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What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
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Bull Offline
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Post: #21
RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-12-2014 09:14 PM)CyberBull Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 06:24 PM)Bull Wrote:  BAM!!!!!

Cue the usual too-much-time-on-their-hands internet trolls to remind us we're NOT a 'Power' conference in 3... 2... 1...

Hey, what's on that card is MY metric for defining Power. The ancillary things like TV $$ and bowls WILL improve shortly if we keep performing like this... no doubt.

How will they "improve shortly"?

ESPN is under no pressure to re-work our contract and the P5 are trying the best to separate. We don't have an access bowl anchor bowl nor do we enjoy a huge TV contract. Plus when our best teams (USF included) would love nothing more than to join a P5 conference....I just don't see a scenario where either ESPN is going to suddenly give us a $20-million per team contract....or Mike Slive and Jim Delany are going to say "welcome to the club Mr. Aresco".

Call me cynical but I am just being realistic. Instead I am going to enjoy each season for the action on the field.... and not worry about the unrealistic notion of somehow attaining power conference status.

4 It's not that we are not deserving....but rather that the system is rigged against those not in a p5 conference. For me it's about watching football...instead of watching twitter for the latest B12 expansion rumor.

Come on Cyber, I didn't say we'd get 20 million per team. I said they would improve. We (purposefully) signed a very short deal with ESPN, and it *does* have a look in renegotiate window coming up soon. ESPN will up the $$ if we trade for a longer deal, which benefits ESPN. This happens all the time. Most of us generally agree we signed that deal in the weakest position of any conference in history and ended up undervalued. If we continue to perform, and we're willing to sign longer term, we'll get 'more' per team. Improvement.

The bowl cycle is short enough, and the P5 have oversubscribed themselves... With continued performance, great exposure, more TV $$ (by then), I fully expect an improved bowl position next round.

This may all get juiced even a bit better if BYU, etc. join. And that's starting to look pretty likely, provided we don't get raided soon, which also appears likely.

I realize we won't become a 'widely accepted' power conference, but I fully expect we'll become the established #6, get enough $$ to at least stay within striking distance of the big boys. Improvement.

Sorry buddy, but if you want contract bowl slot and 20 million per... yeah, I agree it's rigged to ensure we will never get that.

AAC teams keep winning, and Aresco keep making these graphics. 04-rock
06-13-2014 07:16 AM
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StillJonesing Offline
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Post: #22
RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-12-2014 06:10 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  04-cheers04-cheers04-cheers04-cheers04-cheers04-cheers04-cheers04-cheers

[Image: 10382123_10152437625654831_4153344712913548297_o.jpg]


04-bow04-bow04-bow04-bow04-bow04-bow04-bow

That's still pretty awesome and perfect to make a splash in year one. It's nice the effort is being made to put it in peoples face if for nothing more than push back on the perception.
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2014 07:49 AM by StillJonesing.)
06-13-2014 07:49 AM
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Post: #23
RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-12-2014 06:10 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  04-cheers04-cheers04-cheers04-cheers04-cheers04-cheers04-cheers04-cheers

[Image: 10382123_10152437625654831_4153344712913548297_o.jpg]


04-bow04-bow04-bow04-bow04-bow04-bow04-bow

[Image: Pat+your+back.png]
06-13-2014 07:55 AM
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mac6115cd Offline
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Post: #24
RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-12-2014 06:20 PM)CyberBull Wrote:  $$$$$$$ = Power Conference

You may not be happy USF is in the AAC, but you need to realize that you're going to be here for a long time - so you should make the most of it.

Support your team and this conference. We may never reach the $20M/year mark, but we don't have to - we just need to maximize what we get, continue to win and negotiate for more when the time comes.
06-13-2014 07:57 AM
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Post: #25
RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-12-2014 09:56 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  To answer the question in the title of the thread..........ESPiN and the acolytes on the internets deeming us so will make us a power conference. Also, securing a "contract" bowl will do the trick. The $$$$ that people are gripping about will most assuredly follow all of the above.


Winning has ZERO effect on the AAC becoming a power conference. None.

