(06-18-2014 11:23 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  Same thing goes for Rutgers in New Jersey. I lived in NJ for 6 years and the people in the state thought Rutgers was a joke. I rooted for them but was mocked by the locals. If it ain't pro they don't go.

How long ago was that? Things have changed over the last 10 years. I've lived in NJ all 29+ years and I can tell you until about 10 years ago that's completely accurate. Now its a bit different, no one is mocking you anymore. There's two camps a large camp of ambivalent people who don't care or went to and/or root for another FBS school, a large camp of very casual fans who will keep up with the scores and record and sometimes watch the football games on TV or in person but aren't emotionally invested and a significantly enlarged (but still not massive) camp that is diehard who go the home games and close road games (Army, Temple, Navy, etc.) or at least watch every game. When I was a freshman in 2003 there were maybe 28K at the games sans for homecoming. Now we're hovering between 47K to 50K average per game. We now own 4 of the 5 highest rated regular season ESPN college football games in the NYC DMA.

(06-19-2014 11:19 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 11:07 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  While those numbers might only tell part of a story, they definitely tell a story. It's always easier to recruit in your region and the drop of athletes in the Big Ten footprint is definitely troubling.

It's the result of most high schools in the Midwest who run offenses that would be laughed at in FBS. In Minnesota, to set one example, there is no such thing as a passing game. Sure you'll see some teams make passing a priority(Creitn-Derham Hall is one I know of), but every one else runs, runs, runs. And it's not the wild outside running game that you'll see at some FBS schools(think triple option teams like Georgia Tech and Army), it is exlcusively an inside running game. Recently, there was a champion who threw ZERO passes in a championship game.

Last season Florida lost to a team that didn't complete a pass.

(06-19-2014 07:30 AM)Strut Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 12:40 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  

(06-18-2014 10:04 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  So history and quality of athletic department don't matter but amount of fans who don't give a crap about either university in their general region do? Got it.

I live right in Maryland country (Baltimore city) and I can tell you that outside of a small set of alums and some random cityfolk, nobody here gives a damn about Maryland athletics....especially if they aren't any good.

The Baltimore Ravens and the Washington Redskins have a stranglehold over football fans in Maryland. I can tell you most football fans aren't going to devote their entire weekend to both college football on Saturday and professional football on Sunday.

Sold out stadiums bring excitement and money regardless. In the beginning it might be a fair number of OSU, UM, PSU, etc. alum/fans helping to sell out UMD stadium but local athletes and even visiting out of state athletes will pay attention and will want to join the excitement. Season ticket sales look to be up over 25% already.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

See, I think this is the B1G mentality and it is very misguided, IMHO. They believe that it's not college football that the locals have been rejecting but rather the brand of college football they have been playing to this point. I think that is an extremely arrogant POV and is also dead wrong.

I think if the choice for locals to dedicate their time and attention is Maryland/Penn State or Redskins/Cowboys or Ravens/Steelers - as will often be the case - the locals will choose the pro game over the college game 9 out of 10 times.

The lone exception will be in those rare years in which Maryland is competing for the B1G eastern division title and a school like Ohio State or Michigan comes to town and is also very good that year. In that instance, on that particular weekend at least, THAT game will be the big story...unless the pro teams are also doing well and playing a big name NFL team that is also doing well. If that happens, see example 1.

I happen to live in a market with this exact mentality and it's impossible for the local college team to overcome and sustain. You can do it for a weekend or two per season if you are lucky but for the most part you are fifth or sixth fiddle no matter who you play.

Now, you can do it in basketball because college hoops is just as popular as the NBA. However, the NFL is an absolute juggernaut and just about every team that has to share its market with an NFL team will always lose in those comparisons.

(06-19-2014 11:35 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  See, I think this is the B1G mentality and it is very misguided, IMHO. They believe that it's not college football that the locals have been rejecting but rather the brand of college football they have been playing to this point. I think that is an extremely arrogant POV and is also dead wrong.

