(06-13-2014 06:04 PM)Hawkeye Fan Wrote:  I would think Houston would be a great addition to the SEC. It has a big TV market for their new network, further SEC exposure in Texas and rich area of great high school football talent.

Houston also has a rich tradition with a Heisman winner and SWC Championships.

If I am the SEC, I go after Houston, Baylor and TCU and wrap up south and east Texas for the SEC.

"TV market" = irrelevant
Fans = relevant
Houston doesn't have enough fans

Houston recruits
See TAMU

Unfortunately for Houston, when it comes to the SEC, they don't offer anything new and nothing TAMU doesn't already.

The thing is, if you think about that, it means so etching a little different to the Big12.

(06-14-2014 06:09 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  I like Houston. I grew up there. I still support Houston and Rice, but the simple truth is Houston has never carried large support from the local community. Even during the late 80's and early 90's they struggled for fan support. I remember when Andre Ware and the Cougars pounded SMU for 95 points in 1989, and there was only 20K in the dome. Houston beat Texas that season. They had an amazing offense.

And TCU drew 19,212 for a Top 25 Houston club when we visited Ft. Worth in 1989. Where is TCU today? Point: Attendance from that era is meaningless today.

But to address your point, Houston was on probation that year. Ineligible for the conference title. And SMU was in it's first year back after the death penalty. No one wanted to see that massacre. It would be like watching a college team play a HS team.

Despite the probation, we drew 30K for Tech and Baylor that season, and 45K for Texas.

25 years later, the city of Houston has grown tremendously. As has our alumni base. If you put Houston in the Big 12 or SEC, we would instantly sell out our brand new 40,000 seat stadium and start planning for expansion.

(06-14-2014 08:59 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Unfortunately for Houston, when it comes to the SEC, they don't offer anything new and nothing TAMU doesn't already.

The thing is, if you think about that, it means something a little different to the Big12.

Precisely.

Random SEC games not involving A&M are getting much better ratings in Houston now than random Big 12 games not involving Texas.

And Texas A&M games are dwarfing Texas games in Houston.

The one thing we can offer the Big 12 right now is more telecasts that Houstonians care about and will watch. But I doubt that's enough, by itself, to warrant a Big 12 invite.

The TV ratings phenomenon has not spilled over into recruiting. SEC teams have not made a lot of headway in Houston area recruiting.

If that starts to happen, and Big 12 teams are losing Houston area recruits to SEC teams, then UH becomes more attractive. The Big 12 schools would want to make trips to play games down here on a more frequent basis to help their recruiting.

And yet I'd bet the Texas B12 schools still won't vote to elevate UH to peer status.

You maybe right but a lot of the fan base especially the younger ones don't any part of the B12 due to Texas (there looking west or stay AAC) due to the bad blood between the 2 schools and they simply don't trust Texas, with good reason. The older ones still hold on to the old SWC days. I'm with the younger crowd on this.

(06-14-2014 09:27 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(06-14-2014 08:59 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Unfortunately for Houston, when it comes to the SEC, they don't offer anything new and nothing TAMU doesn't already.

The thing is, if you think about that, it means something a little different to the Big12.

Precisely.

Random SEC games not involving A&M are getting much better ratings in Houston now than random Big 12 games not involving Texas.

And Texas A&M games are dwarfing Texas games in Houston.

The one thing we can offer the Big 12 right now is more telecasts that Houstonians care about and will watch. But I doubt that's enough, by itself, to warrant a Big 12 invite.

The TV ratings phenomenon has not spilled over into recruiting. SEC teams have not made a lot of headway in Houston area recruiting.

If that starts to happen, and Big 12 teams are losing Houston area recruits to SEC teams, then UH becomes more attractive. The Big 12 schools would want to make trips to play games down here on a more frequent basis to help their recruiting.

Let's see A&M's ratings after the Manziel years before declaring Houston SEC country. Because except for the Manziel years, A&M has never owned the Houston TV market over UT. And except for Houston and San Antonio tv markets, A&M ratings lagged both UT and Texas Tech in every Big 12 Texas tv ratings market. (Fyi, Tech was #3 in Houston).

I think we will see a big trail off if TAMU backslides, which I believe they will. The lack of real success even with Manziel doesn't bode well.

Still, Houston isn't offering the SEC anything.

