(06-25-2014 01:23 PM)Smaug Wrote:  Today is the 100th anniversary of the murder of Archduke Ferdinand.

According to wikipedia, it occurred on 6/28/1914.

(06-25-2014 02:52 PM)UofM_Tiger Wrote:  

(06-25-2014 01:23 PM)Smaug Wrote:  Today is the 100th anniversary of the murder of Archduke Ferdinand.

According to wikipedia, it occurred on 6/28/1914.

You are correct.

Damn.

(06-10-2014 07:26 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  While everyone can debate whether the justifications for any war have merit, this is the one conflict that I literally have know idea why it was fought.

Best short explanation I ever saw, it happened because Austria thought Germany would fight and Germany thought Russia wouldn't.

Yeah, today is the 100th Anniversary of the Assassination of Archduke Ferdinand.
CBS News has a report on it about to be shown.

Was odd to see Ferdinand honored by the Queen in England,
then they show the unveiling of a statue in Bosnia of the assassin.

Dan Carlin of Hardcore History gave a great summation of events and consequences
of the assassination.

(06-10-2014 12:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 11:39 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  And the mistakes made at the end of WWI led directly to WWII, Korea, Vietnam, today's unrest in the Middle East, etc.

That's because it is not corporately profitable to prosecute a war to its natural conclusion. In the history of mankind nothing other than perhaps medicine has been as profitable as the business of war materials. Everyone feels they need them, that they need to practice with them, that they need to stockpile them, and that they must have the latest innovations. And nothing creates a larger demand than the destruction of war materials in a war. Consequently politicians who are paid by corporations to look after their interests always make sure to leave the seeds of the next conflict in place at the conclusion of the current conflict. The Treaty of Versailles created the reparations that made Germany destitute and led to ultimately to National Socialism and WWII. The Divisions of Post WWII Europe, particularly Germany, led to the Cold War. The parsing of Korea, the Kamchatka peninsula, and the Kuril Islands done to appease the Soviets after 1 week of involvement against Japan led to Korea and Vietnam. The ramifications of the Cold War led to the Bay of Pigs and eventually Granada, Nicaragua and Panama. And the partition of Palestine at the end of WWII has led to the rest.

It is so much in fact that even Eisenhower proclaimed that his greatest fear for the future of the United States was the rise of our own military industrial complex of which many of the components comprise a significant proportion of the Federal Reserve and their influence there has led to the ballooning of the national debt from 205 million in 1963 to an annual interest payment on the principal of the debt in excess of 19 trillion today, a debt so large that it alone poses a greater threat to the destruction of our way of life than any foreign adversary.

What you are talking about is what prompted the writing of "War is a racket" by Smedley Butler....the most decorated Marine in US history at the time of his death.

(06-28-2014 07:56 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Was odd to see Ferdinand honored by the Queen in England,
then they show the unveiling of a statue in Bosnia of the assassin.

Dan Carlin of Hardcore History gave a great summation of events and consequences
of the assassination.

Yes...Great stuff by Carlin. I had no idea that the first attempt failed and that the assassin shot him purely by chance later. Ferdinand was a real dumb***. Instead of fleeing after the first attempt...he decides to just hang around and allows a lone assassin to pop him after he notices him at a coffee shop.

(07-19-2014 02:31 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 12:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 11:39 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  And the mistakes made at the end of WWI led directly to WWII, Korea, Vietnam, today's unrest in the Middle East, etc.

That's because it is not corporately profitable to prosecute a war to its natural conclusion. In the history of mankind nothing other than perhaps medicine has been as profitable as the business of war materials. Everyone feels they need them, that they need to practice with them, that they need to stockpile them, and that they must have the latest innovations. And nothing creates a larger demand than the destruction of war materials in a war. Consequently politicians who are paid by corporations to look after their interests always make sure to leave the seeds of the next conflict in place at the conclusion of the current conflict. The Treaty of Versailles created the reparations that made Germany destitute and led to ultimately to National Socialism and WWII. The Divisions of Post WWII Europe, particularly Germany, led to the Cold War. The parsing of Korea, the Kamchatka peninsula, and the Kuril Islands done to appease the Soviets after 1 week of involvement against Japan led to Korea and Vietnam. The ramifications of the Cold War led to the Bay of Pigs and eventually Granada, Nicaragua and Panama. And the partition of Palestine at the end of WWII has led to the rest.

