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No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
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billyjack Offline
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Post: #21
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
(06-24-2014 01:26 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(06-24-2014 09:24 AM)billyjack Wrote:  
(06-24-2014 08:42 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Actually, Fox was going to give them the same share if they added two additional members. No individual payout dilution. What I think the Big East wanted was some additional money incentives to get that twelve. If they have to expand, they want to be paid more for it (travel, ollies, hubris...I don't know, pick one), not paid the same. Apparently, there isn't even enough consensus for just one more, which someone like St. Louis or Dayton could have filled without added travel stress.

OOC material is a good idea, but you have to win some of those games, too.

I've heard Richmond rolled around a few times, and that certain schools (like Georgetown) want them. The conference had a chance to start that absorption process when it was short a lacrosse member for the AQ...it went out to the Rockies and plucked Denver instead. While I don't blame the Big East for picking up a program like that, Richmond was still right there. And rather than expand to surpass the minimum for AQ, they stand pat. So, where does that leave Richmond?

I haven't heard the part you said about wanting to be paid more...? Not saying you're wrong, but it's been discussed on the other site (HLoH) continously, and that's never come up.

I think it's simply the combination of (1) positives with the round robin, (2) not having an obvious home run candidate for #12 (VCU public, Gonzaga too far, etc) and waiting for one school to really stand out, and (3) #3 or #4 rated conference, with recruiting and attendance being great.

I'm unclear what the expansionary measures expected. Like, did the Big East have to take two to get the money, or would it have been prorated for just one? Because I can understand standing pat at ten when you can't find two schools you want unanimously. If they can't even agree on one, though?

I think the 10 Big East schools are 100% completely in agreement that they're not yet ready to expand. I think Saint Louis has a 99% chance of being #11 (unless they go 3-27 the next 2 years or so)(also, I'm pretty certain that if Majerus was still alive, SLU would've been invited last year). There are a bunch of great candidates to get to #12, and after another year or 2 plays out, that 12th school will maybe become more obvious.

Going to 11 with Saint Louis right now, though, would either force us to have 20 games in-conference, where we'll bludgeon each other in the competitive middle-standings; or we'll keep 18 games, but for 11 teams, and teams are going to lose home games vs Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette and in NYC, which would suck.

...I mean, going into the 2015 season here, I know that I can take the kids to the Dunk and see the Hoyas, etc... but trading a GU home game for Saint Louis (alone) at this point I think wouldn't be ideal, unless #12 also came, like a Gonzaga or maybe VCU... I don't know exactly...
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2014 02:42 PM by billyjack.)
06-24-2014 02:31 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
like I said- I think if Big East has another year like this past year- where 3rd place team was next to last team in the tourney and 4th place team had to win the tourney to get into the big dance- the leadership of the Big East is going to have to make a tough decision. I know the home and home is all nice and everything- but I think at some point, have to be realistic about everything. With 10 teams, it's all to easy to have a year like this past one.
06-24-2014 02:38 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #23
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
(06-22-2014 07:47 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  How much flexibility does Fox have in moving Big 10 games to Fox Sports 1?
It seems likely zero ~ its the BTN that owns the residual rights, not Fox. The fact that Fox owns roughly half of BTN is about profit sharing, not about rights sharing.

(06-24-2014 01:59 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  I agree that was on the table originally. With the terrible ratings last year, I personally believe that has been taken off the table.
Note that the terrible ratings are because they are on FS1 ~ Fox would have said that they aren't willing to pay the same rate for additional inventory right now that they were for the initial inventory. The initial inventory was very much needed given the rights that FS1 had on hand, but they will have understood that it would take two to three years to build their audience.

The original promise to top up the contract if the Big East added members was back when FS1 was working to ensure that the new Big East got off the ground. It seems highly unlikely that that was an open-ended offer, and much more likely that the ongoing offer is a look-in if the new Big East expands to 12.

And a look-in seems like it guarantees that the new Big East won't be expanding until FS1 attracts a larger general audience.