I think if the choice for locals to dedicate their time and attention is Maryland/Penn State or Redskins/Cowboys or Ravens/Steelers - as will often be the case - the locals will choose the pro game over the college game 9 out of 10 times.

The lone exception will be in those rare years in which Maryland is competing for the B1G eastern division title and a school like Ohio State or Michigan comes to town and is also very good that year. In that instance, on that particular weekend at least, THAT game will be the big story...unless the pro teams are also doing well and playing a big name NFL team that is also doing well. If that happens, see example 1.

I happen to live in a market with this exact mentality and it's impossible for the local college team to overcome and sustain. You can do it for a weekend or two per season if you are lucky but for the most part you are fifth or sixth fiddle no matter who you play.

Now, you can do it in basketball because college hoops is just as popular as the NBA. However, the NFL is an absolute juggernaut and just about every team that has to share its market with an NFL team will always lose in those comparisons.

An astute post. However, I think there are at least 3-4 NFL markets where the team is not popular enough to overcome CFB:

Jacksonville
Miami
Atlanta (I don't know about the Falcons, but CFB is so popular it doesn't matter)
Cincinnati (not that UC is more popular than the Bengals now, but the Bengals are extremely unpopular with a large swath of the population so UC has the potential to be more popular than the NFL)

There may be others.

See, I think the B1G's math problem has more to do with recruiting than it does fans. That is why I believe now and will always believe that their reaction to the ACC was very foolish and short-sighted.

Prior to adding Rutgers and Maryland, the B1G was already the wealthiest league. These additions just made them that much wealthier. Don't get me wrong, I'm as big a capitalist as anyone but the problem for the B1G has been on the field of play, which, I agree, is why so many of their schools have resorted to hiring SEC coaches and running satellite camps in Southern states. These additions do basically nothing to add to the B1G's recruiting base as the league was already heavily involved with both Maryland and New Jersey recruiting PRIOR to the additions of RU and UMD.

What I don't understand is why Delany and company didn't approach, say Georgia Tech and Florida State and offer those schools B1G membership? That would have been a game changer as it would have given the B1G a legitimate foothold in two enormously fruitful and growing states and in an area where the locals LOVE college football. It also could have guaranteed the BTN tier one coverage in Jacksonville, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, West Palm Beach and Atlanta among others. By leaving those two schools alone and instead taking Rutgers and Maryland, the B1G did the ACC an ENORMOUS favor, IMHO. I think they had the ACC by the throat and basically gave it a nuggie.

(06-19-2014 11:45 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  An astute post. However, I think there are at least 3-4 NFL markets where the team is not popular enough to overcome CFB:

Jacksonville
Miami
Atlanta (I don't know about the Falcons, but CFB is so popular it doesn't matter)
Cincinnati (not that UC is more popular than the Bengals now, but the Bengals are extremely unpopular with a large swath of the population so UC has the potential to be more popular than the NFL)

There may be others.

I think Seattle is the gold standard for CFB overcoming the NFL team as Washington does very well at the gate. We'll see if that continues now that the Seahawks are the world champs.

As for Cincinnati, I just don't see it - at least not as things currently stand. There's just no way the locals are going to choose a Bearcats/Memphis game over Bengals/Browns.

If UC were to get into the B12 or the ACC then perhaps that could change a little but even then I think the NFL team will always have the edge there for all of the reasons I stated above.

I believe that I read as recently as last year that UC had only sold out tiny Nippert Stadium (35K capacity) like five or six times ever. That's not a good example, IMHO.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED my trip to Nippert Stadium. It's a very cool little old school venue right in the middle of campus. Waiting in line for the bathroom sucked hard but it had a very cool feel to it. Also, aside from WVU, no school brought more visiting fans to Pittsburgh than Cincinnati. I was always very impressed with those fans' passion and I would strongly advocate for them were an opening to arise in the ACC. However, if I'm being entirely honest I must admit that I just don't see them as being in a great position to take over for the Bengals in the Queen City.

