The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Is he selling EMU the idea that he has to go backwards for three (guaranteed contract) years before they will be able to improve?

Dear DesertBronco,
I have not heard any talk of backwards movement, only of being competitive. We have been backwards for so long we are hoping that Coach Creighton will be the one to move us out of the abyss. To me, being competitive is no more blow out loses when we lose. If we lose games 28-14, 17-10, and the like, we were at least competitive. Certainly, no one wants to lose, but that would be my expectation if we do. Former Coach English and Athletic Director Gragg did not do us any favors with this year's schedule. After opening at home, we are not back home for five weeks.

That's good for you guys then. Our guy IS selling the idea that we are to go backwards in order to improve. He's serving it in little cups too.

If anyone offers, don't drink the kool aid.

(06-21-2014 06:39 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  What's that this new first-year head coach is doing over there in Ypsi?

New field turf you say?

Massive fundraising efforts?

New sayings and motto's like "The Factory" and "E.-T.O.U.G.H." that's meant to represent the Eagles are going to outwork their opponents on the field?

Building a new foundation?

This all sounds eerily familiar...

Man, I bet the locals can't wait until this used car salesman-like guy leaves town! He should focus more on football and winning than all of these gimmicky marketing and recruiting tactics.

Yeah, but I'll bet he follows it up with more than a 1-11 season. The criticism would be a lot less here if PJ lived up to his hype. Not gone, but certainly at a lower volume.

(06-21-2014 09:09 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Hoekjeness,
While I tend to agree with your statements, the difference between our schools is that Eastern hired a head coach and Western did not. Now the proof will be in the pudding as they say. Will Coach Creighton make Eastern competitive? We have to wait for the season to begin.

Ken - I was simply making sarcastic remarks directed at some of our own who don't like P.J.'s approach. I think Creighton has been doing a very good job behind the scenes early on at EMU.

Whether fans like it or not, recruits eat this stuff up and want to be a part of it. Some clearly don't have the patience to see a rebuild play out over a period of 3-4 years.

Dear Hoekjeness,
I get what you are saying, but it comes close to what has been going on in Ypsilanti lately. Agree on the recruiting angle.

(06-20-2014 05:05 PM)MRBUTTONS Wrote:  

(06-20-2014 02:54 PM)Broncobelt Wrote:  

(06-20-2014 02:40 PM)MRBUTTONS Wrote:   Another pearl of wisdom from Mr. Positivity. Try looking up for once. It just might make your day better. Here in Kalamazoo the attitude is pretty positive about the outlook for this year. Sorry it is a dust storm out in the desert.

Maybe in some quarters, but not all. You must not be reading my posts, or WW42 or...... Oh, never mind.

Not this board but people I've talk to or listened to in restaurants, sports bars and on the street. Not saying MAC champs, but a much more positive attitude than at end of last season.

We definitely don't run in similar circles then. Because half of the rants that I go on come out of conversations that I have with others regarding why they have no interest in WMU Football or Athletics. I rarely bring up the topic anymore because I don't have to, people begin their discussions with something about PJ or football knowing that I have been a season ticket holder for so long. And inevitably its never anything positive.

In my opinion, if your hearing an attitude that is positive its because your talking to homers, or people that are reading PJs quotes second hand and drinking the kool aid. Because seriously, 90% of the people I talk to either think he's a complete joke or have lost total interest in the program at all.

(06-21-2014 01:42 AM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  I hav not heard anything in kazoo other than we have become a joke. Only indifferent people I have talked to are college students ready to get drunk and skip out at halftime.

^^THIS^^

I would disagree with you on that WW... in most circles I talk to, the people that have lost faith in the program are pretty uninformed and not generally what I would consider the average sports fans. Most of the people I've talked to that pay closer attention to the program see the upside and understand there are going to be growing pains.

Then we are going to agree to disagree.

Personally, I would consider myself an above average, fairly well informed sports fan. I have been a season ticket holder for 20 years and have done my best to support the program through thick and thin. And for the first time in 20 years, I have not renewed my season tickets simply because I don't want to feel like I MUST go to these games to watch an uncompetitive team in a half full stadium, playing for a guy that I honestly think is a used car salesman that has no idea how to coach.

Like I said, most people that I talk to don't ask me about the team or what I think, they begin the conversation by asking if PJ is really as big of a clown as they think.

As for upside and growing pains. I refer back to a previous thread where someone stated that this season 4 wins is a step in the right direction and hopefully we can be in the hunt for .500 in 2015. I would argue that last years schedule was set up to be a nightmare and this year if they don't get 4 wins it is a monumental failure simply based on the schedule. But if we are to a point where we are HOPING to be .500 in year 3, when previously being .500 was considered a failure, I'm sorry I just don't buy it. And I will not accept that as a success.

Most people I talk to about WMU football have only been to a game because someone gave then tickets, or they were dragged there by a friend.

If I asked them about the coach they'd give me a perplexed look, and say "who is their coach."

