Anyone find historic criminals and crime families interesting? Favorites of all time? I'll admit I don't know too much about them, but if anyone is passionate about them I'd like to hear your take on why they're interesting.

I thought Goodfellas was a great movie but have never educated myself about the subject.

The Borgias.

The one thing you think about with this family is.. They literally ran the Catholic church for HOW long? And they were NOT afraid to do whatever it took to keep the family in power (murder, extortion, blackmail, imprisonment, etc.)

I was going to say the Borgias as well. Pablo Escobar has to be up there with the top individual criminals.

Although they weren't "criminals" per se, you have to tip your hats to the Hapsburgs and the Tudors as well with Maximilian Robespierre with the individual honorable mention.

i don't know if I'd consider the tudors a "crime family"? Robespierre I can see a placement for if we were putting together a list.

Why aren't the Tudors organized criminals? During their reign (1485-1603), they stole from nearly every nation on the face of the Earth. The British armada stole from their main rivals, Spain, France, and Holland, as well as everybody else they came into contact with in their travels.

How do you think the royal family of England became the richest family on Earth? It wasn't through the sweat of their brow, I can assure you.

Gambino Crime Family (New York City). Famous "Dons" include Carlo Gambino and John Gotti. This crime family is still around today.

Al Capone

Bonnie and Clyde

John Dillinger

Jesse James/The James Gang - FWIW, the movie The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford is an excellent film with great acting covering events of the James Gang and later Jesse's death at the hands of the Ford brothers.

(06-11-2014 09:49 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Gambino Crime Family (New York City). Famous "Dons" include Carlo Gambino and John Gotti. This crime family is still around today.

Al Capone

Bonnie and Clyde

John Dillinger

Jesse James/The James Gang - FWIW, the movie The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford is an excellent film with great acting covering events of the James Gang and later Jesse's death at the hands of the Ford brothers.

These guys are the responses I was thinking. Prevalent in pop culture. "Teflon Don" is a common reference in rap music.

The five families of New York: Bonnano, Columbo, Gambino, Genovese and Lucchese.

The families in the Godfather are all based on these.

Gangs of New York is a really interesting book if you want to learn about the various figures/groups of organized crime in New York City around the late 19th/early 20th century

I watched a history channel show the other day about Lucky Luciano's role in helping U.S. intelligence agencies during WWII.

His granddaughter is a Facebook friend. She's a very good friend of my sister's daughters (well, 3 out of 5 anyway).

I'm watching the entire Sopranos series right now and I keep wondering how these guys don't go down/get prosecuted more often if the feds have them under constant surveillence and basically everybody knows they are involved with organized crime. Maybe I'm just ignorant about it, but I feel like you're not a very good gangster if you are well known as a gangster by the public.

Bet none of you knew that Minnesota was very real destination for gangsters back in the day:

Quote:(St. Paul, Minnesota) became a center of operation and a haven for such notorious gangsters as John Dillinger, Babyface Nelson, Roger "the Terrible" Touhy, Machine Gun Kelly, Alvin "Creepy" Karpis, and the Barker gang, whose activities extended to robbing banks, holding up mail trucks and trains, and kidnapping and holding hostages for ransom.

http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/st-pauls-gangster-era/

(06-12-2014 03:09 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I'm watching the entire Sopranos series right now and I keep wondering how these guys don't go down/get prosecuted more often if the feds have them under constant surveillence and basically everybody knows they are involved with organized crime. Maybe I'm just ignorant about it, but I feel like you're not a very good gangster if you are well known as a gangster by the public.

It happens because getting a conviction is very difficult. Being well known as a gangster by the public does not constitute evidence admissible in court. Just look at the OJ Simpson and George Zimmerman cases, where public perception that the defendant did it was pretty strong in both cases, but the prosecution was unable to produce sufficient competent evidence to obtain a conviction in either.

(06-14-2014 07:26 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 03:09 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I'm watching the entire Sopranos series right now and I keep wondering how these guys don't go down/get prosecuted more often if the feds have them under constant surveillence and basically everybody knows they are involved with organized crime. Maybe I'm just ignorant about it, but I feel like you're not a very good gangster if you are well known as a gangster by the public.

It happens because getting a conviction is very difficult. Being well known as a gangster by the public does not constitute evidence admissible in court. Just look at the OJ Simpson and George Zimmerman cases, where public perception that the defendant did it was pretty strong in both cases, but the prosecution was unable to produce sufficient competent evidence to obtain a conviction in either.

I would add that for many high profile criminals/crime families there is probably a sense of satisfaction to stay one step ahead of the feds/law enforcement. There is arrogance, pride, ego, etc. in knowing that you are "marked" for illegal activity but it cannot be charged/prosecuted/convicted based on lack of evidence. Thus, the "teflon" term since nothing sticks...

There would be no organized crime in America if prohibition and the war on drugs hadn't happened. Those 2 decisions gave the criminals a huge source of income, and the incentive needed to organize. Without that, it doesn't happen here.

(06-14-2014 12:32 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  There would be no organized crime in America if prohibition and the war on drugs hadn't happened. Those 2 decisions gave the criminals a huge source of income, and the incentive needed to organize. Without that, it doesn't happen here.

I mean they'd still make money off of things like prostitution, gambling and other venues. While you are correct about the war on drugs/prohibition, criminals will always exist if there is a black market for something. The only way to prevent things like this is for nothing to be illegal.

People talk about corruption/organized crime here, but it is far worse in the majority of the world. In most developing countries you can't do anything without bribery being involved.

Bribery is involved in everything in this country too. But they call it things like lobbying, rezoning, eminent domain, taxes, labor negotiations, etc.

Borgias

Hell of a crime family. They were gangsters and thugs by any measure and reached the very top.

I'm doing research for an idea I had for a short story and stumbled upon Stephanie St. Clair. The woman was a big gangster back then and ran numbers games in Harlem. She is the woman who made Bumpy Johnson a power in organized crime and Frank Lucas (American Gangster). She had connections with Lucky Luciano and was his way into Harlem.

(06-13-2014 02:22 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Bet none of you knew that Minnesota was very real destination for gangsters back in the day:

Quote:(St. Paul, Minnesota) became a center of operation and a haven for such notorious gangsters as John Dillinger, Babyface Nelson, Roger "the Terrible" Touhy, Machine Gun Kelly, Alvin "Creepy" Karpis, and the Barker gang, whose activities extended to robbing banks, holding up mail trucks and trains, and kidnapping and holding hostages for ransom.

http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/st-pauls-gangster-era/

So was Indiana. I stayed at a hotel in French Lick a few years ago in which Capone spent Summers. The hotel has lookouts on top that his men would sit in to watch the roads coming in and out of town. Very interesting place. It was being restored when I was there. Id love to see it now. At one time the Republican National Convention was held there. Now it is more known as Larry Bird's hometown.