It is so much in fact that even Eisenhower proclaimed that his greatest fear for the future of the United States was the rise of our own military industrial complex of which many of the components comprise a significant proportion of the Federal Reserve and their influence there has led to the ballooning of the national debt from 205 million in 1963 to an annual interest payment on the principal of the debt in excess of 19 trillion today, a debt so large that it alone poses a greater threat to the destruction of our way of life than any foreign adversary.

What you are talking about is what prompted the writing of "War is a racket" by Smedley Butler....the most decorated Marine in US history at the time of his death.

Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler wrote "War Is A Racket" as a response to Republicans who offered him command of the U.S. Army, hoping to use him to overthrow the federal government in their attempt to stop the New Deal.

But he was the most heavily decorated man of any military service. He joined the Marines at age 16, lying about his age in order to join, and began his career as a private, He then rose through the enlisted ranks, before becoming an officer and reaching the highest rank the Marines can bestow. He is also a double Congressional Medal of Honor winner, one of only 19 such persons in the 250 year history of the nation.
NOTE: There have been no double Congressional Medal of Honor winners since WWI.

Smedley Butler was a truly amazing military and historical figure. "War is a Racket" is a good read and exploring his role in the "Business Plot" organized by American industrialists attempting to depose FDR in a fascist uprising makes for fascinating study as well

On World War I, I read a really interesting book this week, "The Great and Holy War," that frames the conflict in a news perspective based on previously less-explored themes on how religion heavily influenced the conflict.

One thing I didn't realize was how many people that the war was an event that represented the precursor to the apocalypse

(07-19-2014 09:10 PM)TPBlaze84 Wrote:  Smedley Butler was a truly amazing military and historical figure. "War is a Racket" is a good read and exploring his role in the "Business Plot" organized by American industrialists attempting to depose FDR in a fascist uprising makes for fascinating study as well

It should make people take pause that both Butler and Ike warned us about the Industrial Military complex becoming so powerful that it essentially makes policy. Two genuine warriors that understood first hand what the purpose of the military should be. Unfortunately....None of this stuff is taught in schools in America.

(07-19-2014 10:13 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-19-2014 09:10 PM)TPBlaze84 Wrote:  Smedley Butler was a truly amazing military and historical figure. "War is a Racket" is a good read and exploring his role in the "Business Plot" organized by American industrialists attempting to depose FDR in a fascist uprising makes for fascinating study as well

It should make people take pause that both Butler and Ike warned us about the Industrial Military complex becoming so powerful that it essentially makes policy. Two genuine warriors that understood first hand what the purpose of the military should be. Unfortunately....None of this stuff is taught in schools in America.

Definitely. I didn't learn about the business plot until my junior year of college, and I just remember thinking, "why isn't there a movie about this?" It seems like an event every school-age kid should learn about, considering it was a bona-dude attempt to overthrow the American government

(07-19-2014 10:44 PM)TPBlaze84 Wrote:  

(07-19-2014 10:13 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-19-2014 09:10 PM)TPBlaze84 Wrote:  Smedley Butler was a truly amazing military and historical figure. "War is a Racket" is a good read and exploring his role in the "Business Plot" organized by American industrialists attempting to depose FDR in a fascist uprising makes for fascinating study as well

It should make people take pause that both Butler and Ike warned us about the Industrial Military complex becoming so powerful that it essentially makes policy. Two genuine warriors that understood first hand what the purpose of the military should be. Unfortunately....None of this stuff is taught in schools in America.

