impossible for UM to ever sellout those sideline seats for season tix.

A "right size" stadium with much more limited sideline seating (i.e. 40-50 rows) would cause many to buy season tix for the very first time (and donate $$$ to the football program for the very first time since most/all of those sideline seats in a smaller stadium would require donation fees) which would bring in new $$$ to the program.

Would be interesting if UM and/or city could build a 40,000 type flex stadium that could be reconfigured into a 18,000-22,000 MLS stadium....40,000 seat stadium for UM...expandable to 50,000 (if needed) for Liberty Bowl Games.

Also, a right size stadium built with new REVENUE GENERATING seats/sections (i.e. club levels, loge boxes and new mid-level suites) can bring in a lot more $$$$ (and more importantly NEW $$$) vs the mostly giant bleacher rows of the old Liberty Bowl.

(06-28-2014 10:10 PM)OneShiningMoment Wrote:  

(06-28-2014 09:35 PM)dan o Wrote:  Don't see how you can ever realistically judge much of anything about attendance until you start counting actual butts in the seats.

Too much fudging in that regard at most places.

If you satisfy yourself there is no need to do effective marketing to "actually" impact attendance, then it will continue to be contrived numbers rather than real numbers.

Most fans in attendance are aware that the numbers are inflated.

In my opinion.

do you count actual butts in the seats who paid for tickets or actual butts in seats who paid for tickets and those who got comp tix, or actual butts in seats who paid for tickets, who got comp tix, and students, faculty, and staff, or actual butts in seats who paid for tickets, who got comps, students, faculty, and staff, and media members and others who got in free on passes?

Again, only an opinion, but if the metric is simply attendance, then butts in the seats will be just fine.

Revenue from tickets sold is another metric.

(06-29-2014 09:48 AM)dan o Wrote:  

(06-28-2014 10:10 PM)OneShiningMoment Wrote:  

(06-28-2014 09:35 PM)dan o Wrote:  Don't see how you can ever realistically judge much of anything about attendance until you start counting actual butts in the seats.

Too much fudging in that regard at most places.

If you satisfy yourself there is no need to do effective marketing to "actually" impact attendance, then it will continue to be contrived numbers rather than real numbers.

Most fans in attendance are aware that the numbers are inflated.

In my opinion.

do you count actual butts in the seats who paid for tickets or actual butts in seats who paid for tickets and those who got comp tix, or actual butts in seats who paid for tickets, who got comp tix, and students, faculty, and staff, or actual butts in seats who paid for tickets, who got comps, students, faculty, and staff, and media members and others who got in free on passes?

Again, only an opinion, but if the metric is simply attendance, then butts in the seats will be just fine.

Revenue from tickets sold is another metric.

...and I agree with your opinion. There are 2 metrics at play there.

1. Attendance - how many people are actually there.
2. Tickets sold - how much is the customer willing to pay for (or invest in) the product.

...and I guess most athletic programs use a 3rd which includes a variety of tickets sold, required staff, actual tickets scanned/torn/etc, and (in some cases) tickets distributed. The 3rd metric is the least meaningful but seems to be the most referenced in discussions.