(06-12-2014 05:58 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 04:08 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://mrsec.com/2014/06/division-iv-com...-lifeline/

Follow up article. Says XII should add UConn, SMU, BYU, and Cincy.

SMU over Houston? That's interesting. I figured since the Big 12 has a team in Fort Worth that they'd rather have the rich recruiting area of Houston over a team from Dallas.

Exactly.

Why the University of Texas already has the Dallas and Houston markets wrapped up!

(06-12-2014 06:11 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Why the University of Texas already has the Dallas and Houston markets wrapped up!

Moving to division 4 doesn't change the Big 12s TV contract which is already for 12 team and a championship game. So, why divide up the money 2 to 6 more ways? BYU and the Go5 schools are stuck unless the B1G decides it's worth unbalanced scheduling to go to 15. Otherwise they'll wait till big 12s GoR is is up in 2024-25 or the ACCs GoR is until 2026-27 for any possible expansion.

(06-12-2014 10:02 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 09:32 AM)EerMeNow Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 09:22 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://mrsec.com/2014/06/division-iv-cre...alignment/

Quote:If there is a new super-division created at the very tip top of the NCAA structure, you can bet that a number of schools now currently outside the Power Five will fight like mad to get an invitation and with good reason. If/when Division IV sets sail, everyone else will be left even further behind monetarily. And no school wants to be left behind.

So, if the richest athletic programs want to keep more money for themselves, would any non-Power Five school have a realistic chance of crashing a Power Five league? We believe they would for two reasons.

The first reason is even more money. If a Power Five league believes that adding another television market will help that conference in the long-term, they’ll add a school. If ESPN says adding a specific school will improve their TV contract, they’ll add a school. If a league like the Big 12 decides that re-launching its conference championship game will bring in additional millions revenue, it will add schools.

The second reason is power. We’ve discussed this on the site in recent weeks, but once a Division IV is formed, who will wield the most power? You can expect the SEC’s schools to vote together the vast majority of the time. Solidarity has been a hallmark — and a key to league success — under Roy Kramer and Slive. Ditto the Big Ten under Jim Delany. Pac-12 schools will likely fall in line behind commissioner Larry Scott, as well. Taking a bigger view, the Big Ten and Pac-12 have long worked together as their large, research-based universities share much in common. It’s not hard to imagine a Big Ten/Pac-12 voting bloc pushing for higher academic standards, an end to oversigning and less out-of-season work for players. The SEC and it’s new pal, the Big 12, might want to move in the opposite direction on all those fronts. Knowing that a consensus among 65 schools will be difficult to attain, Slive has suggested a 60% majority be necessary to adopt a new rule within Division IV. At MrSEC.com, we view the ACC — and its 15th member, Notre Dame — as the wild card in all of this. If the Big 12 and SEC vote together on an issue, that would be 24 schools. Fifteen other schools would need to vote along with the Big 12 and SEC schools in order to reach the number 39, which is exactly 60% of 65 schools. A Big Ten and Pac-12 bloc would need just 13 votes to reach the 60% barrier. Add it up and it becomes apparent that if a conference wants to have a greater say in the direction of the Power Five… it might want to add an additional institution to its roster and increase the number of votes it holds.

I saw this article yesterday. The second paragraph about power is very interesting. The schools within the Big 5 obviously have a shared economic interest. However, they have very different institutional missions that are going to be important in any new governing structure.

The one thing that gives me pause about the automatic assumption that the Big 12 will align with the SEC is that the widely acknowledged leader of the Big 12, Texas, is more in line with the Big Ten and Pac-12 on the various academic and recruiting standards than it is with the SEC (which is a major reason why Texas leadership has always rebuffed any courtships from the SEC while always keeping flirty eyes with the West Coast). I generally think that the Power 5 conferences are aligned on the vast majority of autonomy issues, but Mr. SEC (who I respect greatly) seems to be overstating how much anyone other than the SEC wants effectively open-season recruiting and oversigning.

Very true. Someone else brought up Vanderbilt but Vanderbilt is not the Alpha power in the SEC where as Texas absolutely is the Alpha in the Big 12. Vanderbilt is going to go along with some SEC policies that they may not be excited about where as Texas is going to stonewall new policies that they do not like.

This is just one more reason why I don't think that the Big 12 is sitting in as pretty of a position as some folks would like to believe. D4 opens the door.

