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Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
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Post: #21
Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
(06-24-2014 07:35 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Here's the flaw: the NCAA is not the US department of college sports. None of the universities are federal universities. The NCAA is a private club.

The Fedgov has NO authority to dictate the NCAA structure or who chooses to participate or NOT participate in that structure.

And you get an F on your 1L exams. But an A for digging back up US department of college sports.

First each and every member of the P5 receives Federal funds and assistance. Congress has full authority under the spending clause of the constitution to tell universities if you want the money you must do the following things.

Second intercollegiate athletics operate in interstate commerce and congress is granted authority to regulate interstate commerce. That is the grant that led to creation of anti-trust laws.


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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
That's a huge reach and you know it.

Sorry about the cure for cancer funding but making sure New Mexico State is included in FB is MUCH more important.

I dare any politician to try it

I dare the honorable representative of the state of Alabama to tell his voters how he voted for taking away funding from Bama or Auburn so that UAB football can keep calling itself "division 1"

I dare the representatives of North Carolina to tell their constituents that UNC and State both plummeted in the rankings because they voted to withhold federal fundings to help ECU football.

Anyone who thinks they'll do that and commit political suicide is either dumb or desperate
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2014 09:20 PM by 10thMountain.)
06-24-2014 09:13 PM
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cleburneslim Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
First of all and obvious to anyone there are far more voters than football fans any many more people who value fairness over a select school.
06-24-2014 09:36 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
Ask the voters if they think it's fair to withhold life saving research or to tank the rankings of their states flagship schools over a game.

You won't get many takers
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2014 09:41 PM by 10thMountain.)
06-24-2014 09:39 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
(06-24-2014 07:35 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Here's the flaw: the NCAA is not the US department of college sports. None of the universities are federal universities. The NCAA is a private club.

The Fedgov has NO authority to dictate the NCAA structure or who chooses to participate or NOT participate in that structure.

Army, Navy, AFA, and the D3 Coast Guard and Merchant Marine Academies, all under federal control.
06-24-2014 09:39 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
(06-24-2014 09:13 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  That's a huge reach and you know it.

Sorry about the cure for cancer funding but making sure New Mexico State is included in FB is MUCH more important.

I dare any politician to try it

I dare the honorable representative of the state of Alabama to tell his voters how he voted for taking away funding from Bama or Auburn so that UAB football can keep calling itself "division 1"

I dare the representatives of North Carolina to tell their constituents that UNC and State both plummeted in the rankings because they voted to withhold federal fundings to help ECU football.

Anyone who thinks they'll do that and commit political suicide is either dumb or desperate

WHaaaa. Whaaaa. What a bunch of crybabies. Nobody would take a dime from any school. They would be sharing playoff money equally (you know, like the most successful college playoff in existence the NCAA basketball tournament). If Bama cant beat the ECU's of the world with a 10 to 1 monetary advantage I guess they really were never all that special after all. And who exactly came down from heaven and said that the P5 have a God given right to take 90% of playoff money? lol...I wonder if it was the same guy that told them that taking all the money from the EA Video Games wouldn't be a problem.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2014 09:43 PM by Attackcoog.)
06-24-2014 09:42 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
I was refering to the P5

But sure, they can decide if they want the service academies to continue to play in the NCAA
06-24-2014 09:42 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
(06-24-2014 09:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Ask the voters if they think it's fair to withhold life saving research or to tank the rankings of their states flagship schools over a game.

You won't get many takers

They wont be withholding it from cancer research. It will be just going to another university that is working for cancer cures. Again, your arrogance is on full display in all its glory. Its not the schools money. Its the governments. They can spend it where ever they want on research. Now who is demanding other peoples money?
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2014 09:48 PM by Attackcoog.)
06-24-2014 09:46 PM
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RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
(06-24-2014 09:42 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-24-2014 09:13 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  That's a huge reach and you know it.

Sorry about the cure for cancer funding but making sure New Mexico State is included in FB is MUCH more important.

I dare any politician to try it

I dare the honorable representative of the state of Alabama to tell his voters how he voted for taking away funding from Bama or Auburn so that UAB football can keep calling itself "division 1"

I dare the representatives of North Carolina to tell their constituents that UNC and State both plummeted in the rankings because they voted to withhold federal fundings to help ECU football.

Anyone who thinks they'll do that and commit political suicide is either dumb or desperate

WHaaaa. Whaaaa. What a bunch of crybabies. Nobody would take a dime from any school. They would be sharing playoff money equally (you know, like the most successful college playoff in existence the NCAA basketball tournament). If Bama cant beat the ECU's of the world with a 10 to 1 monetary advantage I guess they really were never all that special after all. And who exactly came down from heaven and said that the P5 have a God given right to take 90% of playoff money? lol...I wonder if it was the same guy that told them that taking all the money from the video games wouldn't be a problem.