(06-19-2014 11:19 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 11:07 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  While those numbers might only tell part of a story, they definitely tell a story. It's always easier to recruit in your region and the drop of athletes in the Big Ten footprint is definitely troubling.

It's the result of most high schools in the Midwest who run offenses that would be laughed at in FBS.

I'd say it's more the result of liberalism and unions destroying the rust Belt economies, therefore driving people South.

(06-19-2014 11:49 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  See, I think the B1G's math problem has more to do with recruiting than it does fans. That is why I believe now and will always believe that their reaction to the ACC was very foolish and short-sighted.

Prior to adding Rutgers and Maryland, the B1G was already the wealthiest league. These additions just made them that much wealthier. Don't get me wrong, I'm as big a capitalist as anyone but the problem for the B1G has been on the field of play, which, I agree, is why so many of their schools have resorted to hiring SEC coaches and running satellite camps in Southern states. These additions do basically nothing to add to the B1G's recruiting base as the league was already heavily involved with both Maryland and New Jersey recruiting PRIOR to the additions of RU and UMD.

What I don't understand is why Delany and company didn't approach, say Georgia Tech and Florida State and offer those schools B1G membership? That would have been a game changer as it would have given the B1G a legitimate foothold in two enormously fruitful and growing states and in an area where the locals LOVE college football. It also could have guaranteed the BTN tier one coverage in Jacksonville, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, West Palm Beach and Atlanta among others. By leaving those two schools alone and instead taking Rutgers and Maryland, the B1G did the ACC an ENORMOUS favor, IMHO. I think they had the ACC by the throat and basically gave it a nuggie.

How do you know that they didn't (at least indirectly)? While that might have been a game changer, it's not at all clear to me that either of those schools could have gotten enough votes from B1G members for a formal invite. It's also not clear to me that either of those schools would have accepted an invite if offered. Maybe yes, maybe no.

One of FSU's concerns in the ACC is that too many of their in-conference opponents aren't attractive enough to their fans to fill their stadium for every home game. How is the B1G any better in that respect? Do you think the folks in Tallahassee are going to be interested in Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota, etc, etc? Yes, Ohio State is big, but if you are already filling your stadium for Clemson, where's the net gain there? And in exchange for that swap, you have made travel for all sports absolutely horrendous.

Would the ACC have survived losing GT and FSU? Probably. If they lost their P5 status, which I doubt, they would at least be P4.5. Clemson and Miami, and maybe even Va Tech, would now have a better shot at a high ranking, and the ACC would have the entire northeast, including the New York metro area, to itself. It might have decided to go for broke and replace those two with UConn, Rutgers, Louisville, and Cincy and get a death grip on college basketball.

IMO, the B1G probably considered your picks, and rejected them. I suspect if they thought they could have snagged UNC and Virginia instead, they would have moved in a heartbeat. And that would have been more damaging to the ACC, IMO. But I think those two were less likely to accept an invite than FSU and GT. In the end, I think they took the two schools that they could get who would be a net plus for their league, even if they weren't the two shiniest ornaments on the tree.

(06-19-2014 11:35 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Now, you can do it in basketball because college hoops is just as popular as the NBA. However, the NFL is an absolute juggernaut and just about every team that has to share its market with an NFL team will always lose in those comparisons.

College basketball isn't as popular as the NBA in most metro regions that have a team, and particularly with the Wizards playing better, DC is not an exception. UMD also also has to compete with Georgetown, which is definitely seen as more of the city's college team, not to mention GW, AU, Howard, Navy, UVA, and VTech. All of those schools get coverage on the local news.

Regarding NFL and cities listed above, Miami isn't a sports town, at all, but in football, the Fins dominate and always have. Nothing will change that. Can't speak to the rest of the cities, but the Jags fans that I knew were very loyal and were Jags first, college teams like UF second.

