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If we got BYU TV money
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LimaBean Offline
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Post: #21
RE: If we got BYU TV money
(06-11-2014 09:57 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  On the one hand, you're correct that beer and soft drink advertising isn't very effective on a Mormon audience. On the other hand, Mormons have the highest income and educational levels of any Christian group and BYU specifically has a disproportionate number of high income alums, so that's a net positive for advertising from a pure discretionary income standpoint for bigger ticket items like iPhones and luxury cars. I would imagine the BYU audience looks like the average golf TV viewing audience that doesn't drink beer or Coke, which is actually pretty valuable based on income.

Still, as someone else pointed out, the age of the audience (the younger, the better) is by far the greatest factor for advertising dollars (more than income, educational levels, religious preferences, gender, race, etc.). The age 18-49 rating is what networks really care about (the total viewership number that networks use in press releases is actually irrelevant - viewers over 50, unless they're really really really rich like the golf viewing audience mentioned earlier, are effectively worthless with respect to advertising revenue) and the biggest advertising premiums of all are for the age 18-34 rating.

As usual - thoughtful and interesting post Frank. Any ideas 'why' on the bolded above? Over 50s probably have the most 'disposable income' of all those age groups. Not 'taken in' by the advertisers? Already have a lifetime of 'stuff?' Ideas / research for this?


The over 50 crowd is not as easily influenced or concerned with keeping up with the shiny new trends so they are not as susceptible to direct marketing.
06-11-2014 10:36 AM
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KNIGHTTIME Offline
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Post: #22
RE: If we got BYU TV money
(06-11-2014 09:38 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 02:01 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  ESPN is rumored to pay BYU $7M a year for the rights to its home games.

Last year, ESPN televised 5 BYU home games, and those games drew 5.19M households. Essentially, ESPN paid BYU $1.35 for every household it delivered.

Last year, 28.3M viewers watched current American schools over 34 games under contract. I did not double count conference games.

If we were paid the same per household delivered as BYU, our TV contract would be worth $38.25M last year.

ESPN got quite the deal on us. But it also shows that we aren't in line for bump from $20M a year to $70M a year. More like $40M a year.

5.19 for all games! That's not a lot of viewers especially how BYU claims they have all this national following.

UCF vs SMU had over 1 million at a noon time slot. That isn't too bad considering smu was around .500 or below.
06-11-2014 10:50 AM
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KnightLight Offline
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Post: #23
RE: If we got BYU TV money
(06-11-2014 10:36 AM)LimaBean Wrote:  The over 50 crowd is not as easily influenced or concerned with keeping up with the shiny new trends so they are not as susceptible to direct marketing.

However, Baby Boomers, percentage wise, now have the largest share of disposable income (over 70%).

Baby Boomers after the age of 50, will on average, purchase 7 more new cars in their lifetime.

While 65 yr old plus crowd makes up just 15% of today's population (compared to 23% for under 18 yr old market), 65 yr olds will become a larger market/population group than those 18 yr and unders by 2050 or so (around 22%).

Those 50 and older are the largest target group for top of some top of the line products in many markets (home appliances, multiple car lines, homes, etc...).

With technology, its much easier for advertisers today to target market baby boomers (born 1946-1964) than ever before...as the effectiveness of TV marketing is declining (due to increased DVR use).

In regards to college sports, the largest demographic group (20%) is for those 45-54 years old....while all the other groups from 25 to 65 + are all basically the same:


Age:
12% Age18-24
17% Age 25-34
18% Age 35-44
20% Age 45-54
16% Age 55-64
17% Age 65+

Race:
80% White
13% African Am.
10% Hispanic
3% Asian
06-11-2014 10:53 AM
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KNIGHTTIME Offline
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Post: #24
RE: If we got BYU TV money
(06-11-2014 10:36 AM)LimaBean Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 09:57 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  On the one hand, you're correct that beer and soft drink advertising isn't very effective on a Mormon audience. On the other hand, Mormons have the highest income and educational levels of any Christian group and BYU specifically has a disproportionate number of high income alums, so that's a net positive for advertising from a pure discretionary income standpoint for bigger ticket items like iPhones and luxury cars. I would imagine the BYU audience looks like the average golf TV viewing audience that doesn't drink beer or Coke, which is actually pretty valuable based on income.