I wouldn't say it has zero effect. If we lose all of our games versus P5 opponents we have no chance. That my friend is a fact. If we win those games on a regular basis the perception of the league will change. It is very slow process but it will change. Whether or not that equates to power status is anyones guess but you have to win to even be in the discussion.
06-13-2014 08:10 AM
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YNot Online
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Post: #26
RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-12-2014 06:27 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  It's sad when actual winning on the field doesn't define power but the amount of dollars on some tv contract.

I would argue that winning is exactly what has defined the power conferences. There is a reason why the SEC is viewed by many as the toughest and most elite conference. They win. The programs that define the P5 - Texas, USC, Ohio St., Alabama, LSU, Oklahoma, Oregon, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc. have all won and won a lot throughout the history of college football. It's the top 20-25 universities that hold the real market power, and their conference mates benefit by their association.

So, if the American keeps winning in football and men's basketball, the fans and TV viewers, and consequently, the contracts and "power" label, will follow. This is why the American experiment is so intriguing. It has teams scattered across the country in prime markets. It might take 5+ year, but you continue to win, you're in.

If their is the success that leads to commanding more TV revenue and more attractive bowl affiliations, the American has the potential to rise. The hard part, IMO, will be for the American to retain any teams that have sustained success. If Central Florida or Cincinnati (for example) win consistently and hold up some New Year's Six bowl trophies, they will likely be gobbled up by the P5. That may be the silver bullet that keeps the American down.

(By the way, the only sports that matter on the graphic are football and men's basketball. Women's basketball and baseball are afterthoughts, and winning women's NCAA or college world series does little to move the needle that counts)
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2014 09:10 AM by YNot.)
06-13-2014 09:04 AM
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wavefan12 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-12-2014 06:27 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  It's sad when actual winning on the field doesn't define power but the amount of dollars on some tv contract.

First you get the wins, then you get the rating then you get the money. We negotiated the contract at a time of instability, the real value is much more. We can only hope the look-in is legit.
06-13-2014 09:32 AM
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Post: #28
RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-13-2014 09:32 AM)wavefan12 Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 06:27 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  It's sad when actual winning on the field doesn't define power but the amount of dollars on some tv contract.

First you get the wins, then you get the rating then you get the money. We negotiated the contract at a time of instability, the real value is much more. We can only hope the look-in is legit.

ESPiN will never allow us (AAC) to become a power conference. They led the charge to denigrate the BE and their acolytes in print and on the internets followed suit. Thus, in the minds of "everyone", the AAC is not and will not ever be a power conference.
06-13-2014 11:21 AM
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chrisRU Offline
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RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
What makes a power conference?
1) A commissioner who can say with a straight face that the conference is not completely powerless to having teams picked off if a P5 comes calling.
2) A contract bowl.
3) A $$$$ TV contract.
4) A solid GOR.

Has nothing to do with what happens on the field. Conferences have NEVER been formed on the basis of winning and losing and only for the mutual (usually financial) benefit of member institutions.
06-13-2014 11:53 AM
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FrancisDrake Offline
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Post: #30
RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-13-2014 11:53 AM)chrisRU Wrote:  What makes a power conference?
1) A commissioner who can say with a straight face that the conference is not completely powerless to having teams picked off if a P5 comes calling.
2) A contract bowl.
3) A $$$$ TV contract.
4) A solid GOR.

Has nothing to do with what happens on the field. Conferences have NEVER been formed on the basis of winning and losing and only for the mutual (usually financial) benefit of member institutions.

I would say that a GOR actually does just the opposite. If you have a GOR its bc you were worried you would lose a team or three. The SEC doesn't have a GOR, they don't need one. That's power.
06-13-2014 12:48 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #31
RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-13-2014 11:53 AM)chrisRU Wrote:  What makes a power conference?
1) A commissioner who can say with a straight face that the conference is not completely powerless to having teams picked off if a P5 comes calling.
2) A contract bowl.
3) A $$$$ TV contract.
4) A solid GOR.

Has nothing to do with what happens on the field. Conferences have NEVER been formed on the basis of winning and losing and only for the mutual (usually financial) benefit of member institutions.