Understand that there are a half million people in SW MI, and a couple 100k alums in the state. If 5% of those people gave a rats azz about WMU sports we'd sell out every FB and BB game. But the fact is the average sports fan in the area probably thinks PJ is a DJ at 103.3.

Frankly Waldo, those folks you refer to who say they have no interest in WMU sports wouldn't have any interest if we went 13-0. In their world if PJ changed our mantra to Go Blue or Go Green, he might have their attention. The average Kalamazoo sports fan were more embarrassed that we lost big to Syracuse than that we won the league. Their sports allegiance has to be blessed by their colleagues around the water cooler, most of whom never even went to college, which automatically makes them UM, MSU, or Bama fans.

Some of you worry way too much about how Fleck is perceived. Honestly it doesn't matter because nobody is paying attention. It's not like the media is quoting him, we barely have a newspaper as it is. If being a social media clown works for recruits and those recruits translate to wins, then it will matter.

Die hard alums are always suspicious of coaches who aren't named Sabin or Schembechler. And WMU alums are about as cynical as they get.

Some great rationale there. "Since no one cares about WMU we should embrace this sorry excuse for a coach and only talk happy here".

I reject that.

(06-22-2014 11:16 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Some great rationale there. "Since no one cares about WMU we should embrace this sorry excuse for a coach and only talk happy here".

I reject that.

No..........just pointing out that your great fears of PJ being a PR disaster is based on a false belief that tens of thousands of alums and fans are paying close attention. They're not.

I have no fears about PR. Just football.

(06-22-2014 11:27 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  I have no fears about PR. Just football.

Boy, you could have fooled me.

I talk to former players and or people in the community that have for one reason or another have had to listen to or deal with fleck and one huge booster (his money only goes to bball now). The vast majority are of the opinion that pj is about pj and he is selling snake oil out of the back of his suv. Former players are wondering if this staff can develop a game plan and develop talent. Former players and coaches are not buying the idea that you have to go backwards to go forward. Changes needed to be made but WW has a point that believing .500 is the goal for year 3 is unusual to say the least. Puts us back to where we were. Brian Kelley never talked about a 5 year plan he had a 5 minute plan to adjust and win with what he had similar to urban meyer.

In the end if pj can win all of this talk will be meaningless. Pj will be rowing to the next job and we will be scraping the walls of his trademark and putting up the next guys. Same thing is going to happen if he doesn't win.

(06-23-2014 03:36 AM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  I talk to former players and or people in the community that have for one reason or another have had to listen to or deal with fleck and one huge booster (his money only goes to bball now). The vast majority are of the opinion that pj is about pj and he is selling snake oil out of the back of his suv. Former players are wondering if this staff can develop a game plan and develop talent. Former players and coaches are not buying the idea that you have to go backwards to go forward. Changes needed to be made but WW has a point that believing .500 is the goal for year 3 is unusual to say the least. Puts us back to where we were. Brian Kelley never talked about a 5 year plan he had a 5 minute plan to adjust and win with what he had similar to urban meyer.

In the end if pj can win all of this talk will be meaningless. Pj will be rowing to the next job and we will be scraping the walls of his trademark and putting up the next guys. Same thing is going to happen if he doesn't win.

The sentiment I get from those who have been alum and fans for years along with previous players is the same. They want to see him put his supposed talent for coaching where his mouth is and start winning. One thing I got from some boosters recently was more anger over how Cubit is still getting trampled based on how Fleck keeps talking about how BAD this PROGRAM was... I couldn't agree more with these boosters. Fleck seems to think its easier to throw the previous regime under the bus, than to just address the masses with "Hey, you guys were fine and it was built by a previous staff... I PREFER to go in another direction in hopes of advancing the program"... Instead of constantly searching for sound bites that push the blame further and further from the great PJ.

I have turned further away from the great Fleckster recently based on a comment he gave to me face to face when I ran into him in Grand Rapids a month or so ago. I said I was rowing the boat but everyone is hoping for some more wins... to this he responded... and I am not kidding... "Not even Nick Saban could have won more games with that squad last year". I had to double take to make sure he was actually standing there and that those words had actually come out of his mouth. At this point... I just want to see him start winning and hopefully continue the trend of keeping his mouth shut more often than not... As a true Bronco fan... i just want whats best for the program, and right now it starts with wins. I don't give a rat's backside about slogans and recruiting classes... just win.

Hard to believe Fleck played for Joe Novak, worked for Jim Tressel and Greg Schiano unless he just wasn't paying attention or figures those guys were full of sheite and he knows better.

(06-23-2014 06:40 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Hard to believe Fleck played for Joe Novak, worked for Jim Tressel and Greg Schiano unless he just wasn't paying attention or figures those guys were full of sheite and he knows better.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://m.yo...U08oeAcbvw

This should sound familiar

Flush, I've had similar stories relayed to me, not very standup of the guy. Even if remotely true, and it wasn't. He got his azz handed to him four times last year where we should have won. Nichols, Kent, CMU and EMU. Those games were lost by the coaches more than anyone, for him to not own that makes it very concerning for our future.

Sounds like a guy more concerned with what cool pullovers he's wearing and what he's saying instead of coaching.