Definitely. I didn't learn about the business plot until my junior year of college, and I just remember thinking, "why isn't there a movie about this?" It seems like an event every school-age kid should learn about, considering it was a bona-dude attempt to overthrow the American government

There are rich, powerful interests that have a vested interest in downplaying that part of American history, within both parties, and their families role in it. The best way to rewrite history is to ignore the parts you don't want advertised, and then hope it's forgotten. The main players behind the scene have managed to obscure their role, since nobody alive remembers it. Any attempt to make the movie now would have to rely on speculation, making it a historical fiction, and not an actual historical movie. Few people today would believe such a thing actually happened, especially when those with a vested interest in keeping this hidden would spend millions to foster this opinion in the masses, who are pretty easy to lead around by the nose.

(07-20-2014 09:11 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(07-19-2014 10:44 PM)TPBlaze84 Wrote:  

(07-19-2014 10:13 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-19-2014 09:10 PM)TPBlaze84 Wrote:  Smedley Butler was a truly amazing military and historical figure. "War is a Racket" is a good read and exploring his role in the "Business Plot" organized by American industrialists attempting to depose FDR in a fascist uprising makes for fascinating study as well

It should make people take pause that both Butler and Ike warned us about the Industrial Military complex becoming so powerful that it essentially makes policy. Two genuine warriors that understood first hand what the purpose of the military should be. Unfortunately....None of this stuff is taught in schools in America.

Definitely. I didn't learn about the business plot until my junior year of college, and I just remember thinking, "why isn't there a movie about this?" It seems like an event every school-age kid should learn about, considering it was a bona-dude attempt to overthrow the American government

There are rich, powerful interests that have a vested interest in downplaying that part of American history, within both parties, and their families role in it. The best way to rewrite history is to ignore the parts you don't want advertised, and then hope it's forgotten. The main players behind the scene have managed to obscure their role, since nobody alive remembers it. Any attempt to make the movie now would have to rely on speculation, making it a historical fiction, and not an actual historical movie. Few people today would believe such a thing actually happened, especially when those with a vested interest in keeping this hidden would spend millions to foster this opinion in the masses, who are pretty easy to lead around by the nose.

Bit, are we so sure they didn't succeed, just later on after November of 1963? Our debt has ballooned since then and Viet Nam has helped to set up the model for undecided conflicts which perpetuate the same interests for the same companies that wanted to hijack the government in the early 40's. Maybe the reason it isn't discussed is because the culprits are still at the helm and they wormed their way back in after Eisenhower and Kennedy through the Johnson administration and have been there ever since (except Carter, who they made to look like a fool and Reagan, who they forced to take H.W. Bush as a running mate). '63 was the rise of Federal Reserve to unprecedented prominence as well. Who is the Federal Reserve but our conspirators and those that have backed such regimes in Europe. People forget that prior to the invasion of Poland IBM had more invested in Germany than any other corporation originating in the U.S., and that Henry Ford liked what he saw in Germany as did Lindbergh and they weren't the only ones.

It seems to me we have some new hands in the mix today, but the core of the power business structure in both the U.S. and Europe are as they say in Casablanca "the usual suspects". If the threat had been removed it most certainly would have been in the history books in some discernible fashion. The fact that it's not is the surest proof that those entities are still in power.

But they didn't overthrow the government. They merely neutered it, which works out to the same effect.

(07-20-2014 10:27 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  But they didn't overthrow the government. They merely neutered it, which works out to the same effect.

Actually the deregulation of the 80's permitted the rise of multi-nationals and that coupled with the laws requiring independents to have to meet voter qualifications in all 50 states (passed under Clinton) made the viability of a non billionaire candidate practically impossible without the backing of the Democrats or Republicans. Then the purchase of political power through PAC's made it possible to simply buy both aisles in Congress. With both houses under the multi national dole and the nominee for the White House secured it was only a matter of time that enough Justices could be replaced before they gained control of that branch as well.

If we go back to the requisite number of registered voters nationwide signing a petition of candidacy and had automatic qualifying in all 50 states for those meeting that requirement then the voters would once again have a chance to unseat incumbents from both of the parties and clean House literally. Tyranny always begins with the little things being changed, the things the public has little interest in. Once the procedures are in place then anything goes.