Two things. One, a true power conference has anchor teams. We don't and never will. Second point. While we may never be a true power conference (no anchor programs), we can be similar to a power conference if our overall average conference wide attendance mimics a power conference. If we can get our average attendance to between 40-50K, we will have a league that can probably attain 2 or 3 of your above bullet points (#2, #3, and possibly even #4). So for us, the key is improving attendance across the board. Winning will help--but the attendance numbers have to improve significantly for us to get where we want to be.
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2014 01:26 PM by Attackcoog.)
06-13-2014 01:23 PM
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YNot Online
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Post: #32
RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-13-2014 01:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Two things. One, a true power conference has anchor teams. We don't and never will. Second point. While we may never be a true power conference (no anchor programs), we can be similar to a power conference if our overall average conference wide attendance mimics a power conference. If we can get our average attendance to between 40-50K, we will have a league that can probably attain 2 or 3 of your above bullet points (#2, #3, and possibly even #4). So for us, the key is improving attendance across the board. Winning will help--but the attendance numbers have to improve significantly for us to get where we want to be.

Unfortunately, the P5 will likely gobble up any potential anchor team before they can become an anchor.

IMO, the 50K attendance mark will need to be reached in order to become a power. Most P5 schools have at least 50K attendance. There are some exceptions, like TCU, Utah, and Oregon St. (45K capacity) and Washington St. (32K capacity). But they have Texas (100K), Oklahoma (82K) and USC (93K) and UCLA (92K) to bring the average way up.

This means that SMU (32K), Navy (34K), Cincy (35K), Tulsa (35K), UConn and Houston (40K), UCF (45K), and ECU (50K) are either at maximum capacity or expand their stadiums and some schools in the conference are averaging 60+ per game. Right now, Tulane, Temple, USF, and Memphis have 60K+ capacity.
06-13-2014 01:41 PM
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Post: #33
RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-13-2014 01:41 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(06-13-2014 01:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Two things. One, a true power conference has anchor teams. We don't and never will. Second point. While we may never be a true power conference (no anchor programs), we can be similar to a power conference if our overall average conference wide attendance mimics a power conference. If we can get our average attendance to between 40-50K, we will have a league that can probably attain 2 or 3 of your above bullet points (#2, #3, and possibly even #4). So for us, the key is improving attendance across the board. Winning will help--but the attendance numbers have to improve significantly for us to get where we want to be.

Unfortunately, the P5 will likely gobble up any potential anchor team before they can become an anchor.

Yep, that's what has happened in the past, no reason to think the future will be different.

That's why we're all in a race, a race to be the first AAC to really stick out from the crowd. I sure hope USF admins have that mindset. 07-coffee3
06-13-2014 01:43 PM
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Post: #34
RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-13-2014 01:41 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(06-13-2014 01:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Two things. One, a true power conference has anchor teams. We don't and never will. Second point. While we may never be a true power conference (no anchor programs), we can be similar to a power conference if our overall average conference wide attendance mimics a power conference. If we can get our average attendance to between 40-50K, we will have a league that can probably attain 2 or 3 of your above bullet points (#2, #3, and possibly even #4). So for us, the key is improving attendance across the board. Winning will help--but the attendance numbers have to improve significantly for us to get where we want to be.

Unfortunately, the P5 will likely gobble up any potential anchor team before they can become an anchor.

IMO, the 50K attendance mark will need to be reached in order to become a power. Most P5 schools have at least 50K attendance. There are some exceptions, like TCU, Utah, and Oregon St. (45K capacity) and Washington St. (32K capacity). But they have Texas (100K), Oklahoma (82K) and USC (93K) and UCLA (92K) to bring the average way up.

This means that SMU (32K), Navy (34K), Cincy (35K), Tulsa (35K), UConn and Houston (40K), UCF (45K), and ECU (50K) are either at maximum capacity or expand their stadiums and some schools in the conference are averaging 60+ per game. Right now, Tulane, Temple, USF, and Memphis have 60K+ capacity.

Just a couple quick corrects but Cincinnati is making additions to their stadium jumping the capacity to 40K. They also have the Bengals stadium three miles from campus which seats 66K.

Tulane is building and moving into a new 30K on-campus stadium starting this season.

Tulsa's stadium only seats 30K.
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2014 01:49 PM by CliftonAve.)
06-13-2014 01:47 PM
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RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
This means that some schools really need to step it up.