Whaaaaa! Whaaaaa!

Mommy they don't want to at with me! Make them play with me!

Mommy they won't give me a share of their money that I can't make on my own!

Sorry but in grown up world you don't get to dictate terms to the club you desperately want to be part of.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2014 09:49 PM by 10thMountain.)
06-24-2014 09:48 PM
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cleburneslim Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09...type=Blogs

if 1/4 of americans are college football fans how many of them follow g5 schools also how many people graduated from g5 or lower level schools and what about the other 75% who do not follow college football.
06-24-2014 09:50 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
(06-24-2014 09:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-24-2014 09:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Ask the voters if they think it's fair to withhold life saving research or to tank the rankings of their states flagship schools over a game.

You won't get many takers

They wont be withholding it from cancer research. It will be just going to another university that is working for cancer cures. Again, your arrogance is on full display in all its glory. Its not the schools money. Its the governments. They can spend it where ever they want on research. Now who is demanding other peoples money?

Yes they're going to take away UTs research and give it to more deserving UH until they come to their senses and give the AAC an AQ slot to the playoff

The only thing on display here is your complete detachment from reality
06-24-2014 09:51 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
(06-24-2014 09:48 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-24-2014 09:42 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-24-2014 09:13 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  That's a huge reach and you know it.

Sorry about the cure for cancer funding but making sure New Mexico State is included in FB is MUCH more important.

I dare any politician to try it

I dare the honorable representative of the state of Alabama to tell his voters how he voted for taking away funding from Bama or Auburn so that UAB football can keep calling itself "division 1"

I dare the representatives of North Carolina to tell their constituents that UNC and State both plummeted in the rankings because they voted to withhold federal fundings to help ECU football.

Anyone who thinks they'll do that and commit political suicide is either dumb or desperate

WHaaaa. Whaaaa. What a bunch of crybabies. Nobody would take a dime from any school. They would be sharing playoff money equally (you know, like the most successful college playoff in existence the NCAA basketball tournament). If Bama cant beat the ECU's of the world with a 10 to 1 monetary advantage I guess they really were never all that special after all. And who exactly came down from heaven and said that the P5 have a God given right to take 90% of playoff money? lol...I wonder if it was the same guy that told them that taking all the money from the video games wouldn't be a problem.

Whaaaaa! Whaaaaa!

Mommy they don't want to at with me! Make them play with me!

Mommy they won't give me a share of their money that I can't make on my own!

Sorry but in grown up world you don't get to dictate terms to the club you desperately want to be part of.

As Ive explained multiple times, what Im discussing is a simply a possible solution where the NCAA receives a anti-trust exemption in exchange for giving the government some level of regulatory power over the organization. Like I said, the P5 would be free to leave and operate in a true free market manner. But if they want to stick with the present collegiate quasi "amateur" model they could continue to so under the umbrella of the NCAA's anti-trust exemption. If some P5 schools didn't like the idea of those big bad scarey G5 schools having equal access to the playoff they would be free to run along and create their own little semi-pro league that operated under a true free market system. Paying players and dealing with unions would be a viable option for any P5 schools that were interested. We can already tell that the Big-10 and Pac-12 will not be part of such a group.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2014 09:57 PM by Attackcoog.)
06-24-2014 09:54 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
You've presented your own personal fantasy that you desperately want to come true.

I'm sure every G5 loves the idea of Uncle Sam stepping in and force the NCAA to create a tournament where they automatically get to be included.

I'm saying it's not happening but if you disagree then by all means hold your breath
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2014 09:58 PM by 10thMountain.)
06-24-2014 09:56 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
You have departed reality. All that needs to be said is that it is a possibility and the p5 will change. They will not fight the govt over its money
06-24-2014 09:56 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
If you honestly believe they will ever threaten funding over sports, it's you who have departed from reality. But it's a fun fantasy so enjoy it I guess
06-24-2014 10:00 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
(06-24-2014 09:56 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  You've presented your own personal fantasy that you desperately want to come true.

I'm sure every G5 loves the idea of Uncle Sam stepping in and force the NCAA to create a tournament where they automatically get to be included.

I'm saying it's not happening but if you disagree then by all means hold your breath

I don't think it will happen either. Frankly, I think its more likely that we see a significant departure from the current collegiate model. I presented it as about the only way that anything close to the current model can survive. I don't see how the current autonomy plan is a fix for the problem. The new plan substitutes the NCAA colluding to artificially set the value of the scholarship with the P5 colluding to artificially set the price of a scholarship. I doubt the courts will see much difference.