(06-12-2014 06:51 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 06:11 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Why the University of Texas already has the Dallas and Houston markets wrapped up!

Moving to division 4 doesn't change the Big 12s TV contract which is already for 12 team and a championship game. So, why divide up the money 2 to 6 more ways? BYU and the Go5 schools are stuck unless the B1G decides it's worth unbalanced scheduling to go to 15. Otherwise they'll wait till big 12s GoR is is up in 2024-25 or the ACCs GoR is until 2026-27 for any possible expansion.

Don't know where that came from but the Big 12's TV contract is not for 12 teams and a championship game. The Big 12's tv contracts were re worked after TCU and West Virginia were added to the conference. ESPN asked the conference to renegotiate early and the conference received a signing bonus and greatly increased revenues as a result. The TV deals are for a 10 team conference. No championship game included. The Big Ten has no ability to magically pry away a Big 12 team and is looking east for expansion if any as they have told us by both words and actions.

(06-12-2014 06:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 05:58 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 04:08 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://mrsec.com/2014/06/division-iv-com...-lifeline/

Follow up article. Says XII should add UConn, SMU, BYU, and Cincy.

SMU over Houston? That's interesting. I figured since the Big 12 has a team in Fort Worth that they'd rather have the rich recruiting area of Houston over a team from Dallas.

Exactly.

Agreed.

But I believe you will find that Rice fits that bill for B12 while aligning more closely with UT's governance vision (vs the SEC's, which would by the same token do well to add UH)

(06-12-2014 06:11 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Why the University of Texas already has the Dallas and Houston markets wrapped up!

B12 certainly did, as a conference, until the Aggies left. If one of those two conferences adds one of the Houston schools, but the other does not, that gives them a clear market advantage in the city.

(06-12-2014 07:29 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 06:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 05:58 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 04:08 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://mrsec.com/2014/06/division-iv-com...-lifeline/

Follow up article. Says XII should add UConn, SMU, BYU, and Cincy.

SMU over Houston? That's interesting. I figured since the Big 12 has a team in Fort Worth that they'd rather have the rich recruiting area of Houston over a team from Dallas.

Exactly.

Agreed.

But I believe you will find that Rice fits that bill for B12 while aligning more closely with UT's governance vision (vs the SEC's, which would by the same token do well to add UH)

(06-12-2014 06:11 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Why the University of Texas already has the Dallas and Houston markets wrapped up!

B12 certainly did, as a conference, until the Aggies left. If one of those two conferences adds one of the Houston schools, but the other does not, that gives them a clear market advantage in the city.

There are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Big 12 fans in Houston. They won't dissappear because UH goes somewhere else or not.

(06-12-2014 08:03 PM)Tbringer Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 07:29 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 06:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 05:58 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 04:08 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://mrsec.com/2014/06/division-iv-com...-lifeline/

Follow up article. Says XII should add UConn, SMU, BYU, and Cincy.

SMU over Houston? That's interesting. I figured since the Big 12 has a team in Fort Worth that they'd rather have the rich recruiting area of Houston over a team from Dallas.

Exactly.

Agreed.

But I believe you will find that Rice fits that bill for B12 while aligning more closely with UT's governance vision (vs the SEC's, which would by the same token do well to add UH)

(06-12-2014 06:11 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Why the University of Texas already has the Dallas and Houston markets wrapped up!

B12 certainly did, as a conference, until the Aggies left. If one of those two conferences adds one of the Houston schools, but the other does not, that gives them a clear market advantage in the city.

There are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Big 12 fans in Houston. They won't dissappear because UH goes somewhere else or not.

There are only a handful of non-P5 schools that draw a TV audience of a million or more. Houston is one of them so there is a capacity to bring in some viewers B12 doesn't currently get.

(06-12-2014 08:09 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 08:03 PM)Tbringer Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 07:29 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 06:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 05:58 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  SMU over Houston? That's interesting. I figured since the Big 12 has a team in Fort Worth that they'd rather have the rich recruiting area of Houston over a team from Dallas.

Exactly.

Agreed.

But I believe you will find that Rice fits that bill for B12 while aligning more closely with UT's governance vision (vs the SEC's, which would by the same token do well to add UH)

(06-12-2014 06:11 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Why the University of Texas already has the Dallas and Houston markets wrapped up!

B12 certainly did, as a conference, until the Aggies left. If one of those two conferences adds one of the Houston schools, but the other does not, that gives them a clear market advantage in the city.