In 1963 the move to Federal Reserve currency followed by the Federal Coinage Act of 1965 enabled those entities that underwrite the Federal Reserve to make money off of our national debt. That money was shrewdly used to purchase influence in both political camps. By the 80's party platforms were all but gone. The reason was it kept populist candidates who finished strongly from shaping the debate for the campaign. The issues of the masses then took front and center to create division. Abortion, gun laws, gay rights, and even the tea party itself became polarizing issues that led the attention of the public away from the burgeoning debt, procedural changes, treaties, and public bids.

As long as the idiots of the country knocked themselves out over prayer in schools nobody cared if the Southern Company acquired public lands which over several decades have become privatized, or public utilities like the local water departments sold to foreign interests.

Show the masses all of the sports they want and give them trivial details to fight over and you can distract them long enough to steal their very government from them.

You are right in that it was neutered, but by procedural changes. Now with 4 multinationals holding the reigns on virtually all of the news the outlook for meaningful reform and repeal of certain procedural changes will get no mention at all and your neighbor, when you inform them of what has changed, will look at you blankly as if you are the one who has lost his mind.

Decades ago a logic teacher of mine said that we would lose our country through public education and she was a consummate public school teacher. She said when we no longer cared to teach our citizens to think for themselves but rather spout answers to rote questions that end of the Republic was at hand. I'd say she nailed it. Here's to you Gertrude! You remain as the best teacher I ever had.

So what do we do now? Do we fight? No. Our kids are employed by those multi nationals, our country still has the best standard of living for one of its size. Our education system is still very good although on a steady downward trend. Our families live here and many of our family have given the ultimate sacrifice for our way of life. Like a bad cold we don't destroy the body to kill the disease. These things are cyclical and we simply out wait the corruption as like with all diseases it will eventually destroy itself. Our mission is to support the country remembering that is comprised of our neighbors, friends, and family and if the people are not like us in ethnicity I guarantee you they are like us in supporting neighbors, friends and family. It is those bonds that make us strong and must be preserved. Our task is to get to know as many of our neighbors as possible and to talk with them about the virtues we would like to see again in government, and wait. We must refuse to let the politics of petty division to distract our desire for a sense of community and we must together hold those in leadership accountable for their decisions whether the evening news points it out or not. That is what civic responsibility is all about and it's been lost in recent decades due to the movement to find jobs, and electronic devices that keep a shy society from actually meeting face to face and talking with others.

Interesting tidbit. The first and last British soldiers killed in WWI are buried about 15 feet from each other in Belgium.

(07-20-2014 10:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-20-2014 10:27 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  But they didn't overthrow the government. They merely neutered it, which works out to the same effect.

Actually the deregulation of the 80's permitted the rise of multi-nationals and that coupled with the laws requiring independents to have to meet voter qualifications in all 50 states (passed under Clinton) made the viability of a non billionaire candidate practically impossible without the backing of the Democrats or Republicans. Then the purchase of political power through PAC's made it possible to simply buy both aisles in Congress. With both houses under the multi national dole and the nominee for the White House secured it was only a matter of time that enough Justices could be replaced before they gained control of that branch as well.

If we go back to the requisite number of registered voters nationwide signing a petition of candidacy and had automatic qualifying in all 50 states for those meeting that requirement then the voters would once again have a chance to unseat incumbents from both of the parties and clean House literally. Tyranny always begins with the little things being changed, the things the public has little interest in. Once the procedures are in place then anything goes.

In 1963 the move to Federal Reserve currency followed by the Federal Coinage Act of 1965 enabled those entities that underwrite the Federal Reserve to make money off of our national debt. That money was shrewdly used to purchase influence in both political camps. By the 80's party platforms were all but gone. The reason was it kept populist candidates who finished strongly from shaping the debate for the campaign. The issues of the masses then took front and center to create division. Abortion, gun laws, gay rights, and even the tea party itself became polarizing issues that led the attention of the public away from the burgeoning debt, procedural changes, treaties, and public bids.

As long as the idiots of the country knocked themselves out over prayer in schools nobody cared if the Southern Company acquired public lands which over several decades have become privatized, or public utilities like the local water departments sold to foreign interests.