Still, as someone else pointed out, the age of the audience (the younger, the better) is by far the greatest factor for advertising dollars (more than income, educational levels, religious preferences, gender, race, etc.). The age 18-49 rating is what networks really care about (the total viewership number that networks use in press releases is actually irrelevant - viewers over 50, unless they're really really really rich like the golf viewing audience mentioned earlier, are effectively worthless with respect to advertising revenue) and the biggest advertising premiums of all are for the age 18-34 rating.

As usual - thoughtful and interesting post Frank. Any ideas 'why' on the bolded above? Over 50s probably have the most 'disposable income' of all those age groups. Not 'taken in' by the advertisers? Already have a lifetime of 'stuff?' Ideas / research for this?


The over 50 crowd is not as easily influenced or concerned with keeping up with the shiny new trends so they are not as susceptible to direct marketing.

This. The teens thru the 30 somethings will buy something that a celebrity pushes. The want anything trendy. Old people generally purchase the same crap over and over. Outside of pharmacy stuff...
06-11-2014 10:55 AM
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TIGERCITY Offline
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Post: #25
RE: If we got BYU TV money
(06-11-2014 10:55 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 10:36 AM)LimaBean Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 09:57 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  On the one hand, you're correct that beer and soft drink advertising isn't very effective on a Mormon audience. On the other hand, Mormons have the highest income and educational levels of any Christian group and BYU specifically has a disproportionate number of high income alums, so that's a net positive for advertising from a pure discretionary income standpoint for bigger ticket items like iPhones and luxury cars. I would imagine the BYU audience looks like the average golf TV viewing audience that doesn't drink beer or Coke, which is actually pretty valuable based on income.

Still, as someone else pointed out, the age of the audience (the younger, the better) is by far the greatest factor for advertising dollars (more than income, educational levels, religious preferences, gender, race, etc.). The age 18-49 rating is what networks really care about (the total viewership number that networks use in press releases is actually irrelevant - viewers over 50, unless they're really really really rich like the golf viewing audience mentioned earlier, are effectively worthless with respect to advertising revenue) and the biggest advertising premiums of all are for the age 18-34 rating.

As usual - thoughtful and interesting post Frank. Any ideas 'why' on the bolded above? Over 50s probably have the most 'disposable income' of all those age groups. Not 'taken in' by the advertisers? Already have a lifetime of 'stuff?' Ideas / research for this?


The over 50 crowd is not as easily influenced or concerned with keeping up with the shiny new trends so they are not as susceptible to direct marketing.

This. The teens thru the 30 somethings will buy something that a celebrity pushes. The want anything trendy. Old people generally purchase the same crap over and over. Outside of pharmacy stuff...

How can that be true of the age group and the age group not being a great advertising market? If they purchase the 'same crap over and over' than the makers / providers of that 'crap' would be in competition for their boat load of disposable money. That's still advertising dollars coming in. Frank seemed to say there really wasn't -- when compared to other age groups.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2014 11:11 AM by TIGERCITY.)
06-11-2014 11:10 AM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #26
RE: If we got BYU TV money
(06-11-2014 09:10 AM)Chappy Wrote:  I wonder if anyone's done a breakdown of viewers per dollar (or dollars per viewer) on the P5 contracts.

You can't do that, because TV revenue is not flat on a per viewer basis. You can get 30-40% more per viewer for higher drawing events than you can for lower ones. Using round numbers (just examples, not necessarily meant to be real), commercial time might look like this:

$500k per 30 second ad - Football game that draws 10 million viewers

$20k per 30 second ad - Football game that draws 1 million viewers

Using this example, the more widely viewed game can charge 150% more per viewer than the less viewed game. Part of that is availability: there are more games that deliver 1 million viewers than those that deliver 10 million. So the lack of supply drives up demand. That is why networks are willing to lose money to pay for the NFL, instead of compiling cheaper programming that can add up to the same number of viewers over more hours. Those mega audiences make a lot more money, even per viewer, then smaller ones.
06-11-2014 11:15 AM
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Tigers2B1 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: If we got BYU TV money
(06-11-2014 11:10 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 10:55 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 10:36 AM)LimaBean Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 09:57 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  On the one hand, you're correct that beer and soft drink advertising isn't very effective on a Mormon audience. On the other hand, Mormons have the highest income and educational levels of any Christian group and BYU specifically has a disproportionate number of high income alums, so that's a net positive for advertising from a pure discretionary income standpoint for bigger ticket items like iPhones and luxury cars. I would imagine the BYU audience looks like the average golf TV viewing audience that doesn't drink beer or Coke, which is actually pretty valuable based on income.