(06-19-2014 11:07 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  While those numbers might only tell part of a story, they definitely tell a story. It's always easier to recruit in your region and the drop of athletes in the Big Ten footprint is definitely troubling.

Especially if more of the top flight talent decides to stay south.

(06-19-2014 12:35 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 11:19 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 11:07 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  While those numbers might only tell part of a story, they definitely tell a story. It's always easier to recruit in your region and the drop of athletes in the Big Ten footprint is definitely troubling.

It's the result of most high schools in the Midwest who run offenses that would be laughed at in FBS.

I'd say it's more the result of liberalism and unions destroying the rust Belt economies, therefore driving people South.

If that were true, everyone in the North would have moved to Southeast Asia and South America, where these well meaning major corporations can get even cheaper labor than they can in the Deep South.

(06-19-2014 01:13 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 12:35 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 11:19 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 11:07 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  While those numbers might only tell part of a story, they definitely tell a story. It's always easier to recruit in your region and the drop of athletes in the Big Ten footprint is definitely troubling.

It's the result of most high schools in the Midwest who run offenses that would be laughed at in FBS.

I'd say it's more the result of liberalism and unions destroying the rust Belt economies, therefore driving people South.

If that were true, everyone in the North would have moved to Southeast Asia and South America, where these well meaning major corporations can get even cheaper labor than they can in the Deep South.

Interesting...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2...wer-again/

Quote:They generally have lower taxes, and less stringent regulations, than their primary competitors in the Northeast or on the West Coast. Indeed this year the four best states for business, according to CEO Magazine, were Texas, Florida, North Carolina and Tennessee. They are also much less unionized, an important factor for foreign and expanding domestic firms.

Despite a tough time in the Great Recession, overall unemployment in the region now is less than in either the West or the Northeast. As manufacturing has recovered, employment has rebounded quicker in the Southeast than in the rival Great Lakes region.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-18...-rust-belt

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/22/nyregi...d=all&_r=0

(06-19-2014 11:35 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 07:30 AM)Strut Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 12:40 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  

(06-18-2014 10:04 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  So history and quality of athletic department don't matter but amount of fans who don't give a crap about either university in their general region do? Got it.

I live right in Maryland country (Baltimore city) and I can tell you that outside of a small set of alums and some random cityfolk, nobody here gives a damn about Maryland athletics....especially if they aren't any good.

The Baltimore Ravens and the Washington Redskins have a stranglehold over football fans in Maryland. I can tell you most football fans aren't going to devote their entire weekend to both college football on Saturday and professional football on Sunday.

Sold out stadiums bring excitement and money regardless. In the beginning it might be a fair number of OSU, UM, PSU, etc. alum/fans helping to sell out UMD stadium but local athletes and even visiting out of state athletes will pay attention and will want to join the excitement. Season ticket sales look to be up over 25% already.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

See, I think this is the B1G mentality and it is very misguided, IMHO. They believe that it's not college football that the locals have been rejecting but rather the brand of college football they have been playing to this point. I think that is an extremely arrogant POV and is also dead wrong.

I think if the choice for locals to dedicate their time and attention is Maryland/Penn State or Redskins/Cowboys or Ravens/Steelers - as will often be the case - the locals will choose the pro game over the college game 9 out of 10 times.

The lone exception will be in those rare years in which Maryland is competing for the B1G eastern division title and a school like Ohio State or Michigan comes to town and is also very good that year. In that instance, on that particular weekend at least, THAT game will be the big story...unless the pro teams are also doing well and playing a big name NFL team that is also doing well. If that happens, see example 1.

I happen to live in a market with this exact mentality and it's impossible for the local college team to overcome and sustain. You can do it for a weekend or two per season if you are lucky but for the most part you are fifth or sixth fiddle no matter who you play.