Temple = 25K average last 3 seasons. 34% of its 73K capacity.
Memphis = 24K average last 3 seasons. 38% of its 62K capacity.
Tulsa = 20K average last 3 seasons. 57% of its 35.5K capacity.
SMU = 19.5K average last 3 seasons. 60% of its 32K capacity.
USF = 40.5K average last 3 seasons. 62% of its 65K capacity
Houston = 27K average last 3 seasons. 68% of its 40K capacity.
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2014 02:15 PM by YNot.)
06-13-2014 01:59 PM
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RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
Let's face it. What truly makes the Power 5 members more worthy, at least in their eyes, is budget and support. If the AAC schools increased their fanbases and the fanbases in turn supported the schools better financially, there wouldn't be any question.
06-13-2014 02:12 PM
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RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-13-2014 07:57 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 06:20 PM)CyberBull Wrote:  $$$$$$$ = Power Conference

You may not be happy USF is in the AAC, but you need to realize that you're going to be here for a long time - so you should make the most of it.

Support your team and this conference. We may never reach the $20M/year mark, but we don't have to - we just need to maximize what we get, continue to win and negotiate for more when the time comes.

USF is lucky to be in this league. When they joined the Big East they had never even won a bowl game. They should not feel entitled at all. TV market got them in a BCS conference, not winning on the field. Pure and simple.

People need to remember where they came from
06-13-2014 03:04 PM
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Bull Offline
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RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-13-2014 03:04 PM)First Mate Wrote:  
(06-13-2014 07:57 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 06:20 PM)CyberBull Wrote:  $$$$$$$ = Power Conference

You may not be happy USF is in the AAC, but you need to realize that you're going to be here for a long time - so you should make the most of it.

Support your team and this conference. We may never reach the $20M/year mark, but we don't have to - we just need to maximize what we get, continue to win and negotiate for more when the time comes.

USF is lucky to be in this league. When they joined the Big East they had never even won a bowl game. They should not feel entitled at all. TV market got them in a BCS conference, not winning on the field. Pure and simple.

People need to remember where they came from

WTF dude? Who said we feel entitled to anything? Not gonna apologize for taking the invite though, you'd have taken it too. Had a pretty good run until Holtz blew up our program. Take a deep breath and enjoy the weekend.
06-13-2014 04:07 PM
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RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-13-2014 01:59 PM)YNot Wrote:  This means that some schools really need to step it up.

Temple = 25K average last 3 seasons. 34% of its 73K capacity.
Memphis = 24K average last 3 seasons. 38% of its 62K capacity.
Tulsa = 20K average last 3 seasons. 57% of its 35.5K capacity.
SMU = 19.5K average last 3 seasons. 60% of its 32K capacity.
USF = 40.5K average last 3 seasons. 62% of its 65K capacity
Houston = 27K average last 3 seasons. 68% of its 40K capacity.

Capacity at the Liberty Bowl is now 59,308

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/201...l/?print=1

http://beamemphistiger.com/facilities/football/
06-13-2014 04:19 PM
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RE: What makes a "power" conference #AmericanRising image...
(06-13-2014 01:43 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-13-2014 01:41 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(06-13-2014 01:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Two things. One, a true power conference has anchor teams. We don't and never will. Second point. While we may never be a true power conference (no anchor programs), we can be similar to a power conference if our overall average conference wide attendance mimics a power conference. If we can get our average attendance to between 40-50K, we will have a league that can probably attain 2 or 3 of your above bullet points (#2, #3, and possibly even #4). So for us, the key is improving attendance across the board. Winning will help--but the attendance numbers have to improve significantly for us to get where we want to be.

Unfortunately, the P5 will likely gobble up any potential anchor team before they can become an anchor.

Yep, that's what has happened in the past, no reason to think the future will be different.

That's why we're all in a race, a race to be the first AAC to really stick out from the crowd. I sure hope USF admins have that mindset. 07-coffee3

Most anchor schools draw 80-100K per game. Im not suggesting (and in fact said) that we will NOT have ANY anchor schools. What Im suggesting is that we can begin to get TV contracts and bowl games that are more reminiscent of power conferences if we get our league wide average attendance to between 40-50K. I believe such a conference would have a sizable fan bases that would be attractive to bowls and networks. That's not something that will happen in a year or two. Its more of a long term goal. Frankly, any school looking to move up will need to accomplish that anyway---so there should be some motivation for all the schools in the conference to reach for numbers in that range regardless of its affect on the AAC's future position in college football.
06-13-2014 04:35 PM
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