Still, as someone else pointed out, the age of the audience (the younger, the better) is by far the greatest factor for advertising dollars (more than income, educational levels, religious preferences, gender, race, etc.). The age 18-49 rating is what networks really care about (the total viewership number that networks use in press releases is actually irrelevant - viewers over 50, unless they're really really really rich like the golf viewing audience mentioned earlier, are effectively worthless with respect to advertising revenue) and the biggest advertising premiums of all are for the age 18-34 rating.

As usual - thoughtful and interesting post Frank. Any ideas 'why' on the bolded above? Over 50s probably have the most 'disposable income' of all those age groups. Not 'taken in' by the advertisers? Already have a lifetime of 'stuff?' Ideas / research for this?


The over 50 crowd is not as easily influenced or concerned with keeping up with the shiny new trends so they are not as susceptible to direct marketing.

This. The teens thru the 30 somethings will buy something that a celebrity pushes. The want anything trendy. Old people generally purchase the same crap over and over. Outside of pharmacy stuff...

How can that be true of the age group and the age group not being a great advertising market? If they purchase the 'same crap over and over' than the makers / providers of that 'crap' would be in competition for their boat load of disposable money. That's still advertising dollars coming in. Frank seemed to say there really wasn't -- when compared to other age groups.

How about the over 50 group simply isn't as easily influenced by advertising. They still have money to spend but advertising just doesn't work well on them.
06-11-2014 11:21 AM
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Post: #28
RE: If we got BYU TV money
(06-11-2014 10:29 AM)Chappy Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 09:57 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  On the one hand, you're correct that beer and soft drink advertising isn't very effective on a Mormon audience. On the other hand, Mormons have the highest income and educational levels of any Christian group and BYU specifically has a disproportionate number of high income alums, so that's a net positive for advertising from a pure discretionary income standpoint for bigger ticket items like iPhones and luxury cars. I would imagine the BYU audience looks like the average golf TV viewing audience that doesn't drink beer or Coke, which is actually pretty valuable based on income.

Still, as someone else pointed out, the age of the audience (the younger, the better) is by far the greatest factor for advertising dollars (more than income, educational levels, religious preferences, gender, race, etc.). The age 18-49 rating is what networks really care about (the total viewership number that networks use in press releases is actually irrelevant - viewers over 50, unless they're really really really rich like the golf viewing audience mentioned earlier, are effectively worthless with respect to advertising revenue) and the biggest advertising premiums of all are for the age 18-34 rating.

As usual - thoughtful and interesting post Frank. Any ideas 'why' on the bolded above? Over 50s probably have the most 'disposable income' of all those age groups. Not 'taken in' by the advertisers? Already have a lifetime of 'stuff?' Ideas / research for this?

I also find that interesting. Prior to age 50, my dad's spending habits were dictated by needs rather than wants (ie college tuition for me and my sister, mortgage, etc) while now that he's over 50 his home is paid off and his kids are on their own and he spends my inheritance 03-wink quite freely... bought two new cars in 2013 and takes LOTS of trips (I won't even get into the very profitable pharmaceutical industry, which advertises to older men relentlessly during sporting events). I would think that he's not alone and that his type is worth lots to advertisers.

Not disagreeing with Frank here, as I've heard many times that they covet the younger demographic. I'm just not sure why.

Someone that works for a large advertising firm told me this once: for TV networks, the advertisers are their customers and you (the viewers) are the product. There are a lot of reasons why younger viewers are more valuable (and this has been the case for decades), but here are the two main ones:

(1) "Annuity"-type Products - A common thought of why advertisers target younger people is that old people have more entrenched buying habits and are more brand loyal. That's somewhat true, but it's not really about the random consumer goods that you pick up from Target and Wal-Mart. Instead, young people are MUCH more valuable for the massive advertisers for the types of items that have monthly or regular locked-in fees: home and car insurance, banks (where you have your checking account disproportionately leads to where you obtain higher-margin mortgages and home equity loans down the road), cell phone plans, retirement accounts, etc. Outside of the beer, car and fast food advertisers, doesn't that list of industries look like the list of commercials that you see during virtually every sporting event? It's not an accident.

