(06-10-2014 06:25 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 06:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The worst thing about Iraq is that it probably made Obama president.

Never fight a war that you don't intend to win.

What would have been a win in Iraq? There was no way you could go in and keep long term peace.

That's my perspective. Contrary to Owl 69, I see that the US won the war, they couldn't win the peace though.

I believe there's a post from me that says that same thing back in 2005.

Quote:That's why we should have stayed away.

Maybe. But mach's insanity is just that. Insanity.

Quote:Why? idiots like you would vote for him and not know why...

After Lord Stanley's post the other day about how the spin room has changed I've really thought about what can I do to make it a little better. Do the personal attacks help your anger? If they help you personally in coping with your daily struggles. Go right at it Maxi. I'm not your enemy.


but............

Do you think they help the dialogue in the spin room?

Ask not what the spin room (or Machiavelli in this instance) can do for you but what you can do for the spin room.

It's bigger than both of us Maxi..............

(06-10-2014 07:18 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  1) it was the same in 2010

2) Nixon didn't pull an Iraq. Much worse.

3). I just think it's Hillary's time. We shall see.

I realize Nixon didn't pull an Iraq, he got us out of a situation worse than Iraq that Johnson got us into however he then proceeded to demolish his presidency with Watergate.
We elected Obama so it wouldn't surprise me if we were dumb enough to elect Hillary.

One lasting legacy is that within a week after the US forces found Saddam in a hole, Momar Qhadafi offered to turn over all his nuclear weapons program to the US. Those materials are now sitting at Oak Ridge in Tennessee, effectively out of the hands of terrorists.

I think that is a pretty good result.

Not that Iraq isn’t on Bush, but like many Americans, It wasn’t the Presidents
word that swayed me, it was a principled Colin Powell making a convincing case for WMDs.

(06-10-2014 06:15 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  MOSUL: Gunmen seized Iraq's second-largest city Tuesday as troops threw away their uniforms and abandoned their posts, officials said, in another blow to the authorities, who appear incapable of stopping militant advances.

Predominantly Sunni Muslim Mosul, 350 kilometres (220 miles) north of Baghdad, has long been a militant stronghold and one of the most dangerous areas in the country.

Capital of Nineveh province, it is the second city after Fallujah, west of the capital, that the government has lost this year.


http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/worl...44060.html


Nothing..... nothing Obama could or ever would do can compare to the travesty of the wasted blood and spoils of W's Iraq misadventure.

You're making an unsupportable assumption that these current events would not have occurred had it not been for the invasion. As far as the people of Iraq go, it may have been far worse had Saddam stayed in power. And there is no way of ever knowing what he might had done on the terrorism front to kill more Americans.

(06-10-2014 06:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The worst thing about Iraq is that it probably made Obama president.

Never fight a war that you don't intend to win.

This.

Clinton made W president. I kind of wish that Colin Powell ran in 1996 or 2000. I really believe that he thought America was not ready for a black president.

Watergate, the greatest political scandal in our country's history, resulting in the first and only presidential resignation in our country's history. Hamstrung the Republicans for 1 term.

But Iraq is going to destroy the Republicans for decades because??? Because it was for nothing and the militants are going to seize the country again? Who didn't see that one coming? What is the big politics-altering scandal here? We went to war and it turned out to be a bad decision? So what. We do that every decade or two. It may taint YOUR opinion of Bush for decades but it won't affect the Republicans with Independents anymore than Obama's dumb*** decisions do.

Getting elected isn't about you, the loyal Democrat, or the loyal Republicans. It's about the swing voter. George Bush won't even register with the Independents after 8 years of suckitude. Doesn't mean a Democrat won't win again, but it won't be because of Shrub.

grasping at straws there with the Qhadaffi thing.........non sequitor



The country does not view Vietnam the same. Heck half of the country wasn't even born. I still believe the reckless attitude in which we went in. The whole time and of our choosing nonsense Rummy said and then to TOTALLY FCK up the reconstruction. It's beyond the pale. Only the die hard GOpers like this spin room try to salvage it.

W's ADMINISTRATION WAS THE ANTI MIDAS when it comes to everything surrounding Iraq. He had the shyt touch.

(06-10-2014 07:21 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Vietnam was a whole nother animal. I think we were used to kickin butt and takin names. Vietnam changed all of that. The first gulf war erased some of that stigma, but I think the country just views the entire ramp up and the execution of the war as reckless.

They tried to do it on the cheap. Plus, why did we even go there if we didn't get cheap oil. Seriously, gas prices went up.

(06-10-2014 07:34 AM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  Watergate, the greatest political scandal in our country's history, resulting in the first and only presidential resignation in our country's history. Hamstrung the Republicans for 1 term.

But Iraq is going to destroy the Republicans for decades because??? Because it was for nothing and the militants are going to seize the country again? Who didn't see that one coming? What is the big politics-altering scandal here? We went to war and it turned out to be a bad decision? So what. We do that every decade or two. It may taint YOUR opinion of Bush for decades but it won't affect the Republicans with Independents anymore than Obama's dumb*** decisions do.

Getting elected isn't about you, the loyal Democrat, or the loyal Republicans. It's about the swing voter. George Bush won't even register with the Independents after 8 years of suckitude. Doesn't mean a Democrat won't win again, but it won't be because of Shrub.

Americans have a history of short memories.

Getting elected isn't about swing voters, it’s about cuddled voters.

why did we even go there



I don't even think you could get a straight answer to this today.

We went to war and it turned out to be a bad decision? So what.



That is such wishful thinking from a die hard..........

You don't mess with sending our troops into harms way. It's going to be decades before the majority of Americans trust the GOP again.

Yep it was all W's fault.....

Quote:Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Breaux (D-LA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA) Hollings (D-SC)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Miller (D-GA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Torricelli (D-NJ)

(06-10-2014 07:41 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  We went to war and it turned out to be a bad decision? So what.



That is such wishful thinking from a die hard..........

You don't mess with sending our troops into harms way. It's going to be decades before the majority of Americans trust the GOP again.

The majority of Americans don’t trust any party,
but they’ll vote for the one that gives them stuff.

Did Zero get the memo that ending a war is not the same as winning a war.... he bares responsibility for Iraq as well.

Zero's legacy will be much worse.

(06-10-2014 07:38 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  why did we even go there



I don't even think you could get a straight answer to this today.

At the time we haven't been to war in a while. We had new weapons that the gov't wanted to use. Gotta justify those big contracts. America is was nation that is almost always at war.

So we're focusing on someone who hasn't been in office in 6 years vs the one that's been occupying the office?

(06-10-2014 08:04 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 07:38 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  why did we even go there



I don't even think you could get a straight answer to this today.

At the time we haven't been to war in a while. We had new weapons that the gov't wanted to use. Gotta justify those big contracts. America is was nation that is almost always at war.

Freedom ain't free. Yes I know, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, Iraq

(06-10-2014 06:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The worst thing about Iraq is that it probably made Obama president.

Never fight a war that you don't intend to win.

if you do it enough, one gets good at things....our gov't is 'good'