Now, you can do it in basketball because college hoops is just as popular as the NBA. However, the NFL is an absolute juggernaut and just about every team that has to share its market with an NFL team will always lose in those comparisons.

I respectfully disagree and offer this perspective. IMO there are enough B1G alum fans in the DC/ Maryland area from each of the schools UMD will play that they will easily sell out the stadium; they weren't that far from sell outs this past year.

Here's where I disagree with your NFL fan example. A fan of football will typically enjoy both NFL and College. As a lot B1G alum are transplants and are fans of both but haven't had access to see their college teams. This there is pent up demand. Given a chance B1G alum/fans will swarm to UMD or Rutgers in droves to see their teams. Which will cause excitement in those towns ( see my example below as I've seen it play out before). That doesn't mean they can't or won't also support local NFL Teams.

I lived in NY/NJ some time back and had to fight tooth and nail to get tickets to see my MSU Spartans in sell outs at the Meadowlands against Rutgers. I think this dispute will be very easily settled when the stadiums at UMD and Rutgers are full this fall! Stay tuned!


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(06-19-2014 11:45 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 11:35 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  See, I think this is the B1G mentality and it is very misguided, IMHO. They believe that it's not college football that the locals have been rejecting but rather the brand of college football they have been playing to this point. I think that is an extremely arrogant POV and is also dead wrong.

I think if the choice for locals to dedicate their time and attention is Maryland/Penn State or Redskins/Cowboys or Ravens/Steelers - as will often be the case - the locals will choose the pro game over the college game 9 out of 10 times.

The lone exception will be in those rare years in which Maryland is competing for the B1G eastern division title and a school like Ohio State or Michigan comes to town and is also very good that year. In that instance, on that particular weekend at least, THAT game will be the big story...unless the pro teams are also doing well and playing a big name NFL team that is also doing well. If that happens, see example 1.

I happen to live in a market with this exact mentality and it's impossible for the local college team to overcome and sustain. You can do it for a weekend or two per season if you are lucky but for the most part you are fifth or sixth fiddle no matter who you play.

Now, you can do it in basketball because college hoops is just as popular as the NBA. However, the NFL is an absolute juggernaut and just about every team that has to share its market with an NFL team will always lose in those comparisons.

An astute post. However, I think there are at least 3-4 NFL markets where the team is not popular enough to overcome CFB:

Jacksonville
Miami
Atlanta (I don't know about the Falcons, but CFB is so popular it doesn't matter)
Cincinnati (not that UC is more popular than the Bengals now, but the Bengals are extremely unpopular with a large swath of the population so UC has the potential to be more popular than the NFL)

There may be others.

It wasn't that long ago you could include New Orleans on that list thanks to the school in Baton Rouge.

(06-19-2014 11:49 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  See, I think the B1G's math problem has more to do with recruiting than it does fans. That is why I believe now and will always believe that their reaction to the ACC was very foolish and short-sighted.

Prior to adding Rutgers and Maryland, the B1G was already the wealthiest league. These additions just made them that much wealthier. Don't get me wrong, I'm as big a capitalist as anyone but the problem for the B1G has been on the field of play, which, I agree, is why so many of their schools have resorted to hiring SEC coaches and running satellite camps in Southern states. These additions do basically nothing to add to the B1G's recruiting base as the league was already heavily involved with both Maryland and New Jersey recruiting PRIOR to the additions of RU and UMD.

What I don't understand is why Delany and company didn't approach, say Georgia Tech and Florida State and offer those schools B1G membership? That would have been a game changer as it would have given the B1G a legitimate foothold in two enormously fruitful and growing states and in an area where the locals LOVE college football. It also could have guaranteed the BTN tier one coverage in Jacksonville, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, West Palm Beach and Atlanta among others. By leaving those two schools alone and instead taking Rutgers and Maryland, the B1G did the ACC an ENORMOUS favor, IMHO. I think they had the ACC by the throat and basically gave it a nuggie.