The only way I see the current model working is with an antitrust exemption. And to be clear, I never brought up withholding research funds---you did. I simply stated that they are under no requirement to send future research funds to their current recipients. Frankly, there would be no need to do any of that. What I envisioned was simply giving the NCAA an antitrust exemption in exchange for some reasonable level of governmental regulation. If the P5 didn't want to stay, they wouldn't have to. There would be no reason to penalize them for leaving. I would assume that most of the P5 schools, if given the opportunity, would to prefer to stay under the NCAA umbrella with its antitrust protection in a collegiate model that operates very similarly to what we have today.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2014 10:15 PM by Attackcoog.)
06-24-2014 10:08 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
(06-24-2014 09:51 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Yes they're going to take away UTs research and give it to more deserving UH until they come to their senses and give the AAC an AQ slot to the playoff

The only thing on display here is your complete detachment from reality

No, but they certainly could say give the other conferences a spot in the playoffs without taking away UT's research. While a P5 school, in general, has more support than a non P5 in their state, the P5 in total, do not always have greater support in their state than the sum of the G5. So screwing over the G5 et al isn't as clear as you make it seem.
80% of the schools, including P5, close tomorrow - tomorrow - but for the spigot of taxpayers dollars. And yet they decry lawmaker involvement when it involves anything else other than giving them the money that they want. They claim "market economics" while depending on the government for their very existence. Taxpayers own most of the schools (and those they don't own, they exempt form income taxes). Talk about a disassociation from reality.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2014 01:49 AM by EdisonDoyle.)
06-25-2014 01:47 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
(06-24-2014 09:42 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-24-2014 09:13 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  That's a huge reach and you know it.

Sorry about the cure for cancer funding but making sure New Mexico State is included in FB is MUCH more important.

I dare any politician to try it

I dare the honorable representative of the state of Alabama to tell his voters how he voted for taking away funding from Bama or Auburn so that UAB football can keep calling itself "division 1"

I dare the representatives of North Carolina to tell their constituents that UNC and State both plummeted in the rankings because they voted to withhold federal fundings to help ECU football.

Anyone who thinks they'll do that and commit political suicide is either dumb or desperate

WHaaaa. Whaaaa. What a bunch of crybabies. Nobody would take a dime from any school. They would be sharing playoff money equally (you know, like the most successful college playoff in existence the NCAA basketball tournament). If Bama cant beat the ECU's of the world with a 10 to 1 monetary advantage I guess they really were never all that special after all. And who exactly came down from heaven and said that the P5 have a God given right to take 90% of playoff money? lol...I wonder if it was the same guy that told them that taking all the money from the EA Video Games wouldn't be a problem.

ESPN, the bowl committees and bowl sponsors said that. They're providing the money and if they wanted any or all of the G5 to have greater access to the playoff and major bowls and a larger financial cut, it would have happened. The payouts and access to bowls came out of a series of negotiations, some of them still ongoing, and everyone is getting exactly what the financial backers think they are worth. Not even every one of the P5 made out equally. The Big 12 is getting the same money for the Sugar Bowl as the 40% larger SEC. The ACC is getting less from the Orange Bowl than the other 4 P5 conferences are getting from their bowl tie-ins and the Big 10 and SEC were able to negotiate secondary tie-ins when no one else was. Any of the G5 conferences were free to negotiate their own deals, but it turns out the Orange Bowl would rather have a secondary Big 10/SEC team and the 3 access bowls would rather host at-large teams than have a G5 tie-in.

Sure it's unfair, but the government isn't going to force the Cotton Bowl to offer the AAC and MWC the same deal that the Rose Bowl is giving to the Big 10 and Pac 12. Nor are they going to force ESPN to give the G5 conferences the playoff same money as the P5. If you're unhappy with that, it's not the government you should take your grievance to or even the P5 conferences; it's ESPN, Tostitos, AT&T, FedEx, AllState, Vizio, Chik-Fil-A and the dozens of minor sponsors and ad buyers that can change things. It's their money being handed out and in the end, they have more control than anyone about where it goes.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2014 03:27 AM by prp.)
06-25-2014 03:17 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
I think many people are confusing concerns many have with the treatment of student athlete's & equal opportunity for every conference . Congressional intervention or lawsuits aren't meant to level the playing field. I also feel that most of FBS will have the opportunity to implement the proposals floating around by the P5 if they choose to
06-25-2014 07:13 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Lawmaker wants to hear from NCAA
(06-24-2014 09:36 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  First of all and obvious to anyone there are far more voters than football fans any many more people who value fairness over a select school.

You overestimate the number of people who pay attention to this sort of stuff. Just as some G5 fans overestimate how much attention people in "X" market pay attention to them.

The P5 make more because more people pay attention and care. The comment that you never know what will come when Congress gets involved is true, so no one really wants it, but the odds are on the P5 getting what they want.
06-25-2014 08:42 AM
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