It's Big12 or broke for Houston.

(06-14-2014 09:27 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(06-14-2014 08:59 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Unfortunately for Houston, when it comes to the SEC, they don't offer anything new and nothing TAMU doesn't already.

The thing is, if you think about that, it means something a little different to the Big12.

Precisely.

Random SEC games not involving A&M are getting much better ratings in Houston now than random Big 12 games not involving Texas.

The big CBS game always did well there before A&M joined. Claiming that as some shift is highly suspect. Other than that they haven't done any better.

Average regular season ratings without A&M, UT, or LSU (who also did well historically in Houston) on networks other than CBS's game of the week:

SEC
1.11
(Drops to 1.07 without Bama)

Big 12:
1.23

(Take out OU as well and you get 1.13)


The teams that would realistically draw interest in Houston (not ISU, KU, or WVU) do well. Without the weak 3 or Big 2: 1.52

Quote:And Texas A&M games are dwarfing Texas games in Houston.

Not really. Yes the monster rating that LSU helps vault them to or the anticipated Bama matchup do a lot but not nearly as much as one would expect. Outside of those 2 matchups they aren't really killing it compared to UT the last 2 years.


Last 2 regular season averages against teams other than LSU, Bama, Oklahoma:

Texas- 4.1
A&M- 4.784

That is with A&M peaking and UT struggling to the point they fired their coach.

UT in 2009 for a comparison with A&M (not including UT-A&M or UT-OU or the Nebraska title game: 8.62

UT 2011 with same restrictions: 6.975

A&M the last 2 years was 6.55 with LSU & Bama spiking the average.

Quote:The one thing we can offer the Big 12 right now is more telecasts that Houstonians care about and will watch. But I doubt that's enough, by itself, to warrant a Big 12 invite.

The TV ratings phenomenon has not spilled over into recruiting. SEC teams have not made a lot of headway in Houston area recruiting.

If that starts to happen, and Big 12 teams are losing Houston area recruits to SEC teams, then UH becomes more attractive. The Big 12 schools would want to make trips to play games down here on a more frequent basis to help their recruiting.

Until that happens I don't see any real benefit vs another UH-like team in a new market like Florida, Ohio, or others. Nothing against UH but from a "what does the league need most?" perspective I struggle to see otherwise.

(06-14-2014 09:52 PM)FreshPrinceOfDarkness Wrote:  Let's see A&M's ratings after the Manziel years before declaring Houston SEC country. Because except for the Manziel years, A&M has never owned the Houston TV market over UT. And except for Houston and San Antonio tv markets, A&M ratings lagged both UT and Texas Tech in every Big 12 Texas tv ratings market. (Fyi, Tech was #3 in Houston).

I'm guessing you weren't in Houston in the 90's and around the turn of the century.

How are ratings for the best Baylor teams since the 80s drawing?

(06-14-2014 09:18 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  25 years later, the city of Houston has grown tremendously. As has our alumni base. If you put Houston in the Big 12 or SEC, we would instantly sell out our brand new 40,000 seat stadium and start planning for expansion.

Really----- UH and their 40k students/200k+ alumni couldn't couldn't put 34K in 71 seat Reliant Stadium against BYU. If you put UH in the Big 12/SEC, that new stadium will be filled with opposing fans.

Texas-tech=?

(06-14-2014 11:08 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Texas-tech=?

Still more than the pathetic pony fans can put in Ford.

(06-14-2014 10:14 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  How are ratings for the best Baylor teams since the 80s drawing?

Better than one would expect for what is maybe our 3rd best market. 2.17 for our non-UT/OU games this past season. That is with horrible ratings for the Buffalo and ULM games tanking the average on FS1 & FSN is crowded tv windows. 3.18 in the middle games.

We do better in DFW and obviously in our home market of Waco as well.

Sorry coogs, but you can see here why you're never getting the Big 12 invite either.

They are convinced that A&M is doomed and that the Big 12 will win back the hearts and minds of Houston on their own with no help needed.

(06-14-2014 09:18 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(06-14-2014 06:09 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  I like Houston. I grew up there. I still support Houston and Rice, but the simple truth is Houston has never carried large support from the local community. Even during the late 80's and early 90's they struggled for fan support. I remember when Andre Ware and the Cougars pounded SMU for 95 points in 1989, and there was only 20K in the dome. Houston beat Texas that season. They had an amazing offense.

