(06-11-2014 03:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 03:03 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 02:48 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The full dynamics would be interesting (if they even made it to the part to really consider that). That was millions in exit money, so I can't see the Big 12 simply dissolving until at least that was distributed to the remaining members. That said, it probably could have been worked out to get them the money in the settlement anyway and worse case senario you go a year or two before the merging.

Notice the alignment does not include Missouri (whom was rumored to the Big Ten at that point) in addition to Nebraska (off to the Big Ten), and the 6 the PAC-10 was pursuing then (Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Colorado). The SEC wasn't wholly in this picture yet at this point, but if Texas had decided on the PAC-10, I suspect Texas A&M would have still headed to the SEC. From there, my guess on the steps go like this:

1. The Big Ten likely goes bigger and takes Missouri in addition to Nebraska. They then settle on either Kansas, Rutgers, or an ACC school (Maryland most likely) for #14.

2. SEC takes Texas A&M and then decided between West Virginia, North Carolina State, and Virginia Tech (North Carolina and Virginia still firmly planted in the ACC).

3. PAC-10 replaces the Texas A&M invite with Kansas (if Big Ten doesn't take them) or Utah.

Wrong year. This article references 2011, not 2010. Utah, CU, as NU already moved by then.

Right, but since this is all hypothetical you could look at it from the 2010 perspective as well.

(3) is correct. The Pac-10 CEOs in 2010 authorized Scott in advance to invite either Kansas or Utah in the event UT said yes and TAMU said no.

(1) is possible given that (as confirmed by Ohio State's AD and president) the Big Ten CEOs, in 2010, discussed adding Nebraska, Kansas, and Missouri all at once, before deciding to invite only Nebraska.

If (1) and (3) both happened, who knows what the SEC would have done in addition to adding TAMU. If they watched the Pac become a 16-team league and the Big Ten become a 14-team league, IMO the SEC would have gone all out to pressure North Carolina into joining. The easiest way to do that, if the SEC could convince its own CEOs to go along, would have been to invite Florida State and then tell UNC that this was their last chance to get on board before the SEC added other ACC schools and then stopped at 16.

With 20/20 hindsight, adding Missouri and Kansas in 2010 would have been a masterstroke that dramatically altered subsequent moves. Rutgers and Maryland would still have been on the table, and could have given the B1G a sufficient jump on the SEC that they would likely have had to make a pitch for Texas and Oklahoma, and perhaps A&M and Kansas State as well.

That would have stranded Iowa State, Baylor, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State from the Big 12. Would that have been enough to encourage, Syracuse and Pitt to stay in the Big East and merge with the remnants of the Big 12 instead of jumping to the ACC?

(06-11-2014 03:37 PM)ken d Wrote:  Would that have been enough to encourage, Syracuse and Pitt to stay in the Big East and merge with the remnants of the Big 12 instead of jumping to the ACC?

Is that a serious question?

...because the answer is absolutely not.

(06-11-2014 03:55 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 03:37 PM)ken d Wrote:  Would that have been enough to encourage, Syracuse and Pitt to stay in the Big East and merge with the remnants of the Big 12 instead of jumping to the ACC?

Is that a serious question?

...because the answer is absolutely not.

I would have said highly unlikely, rather than absolutely not. My next question would have been if the BE lost those two, plus Rutgers to the B1G and Louisville to the ACC, would those Big 12 remnants (without Kansas) have been enough to have the remaining five BE football teams - West Virginia, UConn, Cincy, Temple and South Florida - to add the western schools, or might they have tried instead to may a go of a purely eastern conference with the likes of UCF, ECU and perhaps even Marshall?

Either way, they are still a candidate for Division Four, but they are not a candidate to remain a P5. For that, IMO, you have to have a legitimate perennial national contender (like Texas or Oklahoma) at the top of the ticket, and they would not have that. Respectable programs, yes, any of which would be at home in a P4. But they would definitely have a status lower than the weakest P4, the ACC.

this thread is nothing but tired head

if the Big 10 was making major moves to go to 14 or 16 immediately then Maryland and Rutgers would have been on the outside looking in.....ACC teams that mattered would have been in play for both the Big 10 and the SEC and there is a good chance that the remnants of the Big 12, BE and ACC would have tried to sort through who had the best current and enforceable media contract to all try and pick over who would have moved to there and who would be left out based on the money and based on how likely they thought they would be a "P" conference would be

bringing Rutgers and Maryland and others into the discussion or pretending that the ACC or the BE or whoever did not and does not have plenty of crap to try and jettison if things had fallen apart is laughable

I don't see the basketball schools staying. They were upset that the conference was shifting further south and west, as well as more football-centric. This results in better basketball, but even more than before, the Catholic schools would be an adjunct group in this Big East.