Most importantly, these aren't just one-time purchases. When these companies are able to sign up customers in their 20s and 30s, they're typically able to lock them in for decades. A 50-year old doesn't switch insurance companies, banks or retirement accounts very often (if ever), but younger people are still much more transient in those products that generate regular fees for many years. That makes young people incredibly valuable to that specific group of advertisers that just happen to have the largest advertising budgets of anyone.

(2) Relative Scarcity of Younger Viewers - There are significantly fewer young people that watch TV than older people. This means younger people are harder to reach compared to older people. In turn, that means TV programs that attract more younger people are worth much more to advertisers. Think back to what I said about viewers themselves being the product. The less supply there is of a product (in this case, young viewers), the more valuable they become in the marketplace when there's high demand (see my point #1 for "annuity"-type products). That's why prime time programming decisions by networks are almost entirely driven by the age 18-49 rating. (Just look at the cancel/renewal analysis of TV shows on websites like TVbytheNumbers. They have continuously shown that the 18-49 rating drives it all, with extra credit to shows that have a high 18-34 rating, while the total number that includes viewers over 50 is irrelevant.) An advertiser can reach the older audience with many other types of shows throughout the day for a lot less money by comparison.

Note that the same thing applies to genders - whether your spouse or significant other believes it, men actually watch a lot less TV than women. This means that, all things being equal, advertisers pay a premium for a show with a male audience compared to a female audience. As a result, the advertising gold mine is a TV program that draws high ratings among males age 18-34 and they watch live (as opposed to on a DVR or streaming). Hmmm... do you see why sports TV rights have been skyrocketing?
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2014 11:29 AM by Frank the Tank.)
06-11-2014 11:24 AM
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Post: #29
RE: If we got BYU TV money
(06-11-2014 09:29 AM)IceJus10 Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 08:55 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  There will be a ratings bump with Navy games for sure. They join in our look-in period with espn. It would almost be better to negotiate a year after Navy joins so you get updated tv numbers for the whole year.

It would be a game changer getting Army and BYU on board for ratings purposes.

Navy will be responsible for two bumps... a small one during the look-in, in which their road conference games add viewers and value to current members home games... then a second time, when Navy home games are rolled into the contract in 2018.

I still think the desired end game is the American with the 2 or 3 of the academies and BYU to get a nice bump in TV money to the $5-million plus range per member, I've been saying that for sometime now.

I'm also fairly certain it'll be a partnership between ESPN and CBS... CBS will end up paying to have access to the academies, by creating an over-the-air series of games on CBS for the American; while ESPN will pay more for the creation of a Championship Game, consolidating properties into one conference (BYU), to get a share of the Army-Navy game, and to get out from under some of the station/appearance guarantees of the current deal.

Are you saying that when Navy plays it's fellow AAC mates that the games will be showed on CBS OTA? You realize that the SEC has an exclusive contract with CBS right? Only Army, Air Force and Navy playing each other get on CBS OTA with the exception of home games vs Notre Dame for all 3 academies, and the MWC championship game. Please explain what you mean?04-cheers
06-11-2014 11:36 AM
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TIGERCITY Offline
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Post: #30
RE: If we got BYU TV money
(06-11-2014 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 10:29 AM)Chappy Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 09:57 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  On the one hand, you're correct that beer and soft drink advertising isn't very effective on a Mormon audience. On the other hand, Mormons have the highest income and educational levels of any Christian group and BYU specifically has a disproportionate number of high income alums, so that's a net positive for advertising from a pure discretionary income standpoint for bigger ticket items like iPhones and luxury cars. I would imagine the BYU audience looks like the average golf TV viewing audience that doesn't drink beer or Coke, which is actually pretty valuable based on income.

Still, as someone else pointed out, the age of the audience (the younger, the better) is by far the greatest factor for advertising dollars (more than income, educational levels, religious preferences, gender, race, etc.). The age 18-49 rating is what networks really care about (the total viewership number that networks use in press releases is actually irrelevant - viewers over 50, unless they're really really really rich like the golf viewing audience mentioned earlier, are effectively worthless with respect to advertising revenue) and the biggest advertising premiums of all are for the age 18-34 rating.

As usual - thoughtful and interesting post Frank. Any ideas 'why' on the bolded above? Over 50s probably have the most 'disposable income' of all those age groups. Not 'taken in' by the advertisers? Already have a lifetime of 'stuff?' Ideas / research for this?