And TCU drew 19,212 for a Top 25 Houston club when we visited Ft. Worth in 1989. Where is TCU today? Point: Attendance from that era is meaningless today.

But to address your point, Houston was on probation that year. Ineligible for the conference title. And SMU was in it's first year back after the death penalty. No one wanted to see that massacre. It would be like watching a college team play a HS team.

Despite the probation, we drew 30K for Tech and Baylor that season, and 45K for Texas.

25 years later, the city of Houston has grown tremendously. As has our alumni base. If you put Houston in the Big 12 or SEC, we would instantly sell out our brand new 40,000 seat stadium and start planning for expansion.

I was at that game with SMU. It was amazing. I went to plenty of Houston games back then. My brother attended U of H. Against the better SWC teams, way more of the fans at the Dome were there to see the visiting teams. If I had to guess, I'd say around 15 to 18K in the crowd were actually there to see Houston back then.

Today Houston is doing a much better job of attracting fans, and the new stadium looks nice. But, I still can't see Houston getting a call form the SEC any time soon.

Houston already belongs to the SEC. Texas A&M and LSU dominate that market.

(06-14-2014 11:26 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Sorry coogs, but you can see here why you're never getting the Big 12 invite either.

They are convinced that A&M is doomed and that the Big 12 will win back the hearts and minds of Houston on their own with no help needed.

Nobody here said A&M is doomed but Aggies sure love to portray the Big 12 as if it was doomed.

(06-14-2014 11:32 PM)Waterloo Wrote:  Houston already belongs to the SEC. Texas A&M and LSU dominate that market.

LOL-- Really----- it took Manziel and Bama to finally surpass the 08 Texas@ Texas Tech game. Outside of A&M the last 2 years, no one from the SEC dominates Houston TV ratings. To my best knowledge, here are the top 50 highest rated college games in Houston according to the Houston Chronicle.

09.17.2013 Bama-A&M CBS 17.3
2008 UT-Tech ABC 16.2
2009 UT-Neb ABC 15.7
2012 A&M-OU FOX 14.9 Cotton
2009 UT-A&M ESPN 13.8
2009 Flor-Ala CBS 12.3
2008 Tech-OU ABC 11.6
2008 UT-OU ABC 10.9
2009 Tech-UT ABC 10.9
2008 UT-OU ABC 10.9
2009 Tech-UT ABC 10.9
2009 UT-OU ABC 10.8
2011 UH-USM ABC 10.6 CUSA championship game
11.23.2013 A&M-LSU CBS 10.3
2008 OSU-UT ABC 10.2
2008 OSU-UT ABC 10.2
2012 A&M-Alabama CBS 9.6
2011 OU-UT ABC 9.5
2008 OSU-Tech ABC 9.4
2008 OU-OSU ABC 9.3
2008 Flor-Ala CBS 9.1
2009 KU-UT ABC 9
2009 UT-OSU ABC 8.9
2013 Chick A&M-Duke ESPN 8.6
2011 OSU-A&M ABC 8.4
2013 Fiesta Baylor-UCF ESPN 8.2
2011 UT-Bay ABC 8.2
2012 Ala-Geor CBS 7.93
2009 Tech-Hou ESPN2 7.9
2011 UT-A&M ESPN 7.9
2009 UT-Mizz ABC 7.7
2011 OSU-UT ABC 7.7
2008 Mizz-OU ABC 7.6
2008 Mizz-OU ABC 7.6
11.09.2013 Miss St-Tx A&M CBS 7.5
11.09.2013 LSU-Alabama CBS 7.5
2011 LSU-GA CBS 7.4
2011 UT-UCLA ABC 7.3
2011 Okla-Flor St ABC 7.3
2011 UT-UCLA ABC 7.3
2011 Okla-Flor St ABC 7.3
10.14.2013 Texas-OU ABC 7.1
2012 Flo-A&M ESPN 7.1
2009 Flor-LSU CBS 6.8
2012 UT-Oreg St ESPN 6.8 Alamo
10.14.2013 A&M-Ole Miss ESPN 6.7
2009 Tech-Neb ABC 6.7
2012 Ala-LSU CBS 6.7
11.30.2013 Alabama-Aub CBS 6.6
2009 Col-UT ESPN 6.6