I don't think it was truly an option without UNC and Virginia. UNC would have likely paid for itself thanks to being a consistent tournament team in basketball in addition to any decent fraction of subscribers in North Carolina. Virginia helps by connecting UNC and Maryland, and delivers the equivalent of a Top 20 market (Richmond + Virginia Beach + Roanoke) without even counting the Virginia side of the Washington market.

B1G East
Maryland
North Carolina
Florida State
Virginia
Georgia Tech
Penn State
Rutgers
Michigan
Michigan State

B1G West
Ohio State
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Iowa
Nebraska
Illinois
Indiana
Purdue
Northwestern

If the B1G had been willing to go to 20, 2 of Kansas, Missouri, and Vanderbilt would allow Ohio State to slide to the East Division (or the Northeast division in a 4x5 setup.

(06-19-2014 05:10 PM)Strut Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 11:35 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 07:30 AM)Strut Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 12:40 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  

(06-18-2014 10:04 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  So history and quality of athletic department don't matter but amount of fans who don't give a crap about either university in their general region do? Got it.

I live right in Maryland country (Baltimore city) and I can tell you that outside of a small set of alums and some random cityfolk, nobody here gives a damn about Maryland athletics....especially if they aren't any good.

The Baltimore Ravens and the Washington Redskins have a stranglehold over football fans in Maryland. I can tell you most football fans aren't going to devote their entire weekend to both college football on Saturday and professional football on Sunday.

Sold out stadiums bring excitement and money regardless. In the beginning it might be a fair number of OSU, UM, PSU, etc. alum/fans helping to sell out UMD stadium but local athletes and even visiting out of state athletes will pay attention and will want to join the excitement. Season ticket sales look to be up over 25% already.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

See, I think this is the B1G mentality and it is very misguided, IMHO. They believe that it's not college football that the locals have been rejecting but rather the brand of college football they have been playing to this point. I think that is an extremely arrogant POV and is also dead wrong.

I think if the choice for locals to dedicate their time and attention is Maryland/Penn State or Redskins/Cowboys or Ravens/Steelers - as will often be the case - the locals will choose the pro game over the college game 9 out of 10 times.

The lone exception will be in those rare years in which Maryland is competing for the B1G eastern division title and a school like Ohio State or Michigan comes to town and is also very good that year. In that instance, on that particular weekend at least, THAT game will be the big story...unless the pro teams are also doing well and playing a big name NFL team that is also doing well. If that happens, see example 1.

I happen to live in a market with this exact mentality and it's impossible for the local college team to overcome and sustain. You can do it for a weekend or two per season if you are lucky but for the most part you are fifth or sixth fiddle no matter who you play.

Now, you can do it in basketball because college hoops is just as popular as the NBA. However, the NFL is an absolute juggernaut and just about every team that has to share its market with an NFL team will always lose in those comparisons.

I respectfully disagree and offer this perspective. IMO there are enough B1G alum fans in the DC/ Maryland area from each of the schools UMD will play that they will easily sell out the stadium; they weren't that far from sell outs this past year.

Here's where I disagree with your NFL fan example. A fan of football will typically enjoy both NFL and College. As a lot B1G alum are transplants and are fans of both but haven't had access to see their college teams. This there is pent up demand. Given a chance B1G alum/fans will swarm to UMD or Rutgers in droves to see their teams. Which will cause excitement in those towns ( see my example below as I've seen it play out before). That doesn't mean they can't or won't also support local NFL Teams.

I lived in NY/NJ some time back and had to fight tooth and nail to get tickets to see my MSU Spartans in sell outs at the Meadowlands against Rutgers. I think this dispute will be very easily settled when the stadiums at UMD and Rutgers are full this fall! Stay tuned!


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

While there is no doubt MD will sell more tickets because of Big Ten visiting fan bases, hitching a program's health on visiting fan bases is a recipe for failure.