Add on top that Fox has good reason to wait and see whether Fox&FS1 get a half share of the Big Ten rights with Mighty Mouse TV & Sports Network, which will help determine how much winter season inventory they require.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2014 10:04 PM by BruceMcF.)
06-24-2014 09:55 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
(06-24-2014 09:55 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-22-2014 07:47 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  How much flexibility does Fox have in moving Big 10 games to Fox Sports 1?
It seems likely zero ~ its the BTN that owns the residual rights, not Fox. The fact that Fox owns roughly half of BTN is about profit sharing, not about rights sharing.

(06-24-2014 01:59 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  I agree that was on the table originally. With the terrible ratings last year, I personally believe that has been taken off the table.
Note that the terrible ratings are because they are on FS1 ~ Fox would have said that they aren't willing to pay the same rate for additional inventory right now that they were for the initial inventory. The initial inventory was very much needed given the rights that FS1 had on hand, but they will have understood that it would take two to three years to build their audience.

The original promise to top up the contract if the Big East added members was back when FS1 was working to ensure that the new Big East got off the ground. It seems highly unlikely that that was an open-ended offer, and much more likely that the ongoing offer is a look-in if the new Big East expands to 12.

And a look-in seems like it guarantees that the new Big East won't be expanding until FS1 attracts a larger general audience.

Add on top that Fox has good reason to wait and see whether Fox&FS1 get a half share of the Big Ten rights with Mighty Mouse TV & Sports Network, which will help determine how much winter season inventory they require.
Fox can't move a game from Big Ten network to FS1.

Also, would think that NBA is at least as important, if not more important even, than the Big Ten. If Fox got NBA and Big Ten- the slots that the Big East has would drop considerably. Also, NBA and Big Ten have the leverage since they're doing new deals to not have their games drop to FS2. That's huge. Also, UFC won't be going anywhere.
06-24-2014 10:19 PM
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DFW HOYA Online
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Post: #25
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
(06-24-2014 01:59 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  I agree that was on the table originally. With the terrible ratings last year, I personally believe that has been taken off the table.

It's in the contract. It doesn't go in and out.

That having been said, there is little interest in more road trips west.
06-28-2014 08:08 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #26
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
(06-24-2014 02:31 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Going to 11 with Saint Louis right now, though, would either force us to have 20 games in-conference, where we'll bludgeon each other in the competitive middle-standings; or we'll keep 18 games, but for 11 teams, and teams are going to lose home games vs Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette and in NYC, which would suck.

That makes sense, but it kind of leads me to believe none of the other candidates are desirable enough to disrupt that schema. If a ringer program made themselves available this instant, I think the conference would have no problem going to eleven or twelve with the issues it would create (although for the right program, it's not as bad a trade-off). Of what's currently available, though...

I think SLU is inevitable, but I wonder if they're the #12 school, and the BE wants a better #11 if they have to expand under these terms. It also causes me to wonder, as SLU has history with the likes of DePaul and Marquette, those two weren't enough to vouch for them? I didn't see Marquette and DePaul on the SLU schedules after the CUSA-BE-A10 split...hurt feelings?
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2014 08:38 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
06-28-2014 08:34 AM
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Hilltop75 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
Getting to 12 members was only a goal
For those conferences with FBS football
So they could have a championship game

There is no need to have divisions in basketball
As a matter of fact some conferences that have football
Divisions don't for basketball
06-28-2014 09:24 AM
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LouPower Offline
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Post: #28
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
(06-28-2014 08:34 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(06-24-2014 02:31 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Going to 11 with Saint Louis right now, though, would either force us to have 20 games in-conference, where we'll bludgeon each other in the competitive middle-standings; or we'll keep 18 games, but for 11 teams, and teams are going to lose home games vs Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette and in NYC, which would suck.

That makes sense, but it kind of leads me to believe none of the other candidates are desirable enough to disrupt that schema. If a ringer program made themselves available this instant, I think the conference would have no problem going to eleven or twelve with the issues it would create (although for the right program, it's not as bad a trade-off). Of what's currently available, though...