I also find that interesting. Prior to age 50, my dad's spending habits were dictated by needs rather than wants (ie college tuition for me and my sister, mortgage, etc) while now that he's over 50 his home is paid off and his kids are on their own and he spends my inheritance 03-wink quite freely... bought two new cars in 2013 and takes LOTS of trips (I won't even get into the very profitable pharmaceutical industry, which advertises to older men relentlessly during sporting events). I would think that he's not alone and that his type is worth lots to advertisers.

Not disagreeing with Frank here, as I've heard many times that they covet the younger demographic. I'm just not sure why.

Someone that works for a large advertising firm told me this once: for TV networks, the advertisers are their customers and you (the viewers) are the product. There are a lot of reasons why younger viewers are more valuable (and this has been the case for decades), but here are the two main ones:

(1) "Annuity"-type Products - A common thought of why advertisers target younger people is that old people have more entrenched buying habits and are more brand loyal. That's somewhat true, but it's not really about the random consumer goods that you pick up from Target and Wal-Mart. Instead, young people are MUCH more valuable for the massive advertisers for the types of items that have monthly or regular locked-in fees: home and car insurance, banks (where you have your checking account disproportionately leads to where you obtain higher-margin mortgages and home equity loans down the road), cell phone plans, retirement accounts, etc. Outside of the beer, car and fast food advertisers, doesn't that list of industries look like the list of commercials that you see during virtually every sporting event? It's not an accident.

Most importantly, these aren't just one-time purchases. When these companies are able to sign up customers in their 20s and 30s, they're typically able to lock them in for decades. A 50-year old doesn't switch insurance companies, banks or retirement accounts very often (if ever), but younger people are still much more transient in those products that generate regular fees for many years. That makes young people incredibly valuable to that specific group of advertisers that just happen to have the largest advertising budgets of anyone.

(2) Relative Scarcity of Younger Viewers - There are significantly fewer young people that watch TV than older people. This means younger people are harder to reach compared to older people. In turn, that means TV programs that attract more younger people are worth much more to advertisers. Think back to what I said about viewers themselves being the product. The less supply there is of a product (in this case, young viewers), the more valuable they become in the marketplace when there's high demand (see my point #1 for "annuity"-type products). That's why prime time programming decisions by networks are almost entirely driven by the age 18-49 rating. (Just look at the cancel/renewal analysis of TV shows on websites like TVbytheNumbers. They have continuously shown that the 18-49 rating drives it all, with extra credit to shows that have a high 18-34 rating, while the total number that includes viewers over 50 is irrelevant.) An advertiser can reach the older audience with many other types of shows throughout the day for a lot less money by comparison.

Note that the same thing applies to genders - whether your spouse or significant other believes it, men actually watch a lot less TV than women. This means that, all things being equal, advertisers pay a premium for a show with a male audience compared to a female audience. As a result, the advertising gold mine is a TV program that draws high ratings among males age 18-34 and they watch live (as opposed to on a DVR or streaming). Hmmm... do you see why sports TV rights have been skyrocketing?

Nice explaination that ties a lot together. Thanks --04-cheers
06-11-2014 11:43 AM
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Post: #31
RE: If we got BYU TV money
(06-11-2014 07:12 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 02:01 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  ESPN is rumored to pay BYU $7M a year for the rights to its home games.

Utah newspaper noted shortly after the contract was signed that this is what BYU gets paid for their home games:

$1.2 Million for ESPN Games

$1 Million for ESPN2 Games

$800,000 for ESPNU Games

Last Year, BYU had these home games covered by ESPN Networks:

ESPN: 1 ($1.2 Million)
ESPN2: 2 ($2 Million)
ESPNU: 2 ($1.6 Million)
----------------------
$4.8 Million

NOTE: BYU owns the TV rights 1 one home game per year for live telecast on BYUTV (usually a game vs a Div I-AA team)


The Newspapers have no idea what BYU is being paid, they are only guessing and I seen different ranges ($800k to $1.2m, $1.3m, and even $1.5). I know a few insiders at BYUTV and they have told me that the newspapers are pretty much in the dark with their guessing numbers. In other words it's not that simple... Many moving factors, from the better BYU is on any giving year, who they are playing, and ect... Then that is also factored into what station the game is on.

What I do know is BYU really has jumped in Athletic Revenue since going Independent. They are making close to $20 million a year more than what they averaged their last few years in the MWC.
06-11-2014 07:55 PM
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