Notre Dame avoiding Big Ten looking better by the day

Keith Arnold

http://irish.nbcsports.com/2014/06/19/no...y-the-day/

(06-19-2014 08:33 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 05:10 PM)Strut Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 11:35 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 07:30 AM)Strut Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 12:40 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  The Baltimore Ravens and the Washington Redskins have a stranglehold over football fans in Maryland. I can tell you most football fans aren't going to devote their entire weekend to both college football on Saturday and professional football on Sunday.

Sold out stadiums bring excitement and money regardless. In the beginning it might be a fair number of OSU, UM, PSU, etc. alum/fans helping to sell out UMD stadium but local athletes and even visiting out of state athletes will pay attention and will want to join the excitement. Season ticket sales look to be up over 25% already.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

See, I think this is the B1G mentality and it is very misguided, IMHO. They believe that it's not college football that the locals have been rejecting but rather the brand of college football they have been playing to this point. I think that is an extremely arrogant POV and is also dead wrong.

I think if the choice for locals to dedicate their time and attention is Maryland/Penn State or Redskins/Cowboys or Ravens/Steelers - as will often be the case - the locals will choose the pro game over the college game 9 out of 10 times.

The lone exception will be in those rare years in which Maryland is competing for the B1G eastern division title and a school like Ohio State or Michigan comes to town and is also very good that year. In that instance, on that particular weekend at least, THAT game will be the big story...unless the pro teams are also doing well and playing a big name NFL team that is also doing well. If that happens, see example 1.

I happen to live in a market with this exact mentality and it's impossible for the local college team to overcome and sustain. You can do it for a weekend or two per season if you are lucky but for the most part you are fifth or sixth fiddle no matter who you play.

Now, you can do it in basketball because college hoops is just as popular as the NBA. However, the NFL is an absolute juggernaut and just about every team that has to share its market with an NFL team will always lose in those comparisons.

I respectfully disagree and offer this perspective. IMO there are enough B1G alum fans in the DC/ Maryland area from each of the schools UMD will play that they will easily sell out the stadium; they weren't that far from sell outs this past year.

Here's where I disagree with your NFL fan example. A fan of football will typically enjoy both NFL and College. As a lot B1G alum are transplants and are fans of both but haven't had access to see their college teams. This there is pent up demand. Given a chance B1G alum/fans will swarm to UMD or Rutgers in droves to see their teams. Which will cause excitement in those towns ( see my example below as I've seen it play out before). That doesn't mean they can't or won't also support local NFL Teams.

I lived in NY/NJ some time back and had to fight tooth and nail to get tickets to see my MSU Spartans in sell outs at the Meadowlands against Rutgers. I think this dispute will be very easily settled when the stadiums at UMD and Rutgers are full this fall! Stay tuned!


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

While there is no doubt MD will sell more tickets because of Big Ten visiting fan bases, hitching a program's health on visiting fan bases is a recipe for failure.

I'll bite, what's the downside to sold out crowds and being more relevant on excitement meter than in a long time or ever?


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(06-19-2014 02:26 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 01:13 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 12:35 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 11:19 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  

(06-19-2014 11:07 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  While those numbers might only tell part of a story, they definitely tell a story. It's always easier to recruit in your region and the drop of athletes in the Big Ten footprint is definitely troubling.

It's the result of most high schools in the Midwest who run offenses that would be laughed at in FBS.

I'd say it's more the result of liberalism and unions destroying the rust Belt economies, therefore driving people South.

If that were true, everyone in the North would have moved to Southeast Asia and South America, where these well meaning major corporations can get even cheaper labor than they can in the Deep South.

Interesting...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2...wer-again/

Quote:They generally have lower taxes, and less stringent regulations, than their primary competitors in the Northeast or on the West Coast. Indeed this year the four best states for business, according to CEO Magazine, were Texas, Florida, North Carolina and Tennessee. They are also much less unionized, an important factor for foreign and expanding domestic firms.