I think SLU is inevitable, but I wonder if they're the #12 school, and the BE wants a better #11 if they have to expand under these terms. It also causes me to wonder, as SLU has history with the likes of DePaul and Marquette, those two weren't enough to vouch for them? I didn't see Marquette and DePaul on the SLU schedules after the CUSA-BE-A10 split...hurt feelings?

Maybe with Marquette. Depaul just was never a team SLU mentioned at all. From fan to fan talk, Marquette specifically kept SLU out...but that's back and forth between fans.

The comedy of errors at SLU just keeps going.
08-24-2014 04:34 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #29
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
And all those Georgetown fans said they would never play Cuse again.
08-24-2014 05:51 PM
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MU88 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
(08-24-2014 04:34 PM)LouPower Wrote:  From fan to fan talk, Marquette specifically kept SLU out...but that's back and forth between fans.

Nah, MU didn't want Dayton. Bad blood between the athletic departments. Since MU and SLU are Jesuit, I don't think MU was actively against SLU. However, since the schools have had little history, but for 90s, MU fans do not consider SLU a rival. MU has had a much longer history with Creighton,also a Jesuit school, which is why I think the MU pushed them. Plus, the state of the program and the fact CU averages over 17,000 per game probably didn't hurt.
08-24-2014 07:13 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #31
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
(06-24-2014 10:19 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(06-24-2014 09:55 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-22-2014 07:47 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  How much flexibility does Fox have in moving Big 10 games to Fox Sports 1?
It seems likely zero ~ its the BTN that owns the residual rights, not Fox. The fact that Fox owns roughly half of BTN is about profit sharing, not about rights sharing.
Fox can't move a game from Big Ten network to FS1.

Correct. ESPN owns the national cable rights to the Big Ten (the BTN is available nationally, but is technically an RSN). The reason why ESPN and Fox redid the Big 12 contract to mirror the Pac 12 one, is that Fox having only second tier rights to Big 12 games could not put them on Big Fox, and ESPN only having first tier games (on ABC) , could not show games on ESPN, nor could they buy extra games and move to LHN. Thus they made an mutually beneficial agreement to share both tiers, so that they could put Big 12 games on Big Fox, ESPN could put Big 12 games on ESPN and ESPN 2, and they could move games to LHN to drive up demand. But they had to change the contract to do so.
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2014 09:43 AM by adcorbett.)
08-25-2014 09:43 AM
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Post: #32
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
(08-24-2014 07:13 PM)MU88 Wrote:  
(08-24-2014 04:34 PM)LouPower Wrote:  From fan to fan talk, Marquette specifically kept SLU out...but that's back and forth between fans.

Nah, MU didn't want Dayton. Bad blood between the athletic departments. Since MU and SLU are Jesuit, I don't think MU was actively against SLU. However, since the schools have had little history, but for 90s, MU fans do not consider SLU a rival. MU has had a much longer history with Creighton,also a Jesuit school, which is why I think the MU pushed them. Plus, the state of the program and the fact CU averages over 17,000 per game probably didn't hurt.

Creighton's president was on Marquette's Board of Trustees. That certainly helped to say the least in navigating the conference realignment waters.

I'm a large believer that the Big East should (and will) add SLU. A large market school with good facilities within the Big East's geographic footprint and a perfect cultural fit is basically everything that the league could ask for in a candidate. The problem is school #12 - who is it? Everyone has a large flaw - Dayton's market is too close to Xavier's market, VCU is a huge public school, Richmond is a tiny private school even compared to the other Big East members, Gonzaga is awesome purely on-the-court but the geographic distance simply isn't practical, etc.. If they had to choose today, I'd say Dayton would get the nod, but there isn't any consensus.

I know it's not really much consolation to SLU fans today, but they are very clearly next in line to get a Big East invite regardless of how they perform on-the-court. They just need someone clear to partner up with (who may not exist as of right now).
08-25-2014 12:16 PM
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Tigeer Offline
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Post: #33
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
(06-22-2014 09:57 AM)john01992 Wrote:  VCU, gonzaga, saint louis, dayton, wichita state.......