There are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Big 12 fans in Houston. They won't dissappear because UH goes somewhere else or not.

There are only a handful of non-P5 schools that draw a TV audience of a million or more. Houston is one of them so there is a capacity to bring in some viewers B12 doesn't currently get.

Houston and SMU could be enticing to the PAC12 moreso than the Big12. Getting a foothold into Texas, which likely becomes the most populous state and have more college TV eyeballs and recruits, is important to the Pac12. Houston and SMU add more than two of UNLV, Hawaii, SDSU, Boise St, New Mexico would.

the problem I see, is 65 is not enough,
these middle of road goes that get to 7-5 with weak OOC,
start going 5-7 with no bowl are gonna lose fans & donations
I venture to guess that MWC & AAC get dragged with power conf.

(06-12-2014 05:58 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 04:08 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://mrsec.com/2014/06/division-iv-com...-lifeline/

Follow up article. Says XII should add UConn, SMU, BYU, and Cincy.

SMU over Houston? That's interesting. I figured since the Big 12 has a team in Fort Worth that they'd rather have the rich recruiting area of Houston over a team from Dallas.

18K "rich" alumni over 40K commuters who wish they could have gone to Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A&M. Commuter/inner schools have always been the last resort. Recruits know that regardless of locale

(06-12-2014 11:27 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 08:09 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 08:03 PM)Tbringer Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 07:29 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 06:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Exactly.

Agreed.

But I believe you will find that Rice fits that bill for B12 while aligning more closely with UT's governance vision (vs the SEC's, which would by the same token do well to add UH)

(06-12-2014 06:11 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Why the University of Texas already has the Dallas and Houston markets wrapped up!

B12 certainly did, as a conference, until the Aggies left. If one of those two conferences adds one of the Houston schools, but the other does not, that gives them a clear market advantage in the city.

There are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Big 12 fans in Houston. They won't dissappear because UH goes somewhere else or not.

There are only a handful of non-P5 schools that draw a TV audience of a million or more. Houston is one of them so there is a capacity to bring in some viewers B12 doesn't currently get.

Houston and SMU could be enticing to the PAC12 moreso than the Big12. Getting a foothold into Texas, which likely becomes the most populous state and have more college TV eyeballs and recruits, is important to the Pac12. Houston and SMU add more than two of UNLV, Hawaii, SDSU, Boise St, New Mexico would.

Houston in the PAC might be the funniest thing I've read today.

(06-12-2014 05:58 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 12:37 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 12:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 10:05 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 10:02 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The one thing that gives me pause about the automatic assumption that the Big 12 will align with the SEC is that the widely acknowledged leader of the Big 12, Texas, is more in line with the Big Ten and Pac-12 on the various academic and recruiting standards than it is with the SEC (which is a major reason why Texas leadership has always rebuffed any courtships from the SEC while always keeping flirty eyes with the West Coast). I generally think that the Power 5 conferences are aligned on the vast majority of autonomy issues, but Mr. SEC (who I respect greatly) seems to be overstating how much anyone other than the SEC wants effectively open-season recruiting and oversigning.

Maybe FBS as a whole should just let the SEC break away.

Let them party like it is 1861.....

Careful TerryD. It always gets ugly on this board when someone starts talking about the War of Northern Aggression.

Those damn interloping Yankees!

I agree. Human rights are so overrated!

Big 12 isn't going to add any more TX teams. They need new markets and a precence outside the TX and the plains states more than anything else.

I agree with Mr SEC that they should take BYU Uconn and Cincy. One is a national fan base, one is a dominant BB power that plays well in NYC and the other is in recruit rich Ohio and helps WVU. But instead of any more TX schools, they should take one of the U_F schools (doesn't matter which one, either would thrive with power conference money) to have a presence in Florida.

Also, I think that UH to the PAC is not unreasonable if UH can overcome their own fan base and eventually average 50k+ for football and Sampson turns them around in basketball.

(06-13-2014 12:14 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 11:27 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 08:09 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 08:03 PM)Tbringer Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 07:29 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  Agreed.

But I believe you will find that Rice fits that bill for B12 while aligning more closely with UT's governance vision (vs the SEC's, which would by the same token do well to add UH)

B12 certainly did, as a conference, until the Aggies left. If one of those two conferences adds one of the Houston schools, but the other does not, that gives them a clear market advantage in the city.