This is not even news. It was literally on the news ticker on ESPN that summer. I vividly remember it saying something like 'Kansas, K State, Iowa State, Baylor reach out to Big East for possible landing spot.' when everybody thought the PAC 16 was a foregone conclusion.

Marinatto was easily the worst major conference commissioner in recent memory. To say he was clueless about the daily operations of college football would be a massive understatement.

I cant see them leaving Houston out

(06-11-2014 03:37 PM)ken d Wrote:  With 20/20 hindsight, adding Missouri and Kansas in 2010 would have been a masterstroke that dramatically altered subsequent moves. Rutgers and Maryland would still have been on the table, and could have given the B1G a sufficient jump on the SEC that they would likely have had to make a pitch for Texas and Oklahoma, and perhaps A&M and Kansas State as well.

That would have stranded Iowa State, Baylor, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State from the Big 12. Would that have been enough to encourage, Syracuse and Pitt to stay in the Big East and merge with the remnants of the Big 12 instead of jumping to the ACC?

A better move would have been MO/VT. Yes, I know VT isn't AAU but is near it. Its profile is similar to many Big Ten universities. Most importantly, though, it gets the Big Ten into a state with a growing population, with a program who would offer a good Eastern rival to many of the traditional football powers, plus the B1G would still have the chance of finishing the move to the Atlantic Ocean with RU/UMD.

Cuse/Pitt would still make the move to the ACC but the SEC would be "forced" to ask FSU/CU to jump, since they wouldn't be able to flip UNC/UVA. That leaves the ACC to ask the rest of the Big East to jump. Cuse/Pitt/UConn/WVU/Louisville/USF/Cincinnati join at once. ND asks for and gets a partial deal of 4 games a year to shore up their schedule but joins for most other sports. UCF (or either Kansas/Iowa State) gets the coveted #16 spot.

I agree this proposed merger is not news, but the fact it was not discussed with the big east commis tells me it was really talks about the remaining big east FB teams joining the Big 12.

This is something the big 12 still could have done even after Mizzou left but Texas & okie stayed. The big east FB was down to WV, LV, Cincy, Uconn, Rutgers, USF. TCU had already joined the big 12 before Mizzou left. Temple had not yet joined the big east.

So at this point, the big 12 could have taken the remaining big east, ballooning the conference to 15, plus maybe Notre Dame non-football. Not sure if Rutgers backs out later for the big ten, shrinking it to 14

(06-11-2014 09:45 PM)Villecard Wrote:  Marinatto was easily the worst major conference commissioner in recent memory. To say he was clueless about the daily operations of college football would be a massive understatement.

This post about Meatball is a understatement...he is even worse than you just posted.....just saying....

(06-11-2014 01:32 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 11:55 AM)Tbringer Wrote:  Things might have been very different if that conference had come to pass. ND for one may have remained involved along with the BE bb schools.

Revenue wise they probably could have kept up with the ACC at least.

It probably would have merited
The original BE offer from ESPN but the ACC would probably outpace it. I don't see the hypothetical Frankenstein league getting 17mm per fb member.

Back at that time VT was more or less ruling the ACC roost and they werent one of the better top teams from a conference. FSU was a shadow of its former self. meanwhile both WVU and Cincinnati and Louisville and even Rutgers were very good with three of those in BCS bowls, and UConn too I believe. Kansas had recently defeated VT in a BCS bowl and K State had won championships and won BCS bowls-- The market territory for the BE would have been far larger.....dont see bc, Duke, Wake, UNC, UVa, a Miami that was in trouble, Pitt and SU being worth more. Perhaps since some were attempting to tear apart the BE and the Big 12 at the time, but there were as many name brands with a combination of the two to at least be on par---at the time the old BE offer wasnt too far behind.

at the time, BE was at 9 with TCU joining, the plan was Kansas, KSU & ISU leaving Baylor behind.
B-12 had the money to pull in BE schools, Midwest schools would have wanted Hous
Kansas was pushing for Memphis BB, that would have made 15
16 would have came from [UCF, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU, UTEP]
since than 4 schools have left

(06-12-2014 09:20 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  at the time, BE was at 9 with TCU joining, the plan was Kansas, KSU & ISU leaving Baylor behind.
B-12 had the money to pull in BE schools, Midwest schools would have wanted Hous
Kansas was pushing for Memphis BB, that would have made 15
16 would have came from [UCF, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU, UTEP]
since than 4 schools have left

Going off published reports that isn't correct. TCU had not joined in 2010 when Self would have been talking. They were set to join in 2011 when Luck was talking. Also I have never heard of UH being included on this deal had the B12 broken up.