Does VCU have staying power, just curious what others think? Wichita State, for that matter.

I think Gonzaga, St. L and Dayton do.
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2014 12:30 PM by Tigeer.)
08-25-2014 12:29 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #34
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
When nobody who will make more money than cost you is willing to join then yeah, staying at 10 is a sound strategy for both of em
08-25-2014 12:31 PM
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mlb Offline
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RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
(08-24-2014 07:13 PM)MU88 Wrote:  Nah, MU didn't want Dayton. Bad blood between the athletic departments.

First I've heard of this. What is it about?
08-25-2014 12:32 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #36
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
(08-25-2014 12:32 PM)mlb Wrote:  
(08-24-2014 07:13 PM)MU88 Wrote:  Nah, MU didn't want Dayton. Bad blood between the athletic departments.

First I've heard of this. What is it about?

I don't know anything about it, but does it stem from their time together in the Great Midwest Conference?
08-25-2014 12:41 PM
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mlb Offline
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RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
UD and MU have played since those days. That is why I'm confused.
08-25-2014 12:53 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
(08-25-2014 12:16 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(08-24-2014 07:13 PM)MU88 Wrote:  
(08-24-2014 04:34 PM)LouPower Wrote:  From fan to fan talk, Marquette specifically kept SLU out...but that's back and forth between fans.

Nah, MU didn't want Dayton. Bad blood between the athletic departments. Since MU and SLU are Jesuit, I don't think MU was actively against SLU. However, since the schools have had little history, but for 90s, MU fans do not consider SLU a rival. MU has had a much longer history with Creighton,also a Jesuit school, which is why I think the MU pushed them. Plus, the state of the program and the fact CU averages over 17,000 per game probably didn't hurt.

Creighton's president was on Marquette's Board of Trustees. That certainly helped to say the least in navigating the conference realignment waters.

I'm a large believer that the Big East should (and will) add SLU. A large market school with good facilities within the Big East's geographic footprint and a perfect cultural fit is basically everything that the league could ask for in a candidate. The problem is school #12 - who is it? Everyone has a large flaw - Dayton's market is too close to Xavier's market, VCU is a huge public school, Richmond is a tiny private school even compared to the other Big East members, Gonzaga is awesome purely on-the-court but the geographic distance simply isn't practical, etc.. If they had to choose today, I'd say Dayton would get the nod, but there isn't any consensus.

I know it's not really much consolation to SLU fans today, but they are very clearly next in line to get a Big East invite regardless of how they perform on-the-court. They just need someone clear to partner up with (who may not exist as of right now).

im very interested in seeing who steps up to plate to make their program a viable option. I think the BE would prefer a school from the northeast (or at least sort of northeasterly) in a broad sense of northeast i mean virginia-north.
there arent that many private schools that fit the profile in this region at least not yet.
That said, IMO the BE should just go with 11 for now and invite SLU .

based soley on geography i would say the pool of longterm candidates would include:

Duquesne
holy cross
quinnipiac
fairfield
siena
northeastern
richmond (of course)
none of them jump out so i agree that Dayton has the edge and the league will have a more midwestern slant
08-25-2014 08:33 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #39
No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
Didn't Holy Cross turn down the Big East in the late 1970s?
08-25-2014 09:32 PM
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BamaScorpio69 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: No Big East expanion. Big East will follow B12's ten team model.
(06-22-2014 06:50 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  that's dumb move
beefing up OOC sch never works, schools are looking for wins & home games
taking bite out of A-10, devour your competation
St Lious & Dayton would help with SOS & travel costs
if 10 is so brilliant, why is so few conf there

You can't even spell dude. Maybe you should take a bite out of a dictionary for crying out loud. Oh wait, it's a message board and it doesn't require you to spell properly or use correct grammar although you're trying to make valid point...lol
08-25-2014 11:30 PM
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