There are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Big 12 fans in Houston. They won't dissappear because UH goes somewhere else or not.

There are only a handful of non-P5 schools that draw a TV audience of a million or more. Houston is one of them so there is a capacity to bring in some viewers B12 doesn't currently get.

Houston and SMU could be enticing to the PAC12 moreso than the Big12. Getting a foothold into Texas, which likely becomes the most populous state and have more college TV eyeballs and recruits, is important to the Pac12. Houston and SMU add more than two of UNLV, Hawaii, SDSU, Boise St, New Mexico would.

Houston in the PAC might be the funniest thing I've read today.

Larry Scott doesn't seem to think it's so funny he and PAC officials have visited the campus in the recent past.

(06-13-2014 08:18 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Big 12 isn't going to add any more TX teams. They need new markets and a precence outside the TX and the plains states more than anything else.

I agree with Mr SEC that they should take BYU Uconn and Cincy. One is a national fan base, one is a dominant BB power that plays well in NYC and the other is in recruit rich Ohio and helps WVU. But instead of any more TX schools, they should take one of the U_F schools (doesn't matter which one, either would thrive with power conference money) to have a presence in Florida.

Also, I think that UH to the PAC is not unreasonable if UH can overcome their own fan base and eventually average 50k+ for football and Sampson turns them around in basketball.

It would be an interesting move in that it would put the Big 12 into B1G territory with Cincinnati, ACC/SEC territory with one of the Florida schools, and battle for NYC with UCONN against the B1G and ACC.

(06-13-2014 12:04 AM)jml2010 Wrote:  18K "rich" alumni over 40K commuters who wish they could have gone to Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A&M. Commuter/inner schools have always been the last resort. Recruits know that regardless of locale

Don't make a blanket statement like this.

I had a full ride to UT and chose to pay to go to UH.

I may be the exception but we do exist.

College students in Texas don’t fall into just two categories. Those that “could” get into a P5 school and those that "couldn’t"……..

(06-13-2014 08:28 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(06-13-2014 12:04 AM)jml2010 Wrote:  18K "rich" alumni over 40K commuters who wish they could have gone to Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A&M. Commuter/inner schools have always been the last resort. Recruits know that regardless of locale

Don't make a blanket statement like this.

I had a full ride to UT and chose to pay to go to UH.

I may be the exception but we do exist.

College students in Texas don’t fall into just two categories. Those that “could” get into a P5 school and those that "couldn’t"……..

I could have attended any school in Arkansas for free easily. I chose Arkansas State because it was close to home and I knew it very well. The only other school I seriously considered was Missouri-Rolla.

Texas is no different. People choose colleges for many reasons.

This is a meme designed to boost egos that don't need boosting....and try to make people feel bad about their school choice.

I don't feel bad about my school choice and I'd choose it again right now.

(06-12-2014 12:37 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 12:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 10:05 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 10:02 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 09:32 AM)EerMeNow Wrote:  I saw this article yesterday. The second paragraph about power is very interesting. The schools within the Big 5 obviously have a shared economic interest. However, they have very different institutional missions that are going to be important in any new governing structure.

The one thing that gives me pause about the automatic assumption that the Big 12 will align with the SEC is that the widely acknowledged leader of the Big 12, Texas, is more in line with the Big Ten and Pac-12 on the various academic and recruiting standards than it is with the SEC (which is a major reason why Texas leadership has always rebuffed any courtships from the SEC while always keeping flirty eyes with the West Coast). I generally think that the Power 5 conferences are aligned on the vast majority of autonomy issues, but Mr. SEC (who I respect greatly) seems to be overstating how much anyone other than the SEC wants effectively open-season recruiting and oversigning.

Maybe FBS as a whole should just let the SEC break away.

Let them party like it is 1861.....

Careful TerryD. It always gets ugly on this board when someone starts talking about the War of Northern Aggression.

You mean the War of Southern Traitors to the Republic? :)

I think you know my views about the North and South being different entities that would be better off split apart.

I will refrain from any further political discussion, though.

How many days until college football season? :)

(06-13-2014 08:18 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Also, I think that UH to the PAC is not unreasonable if UH can overcome their own fan base and eventually average 50k+ for football and Sampson turns them around in basketball.

So, like every other G5 school near or inside the PAC 12's footprint, if Houston would simply transform their school into something superior (better athletics and academics) they might catch some interest from the PAC 12. Got it.