Despite a tough time in the Great Recession, overall unemployment in the region now is less than in either the West or the Northeast. As manufacturing has recovered, employment has rebounded quicker in the Southeast than in the rival Great Lakes region.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-18...-rust-belt

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/22/nyregi...d=all&_r=0

Great, the 10,868,494th prediction that the South will eventually rise again. Man, you guys have a chip on your shoulder the size of a boulder.

The first column is a train wreck. It is basically saying that all of the educated Northerners migrating to the South will ensure its dominance for population reasons alone. That's not an indefensible theory at all. In fact, I think that's a fairly reasonable theory. However, it falls apart from there.

This dude then off-handedly acknowledges that post-secondary education in the South - which he seems to define as the SEC states, including Texas - while growing, is still behind their peers in the North and West. He then spends a lot of time trying to explain why and how that's changing and he does so by trying to compare places like Baton Rouge to Boston or Austin to New York. That's a pretty suspect methodology.

My favorite part though is when he implies that all of these Northerners that are moving South in droves will take/create a bunch of jobs but then will adopt Southern pride in the process.

No, they wont. They will take their previously formed cultural attitudes and simply apply them to their new setting. It will further homogenize this country which will be great in some respects and sad in others.

Also, he discusses unemployment in a very rudimentary, non-contextualized way (an all too common trick is pieces like this one). If it's just sheer jobs, then who cares? That's only part of the story.

For example, I am a Comcast customer and last week I had an issue with my modem so I called Comcast for guidance on how to fix it. Who did I speak with? I spoke with a very nice young man who was at a call center in the Philippines. Why do you suppose that was? They couldn't have had a call center in Philadelphia, where they are based? Or Washington, DC? Or even Tupelo, Mississippi? Buy hey, the unemployment rate in the Philippines just got lowered, right? And really, Comcast had no choice but to outsource its call center to Southeast Asia. That's because those American call center workers are just so greedy and constantly demand things like a livable wage and working restrooms whereas in the Philippines, every penny you pay them is a gift from God and they can hold their bowel movements for when they return home to their tenements after their 15 hour shift is over.



Unions have certainly caused tons of problems for themselves. However, I don't think Southern states selling out their most poorly educated workers is a great long term strategy for anyone other than the companies who are exploiting those people.

(06-19-2014 05:10 PM)Strut Wrote:  I respectfully disagree and offer this perspective. IMO there are enough B1G alum fans in the DC/ Maryland area from each of the schools UMD will play that they will easily sell out the stadium; they weren't that far from sell outs this past year.

Here's where I disagree with your NFL fan example. A fan of football will typically enjoy both NFL and College. As a lot B1G alum are transplants and are fans of both but haven't had access to see their college teams. This there is pent up demand. Given a chance B1G alum/fans will swarm to UMD or Rutgers in droves to see their teams. Which will cause excitement in those towns ( see my example below as I've seen it play out before). That doesn't mean they can't or won't also support local NFL Teams.

I lived in NY/NJ some time back and had to fight tooth and nail to get tickets to see my MSU Spartans in sell outs at the Meadowlands against Rutgers. I think this dispute will be very easily settled when the stadiums at UMD and Rutgers are full this fall! Stay tuned!

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I think you'll be proven right for the first 2-3 years. It's after the honeymoon is over and after that luster has worn off that I think you'll be proven wrong.

Excitement doesn't come from full stadia alone. It comes from the local team having a chance to win in front of a large crowd. What in either Maryland's or Rutgers' respective histories suggests to you that will be the case?

You are going to need the locals to buy in and that means they are going to have to semi-regularly beat Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, etc. Does that seem likely to you?

Or are you suggesting that the visiting teams are going to foot the bill in perpetuity - which will in turn spark massive excitement among the locals because...well, at least the stadium was full? That's an interesting theory.