Had things fallen apart in 2010- KU, KSU, ISU, Mizzou likely invited. (TCU had not joined until later that year). I saw other reports with BU included as well but we'll go with the pessimistic outlook.
Had things fallen apart 2011- KU, KSU, ISU, BU, UCF likely invited (TCU had been invited by that time)

So the leagues would have shaken out like this:

2010:
UCONN, Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Cincinnati, UL, USF, KU, KSU, ISU, Missouri (Possible invites to BU, TCU, UCF, Memphis depending on which "source" is talking)


2011:
BU, TCU, KU, KSU, ISU, UL, UC, WVU, Rutgers, UConn, USF, UCF


So it was a matter of when as to which outcome took place.

(06-11-2014 11:18 AM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  Interesting comments.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-expansion

Had Tx/TxTech, Ok and OSU moved to the PAC, elements of the two leagues were talking about merging.

West: Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, Louisville and TCU
East: Cincinnati, UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, South Florida and Central Florida.

Honestly, I'm sorry this didn't happen. It would have kept UH in CUSA and Baylor/TCU would have become an afterthought in Texas.

I still believe the Texoma 4 leave assuming no threat of lawsuits. For the Big 12 to dissolve, it will take 8 votes. The Texoma 4(Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma St),West Virginia and maybe Kansas end up safely in a P4 conference. I think K-State and Iowa St find a spot as well. That leaves the 2 small Texas privates begging for a home and I'm OK with that.

Maybe they can renew 100 year old rivalries with their friends in Houston and Dallas.

(06-12-2014 08:17 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 11:18 AM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  Interesting comments.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-expansion

Had Tx/TxTech, Ok and OSU moved to the PAC, elements of the two leagues were talking about merging.

West: Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, Louisville and TCU
East: Cincinnati, UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, South Florida and Central Florida.

Honestly, I'm sorry this didn't happen. It would have kept UH in CUSA and Baylor/TCU would have become an afterthought in Texas.

I still believe the Texoma 4 leave assuming no threat of lawsuits. For the Big 12 to dissolve, it will take 8 votes. The Texoma 4(Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma St),West Virginia and maybe Kansas end up safely in a P4 conference. I think K-State and Iowa St find a spot as well. That leaves the 2 small Texas privates begging for a home and I'm OK with that.

Maybe they can renew 100 year old rivalries with their friends in Houston and Dallas.

Oh JML, hating BU, TCU, Houston, and others more than he even likes Tech. How predictable.

(06-12-2014 08:30 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 08:17 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 11:18 AM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  Interesting comments.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-expansion

Had Tx/TxTech, Ok and OSU moved to the PAC, elements of the two leagues were talking about merging.

West: Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, Louisville and TCU
East: Cincinnati, UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, South Florida and Central Florida.

Honestly, I'm sorry this didn't happen. It would have kept UH in CUSA and Baylor/TCU would have become an afterthought in Texas.

I still believe the Texoma 4 leave assuming no threat of lawsuits. For the Big 12 to dissolve, it will take 8 votes. The Texoma 4(Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma St),West Virginia and maybe Kansas end up safely in a P4 conference. I think K-State and Iowa St find a spot as well. That leaves the 2 small Texas privates begging for a home and I'm OK with that.

Maybe they can renew 100 year old rivalries with their friends in Houston and Dallas.

Oh JML, hating BU, TCU, Houston, and others more than he even likes Tech. How predictable.

SHOCKED I TELL YA!

(06-12-2014 08:30 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 08:17 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 11:18 AM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  Interesting comments.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-expansion

Had Tx/TxTech, Ok and OSU moved to the PAC, elements of the two leagues were talking about merging.

West: Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, Louisville and TCU
East: Cincinnati, UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, South Florida and Central Florida.

Honestly, I'm sorry this didn't happen. It would have kept UH in CUSA and Baylor/TCU would have become an afterthought in Texas.

I still believe the Texoma 4 leave assuming no threat of lawsuits. For the Big 12 to dissolve, it will take 8 votes. The Texoma 4(Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma St),West Virginia and maybe Kansas end up safely in a P4 conference. I think K-State and Iowa St find a spot as well. That leaves the 2 small Texas privates begging for a home and I'm OK with that.

Maybe they can renew 100 year old rivalries with their friends in Houston and Dallas.

Oh JML, hating BU, TCU, Houston, and others more than he even likes Tech. How predictable.

Sammy--- as a mod, you should be unbiased. I graduated from Texas Tech, love Texas Tech and root for my alma mater in everything.

I will never apologize that I hope Baylor & TCU join Houston in the aac. I'm quite positive a bunch on here would like to see Texas Tech relegated to the MWC. It is what it is.

What would Tech be without Texas?

(06-12-2014 09:23 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  What would Tech be without Texas?

Pony--- Hey bud, how is everything in the Hill Country? I hope June coaches smew forever.

For the record, in the PAC where we belong.