Show the masses all of the sports they want and give them trivial details to fight over and you can distract them long enough to steal their very government from them.

You are right in that it was neutered, but by procedural changes. Now with 4 multinationals holding the reigns on virtually all of the news the outlook for meaningful reform and repeal of certain procedural changes will get no mention at all and your neighbor, when you inform them of what has changed, will look at you blankly as if you are the one who has lost his mind.

Decades ago a logic teacher of mine said that we would lose our country through public education and she was a consummate public school teacher. She said when we no longer cared to teach our citizens to think for themselves but rather spout answers to rote questions that end of the Republic was at hand. I'd say she nailed it. Here's to you Gertrude! You remain as the best teacher I ever had.

So what do we do now? Do we fight? No. Our kids are employed by those multi nationals, our country still has the best standard of living for one of its size. Our education system is still very good although on a steady downward trend. Our families live here and many of our family have given the ultimate sacrifice for our way of life. Like a bad cold we don't destroy the body to kill the disease. These things are cyclical and we simply out wait the corruption as like with all diseases it will eventually destroy itself. Our mission is to support the country remembering that is comprised of our neighbors, friends, and family and if the people are not like us in ethnicity I guarantee you they are like us in supporting neighbors, friends and family. It is those bonds that make us strong and must be preserved. Our task is to get to know as many of our neighbors as possible and to talk with them about the virtues we would like to see again in government, and wait. We must refuse to let the politics of petty division to distract our desire for a sense of community and we must together hold those in leadership accountable for their decisions whether the evening news points it out or not. That is what civic responsibility is all about and it's been lost in recent decades due to the movement to find jobs, and electronic devices that keep a shy society from actually meeting face to face and talking with others.

The problem with many people is that they think that one party or the other actually cares about the issues important to them. They don't. All these issues people yammer about are merely catchphrases whose entire purpose is to keep the people distracted from the issues that really matter. I agree with your teacher completely. She nailed it.

It doesn't matter which party wins. No matter who wins, the people lose. And trying to change things is a waste of time. It's always here comes the new boss, just like the old boss. The average man doesn't stand a chance. The secret is to not let it get you down.

Illegitimi non carborundum!

(06-10-2014 02:22 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 02:14 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 11:43 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I guest lectured on the First World War at Huntingdon and I really enjoyed it.

To me, the First World War was the ending of the old and the emergence of the modern world. It is the event that has most shaped the modern world, even more so than the 2nd World War.

Funny enough, WW1 is really WW2 and WW2 is really WW3.

Wait, so what is considered WW1?

The 7 Years War

a.k.a. the French and Indian War.

Fun fact: the French and Indian War lasted 2 years longer than the Seven Years War.

Also, has anyone read the Illusion of Victory by Thomas Fleming?
Is it any good? I have the book, but have yet to read it.

(07-25-2014 06:39 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 02:22 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 02:14 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 11:43 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I guest lectured on the First World War at Huntingdon and I really enjoyed it.

To me, the First World War was the ending of the old and the emergence of the modern world. It is the event that has most shaped the modern world, even more so than the 2nd World War.

Funny enough, WW1 is really WW2 and WW2 is really WW3.

Wait, so what is considered WW1?

The 7 Years War

a.k.a. the French and Indian War.

Fun fact: the French and Indian War lasted 2 years longer than the Seven Years War.

Also, has anyone read the Illusion of Victory by Thomas Fleming?
Is it any good? I have the book, but have yet to read it.

Illusion of Victory is very well written and overall a good read, but at some points it reads like an outright attack on President Wilson. The author collects criticism from both the right and left, and a wide variety of national and international sources to portray him as an extremely incompetent figure. This treatment opened my eyes to a lot of descriptions and events I hadn't heard about in previous works on World War I and Wilson. But for me this kind of evidence wasn't successful in advancing the author's larger thesis that World War I for the United States was unecessary. I also don't feel, as the author does, that Wilson was mostly responsible for the Treaty of Versailles.